Phenom 2 at 6Ghz(!)

[classy]

Nice, but how does it perform is only thing that should be leaked

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: BLaber

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: BLaber

Originally posted by: Phynaz

Suicide run.

A demo put on for Journalists by AMD. Not all cores loaded.

Remeber the 3Ghz Phenom demo?

Man don't you get tired of bashing AMD ever , every single post of yours in AMD thread is just bal bla bla AMD SUCKS..... Bla Bla ................. :disgust:

Which part of that post is an AMD bash?

First of all pardon me for my bad english , may be bash is not the correct word for what I wanted to tell or describe..

What I really don't like is consistent negative views as reply's in every AMD thread , Ive read from Phynaz , even if there is some really encouraging news about AMD.

Your perception of the spirit of the posts may be true, that is how personal opinion works. No one can tell you your opinion is not valid.

My view is that Phynaz brings balance by providing skepticism. Note the specific items listed in his post are actually all items done by AMD, if mentioning them is considered negative then you have to wonder why AMD did them to begin with.

Is 6GHz at 1.9V with LN2 a suicide run? I think most folks would agree this is true, for what we typically use the phrase suicide run to mean AMD is definitely hosting an event in which the media are touting the overclock results of suicide runs.

AMD organized it, invited the media so we enthusiasts would be sure to hear about it, and I doubt anyone in AMD would argue 1.9V on 45nm CMOS at LN2 temps is anything but suicide run benching. Nothing wrong with suicide runs, they add valuable knowledge to the community.

Was the demo put on for journalists? Yes. Why is it good to keep this in mind (why is Phynaz mentioning it) because you should be wary of free information from anyone who is selling something that they want you to use your dollars to buy.

That is just common sense. You'd be a little wary of real-estate infomercials too. And there is history here, which we don't want to repeat for ignorance.

Were all the cores loaded? Nope. Crysis, two cores at best. And even then those two cores are not as loaded as two Prime95 threads would load the cores. AMD knows the enthusiast audience would expect Prime95 stability for any overclock to be worth talking about. If you want to compare overclocks for idle chips then add 500-1000MHz to any Intel overclock and you probably got a reasonable overclock comparison.

Again AMD did this knowing there would be criticism. Try it yourself, create a thread here telling people you got some great overclock on an Intel rig but refuse to run Prime95 and instead just tell people it's "crysis stable". The thread will fill up with helpful hints on correcting the errors of your ways

And lastly the 3GHz demo...this is relevant to this discussion because AMD did attempt to pass off Phenom as being competitively clockable (not cherry picked samples for the demo, etc) and then the results were that the chip had real clocking issues to get to 3GHz on retail samples. There was nearly zero value to the enthusiast that AMD could demo a few cherry-picked Phenoms at 3GHz...so is this 5Ghz demo a similar affair?

We don't know but sadly AMD is the one that fooled us once and we don't really want to get so easily fooled again. Skepticism is not being negative, it is using history to ensure you aren't being led around by a marketing/PR team who just likes to make smoke and mirrors to justify the existence of their own jobs regardless the damage to the rest of the company and the consumers.

 

[Phynaz]

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder

Originally posted by: JackyP

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Unspossibles! THis may match i7 at 5.3 ghz!

I hate when these kinds of numbers drop before the important stuff.

Phenom was somewhat comparable to the C2Q, the biggest holdback for it was the the C2Q was able to overclock like mad. With the possibility that the phenom II overclocks like crazy, could be comparable to Penrynn in speed, and will possibly (most likely) be cheaper then intels offerings is good news.

Somewhat comparable? Yes 80% is somewhat comparable to 100%, still it was much slower - end of story.
No one cares about overclocking in terms of market size and money, so that surely wasn't the biggest holdback, stock clock, powerconsumption and performance was, but it's still lovely to see such a nice clocking chip from AMD.

Shanghai may be cheaper to the end user, but at the cost of margins. Shanghai's die is still at least 20% bigger than penryn, monolithic and using a new process. So the chip per se is not cheaper (i.e. cheaper to produce) at all.

I really think Phenom was more competitive then you give it credit for. The biggest problem with Phenom in my eyes was the performance you got for the amount of power it consumed. Intel really hit it out of the park with the C2D, it was almost always faster then Phenom, and did so using less power.

I don't know the die sizes off the top of my head, but my guess is a 45nm Denab isn't much bigger in size then two Penryns added togeter for the Intel quad.

Also, I think AMD has shown that they can have a pretty good product that isn't the absolute fastest but still fast enough so long as it's priced right. Take a look at the Radeon 4850/4870.

You've pretty much nailed it.

Will it be the highest performing x86 cpu out there? Of course not.
Will it be in the ball park? Yes, it will.
Will it be priced less than Intel? Once again yes.
Will it be good enough for 90% of computer users? Yep.

Will it be good enough to keep AMD in business? Who knows?

 

[BLaber]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: BLaber

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: BLaber

Originally posted by: Phynaz

Suicide run.

A demo put on for Journalists by AMD. Not all cores loaded.

Remeber the 3Ghz Phenom demo?

Man don't you get tired of bashing AMD ever , every single post of yours in AMD thread is just bal bla bla AMD SUCKS..... Bla Bla ................. :disgust:

Which part of that post is an AMD bash?

First of all pardon me for my bad english , may be bash is not the correct word for what I wanted to tell or describe..

What I really don't like is consistent negative views as reply's in every AMD thread , Ive read from Phynaz , even if there is some really encouraging news about AMD.

Your perception of the spirit of the posts may be true, that is how personal opinion works. No one can tell you your opinion is not valid.

My view is that Phynaz brings balance by providing skepticism. Note the specific items listed in his post are actually all items done by AMD, if mentioning them is considered negative then you have to wonder why AMD did them to begin with.

Is 6GHz at 1.9V with LN2 a suicide run? I think most folks would agree this is true, for what we typically use the phrase suicide run to mean AMD is definitely hosting an event in which the media are touting the overclock results of suicide runs.

AMD organized it, invited the media so we enthusiasts would be sure to hear about it, and I doubt anyone in AMD would argue 1.9V on 45nm CMOS at LN2 temps is anything but suicide run benching. Nothing wrong with suicide runs, they add valuable knowledge to the community.

Was the demo put on for journalists? Yes. Why is it good to keep this in mind (why is Phynaz mentioning it) because you should be wary of free information from anyone who is selling something that they want you to use your dollars to buy.

That is just common sense. You'd be a little wary of real-estate infomercials too. And there is history here, which we don't want to repeat for ignorance.

Were all the cores loaded? Nope. Crysis, two cores at best. And even then those two cores are not as loaded as two Prime95 threads would load the cores. AMD knows the enthusiast audience would expect Prime95 stability for any overclock to be worth talking about. If you want to compare overclocks for idle chips then add 500-1000MHz to any Intel overclock and you probab:laugh:ly got a reasonable overclock comparison.

Again AMD did this knowing there would be criticism. Try it yourself, create a thread here telling people you got some great overclock on an Intel rig but refuse to run Prime95 and instead just tell people it's "crysis stable". The thread will fill up with helpful hints on correcting the errors of your ways

And lastly the 3GHz demo...this is relevant to this discussion because AMD did attempt to pass off Phenom as being competitively clockable (not cherry picked samples for the demo, etc) and then the results were that the chip had real clocking issues to get to 3GHz on retail samples. There was nearly zero value to the enthusiast that AMD could demo a few cherry-picked Phenoms at 3GHz...so is this 5Ghz demo a similar affair?

We don't know but sadly AMD is the one that fooled us once and we don't really want to get so easily fooled again. Skepticism is not being negative, it is using history to ensure you aren't being led around by a marketing/PR team who just likes to make smoke and mirrors to justify the existence of their own jobs regardless the damage to the rest of the company and the consumers.

Yup I got your point , but I still believe if it was Skepticism that was intended , but not at least not in about every single reply LOL

And one more thing IDC, your reply's are REALLY BIG , YOU MUST BE FOND OF TYPING :laugh:

 

[Phynaz]

Edit:
Nevermind everything I wrote here, I thought the Sun servers I've been buying were Opteron based. Turns out the vast majority have been Sparc based.

I guess I haven't been buying as many Opteron systems as I thought.

 

[piesquared]

Originally posted by: classy
Nice, but how does it perform is only thing that should be leaked

Why let the cat out of the bag, and lay all your cards on the table at once? Maybe they'll wait to see what kind of FUD the Intel marketing machine will respond with.

 

[dmens]

Originally posted by: piesquared
Why let the cat out of the bag, and lay all your cards on the table at once? Maybe they'll wait to see what kind of FUD the Intel marketing machine will respond with.

i dunno, intel never demo'ed any ridiculous suicide overclocks at an official gathering. that kind of garbage is definitive FUD.

this demo stinks of desperation IMO.

 

[piesquared]

Originally posted by: dmens

Originally posted by: piesquared
Why let the cat out of the bag, and lay all your cards on the table at once? Maybe they'll wait to see what kind of FUD the Intel marketing machine will respond with.

i dunno, intel never demo'ed any ridiculous suicide overclocks at an official gathering. that kind of garbage is definitive FUD.

this demo stinks of desperation IMO.

And so it begins.

 

[CTho9305]

Originally posted by: dmens

Originally posted by: piesquared
Why let the cat out of the bag, and lay all your cards on the table at once? Maybe they'll wait to see what kind of FUD the Intel marketing machine will respond with.

i dunno, intel never demo'ed any ridiculous suicide overclocks at an official gathering. that kind of garbage is definitive FUD.

this demo stinks of desperation IMO.

Sandpile says AMD has been doing super-cooled demos since at least April 1999 (1 GHz)...

 

[Raqia]

Originally posted by: dmens

Originally posted by: piesquared
Why let the cat out of the bag, and lay all your cards on the table at once? Maybe they'll wait to see what kind of FUD the Intel marketing machine will respond with.

i dunno, intel never demo'ed any ridiculous suicide overclocks at an official gathering. that kind of garbage is definitive FUD.

this demo stinks of desperation IMO.

See:

http://www.guru3d.com/news/core-i7-singapore/

AMD is probably doing better this time since there's a lot of third party verification that Shanghai / Phenom II are good parts. I'll still wait for the launch launch though.

 

[Gikaseixas]

4.0 ghz on air sounds great, i'll wait for that ship for sure.

 

[Keysplayr]

Hmmmm. Reading all the above posts, I would agree that most of us are skeptical of all this 6GHz under LN2 as the norm. But even so, 6GHz, even if only 2 cores were pegged, is very damn impressive. I have a PhenomX4 9550 in this really freaking beautiful M3N-HT Deluxe. But it feels crippled with this CPU in it. I get 10 hrs. stable in Orthos, but I can't get this thing over stable even at 2.5 GHz in Crysis:Warhead. I get blue screens. So it feels like a true "secondary" machine. Know what I mean?

I hear with a BIOS update, I can drop a Deneb in this thing. So, that is why I am hoping these 4GHz on good air cooling is somewhat accurate. I feel like I'm wasting this motherboard on this Phenom. IMHO.

 

[JackyP]

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder

Originally posted by: JackyP

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Unspossibles! THis may match i7 at 5.3 ghz!

I hate when these kinds of numbers drop before the important stuff.

Phenom was somewhat comparable to the C2Q, the biggest holdback for it was the the C2Q was able to overclock like mad. With the possibility that the phenom II overclocks like crazy, could be comparable to Penrynn in speed, and will possibly (most likely) be cheaper then intels offerings is good news.

Somewhat comparable? Yes 80% is somewhat comparable to 100%, still it was much slower - end of story.
No one cares about overclocking in terms of market size and money, so that surely wasn't the biggest holdback, stock clock, powerconsumption and performance was, but it's still lovely to see such a nice clocking chip from AMD.

Shanghai may be cheaper to the end user, but at the cost of margins. Shanghai's die is still at least 20% bigger than penryn, monolithic and using a new process. So the chip per se is not cheaper (i.e. cheaper to produce) at all.

I really think Phenom was more competitive then you give it credit for. The biggest problem with Phenom in my eyes was the performance you got for the amount of power it consumed. Intel really hit it out of the park with the C2D, it was almost always faster then Phenom, and did so using less power.

True, but I'm a sceptic, though. A follower of the scientific method.

I don't know the die sizes off the top of my head, but my guess is a 45nm Denab isn't much bigger in size then two Penryns added togeter for the Intel quad.

But I do, that's why I mentioned it. 243mm² (263mm² including test logic, don't know if this makes it into the final product). Penryn 2*107mm².
I think that the Intel "glue approach" has some advantages and drawbacks when it comes to yields (one error does not kill your 214mm² chip, just a 107mm² one, but the glue is not free either).

Also, I think AMD has shown that they can have a pretty good product that isn't the absolute fastest but still fast enough so long as it's priced right. Take a look at the Radeon 4850/4870.

I'm not considering price for the end-user, but for the company. They could give chips away for free if they wanted to, still below certain margins they cannot survive long term, that's why I mention die size.

80% Try 85-90% at the same clock speed, with a lower price (per cpu and whole system). I just ran the numbers, 77% was the absolute lowest it did, and it quite a few cases it was 95% of the speed of a Q6600 at the same clock speed (the 9700 that is).

Yes its slower, however you are paying less for it and the entire system. Does it cost AMD more to produce a CPU, probably, But I wasn't speaking about their benefits as the producer.

I was talking about penryn, thank you for proving my point. There are hundreds of reviews out there, I think -20% for barcelona is even pretty generous. So much for beating a dead horse, I just don't like lies...
Actually I have been talking about the "benefits to the producer". If AMD is broke you won't get anymore chips from them, remember this very well.

Tough times are ahead, let's hope this is enough to keep them afloat.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: BLaber
And one more thing IDC, your reply's are REALLY BIG , YOU MUST BE FOUND OF TYPING :laugh:

Originally posted by: Abraham Lincoln
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.

I'm more of a "remove all doubt" kinda guy So I gots to open my mouth real wide like all the time :laugh:

 

[Zstream]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: BLaber

Originally posted by: Phynaz

Suicide run.

A demo put on for Journalists by AMD. Not all cores loaded.

Remeber the 3Ghz Phenom demo?

Man don't you get tired of bashing AMD ever , every single post of yours in AMD thread is just bal bla bla AMD SUCKS..... Bla Bla ................. :disgust:

Where does he say AMD sucks in his post you just quoted? Oh, that's right. He didn't. I agree with him that the 6GHz run at 1.9v was a suicide run. In other words, they just wanted to see how high they could go and didn't care about burning up the chip. Suicide run.

At any rate, you'll have to wear some thicker skin for a bit longer, at least until AMD proves themselves competitive again with Deneb/Shanghai. So far, if these cores are not absolute maraschino cherries ( I think they just might be, don't you?), AMD is looking to get back into the game. Well see soon enough. I'm in the market for a new Deneb if my mobo supports it.

Everyone knows it is a suicide run, look at the i7 suicide runs already. Look at every single LN2 cooling system.

Are you honestly not telling us the obvious? The fact of the matter is that Phynaz hangs around every AMD thread and is always negative. Since a company sponsoring you is AMD's competitor I would not expect you to see clearly.

To Idontcare, skepticism has its place in forums. To come out right and place a negative tone in every thread is silly. His previous post already show he is anti-amd. I think everyone understands what 1 + 1 is...

 

[nerp]

AMD kicks ass. WOOOHOOO!

 

[Kraeoss]

Originally posted by: nerp
AMD kicks ass. WOOOHOOO!

i coulnt have said it better :sun::thumbsup:

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: BLaber
And one more thing IDC, your reply's are REALLY BIG , YOU MUST BE FOUND OF TYPING :laugh:

Originally posted by: Abraham Lincoln
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.

I'm more of a "remove all doubt" kinda guy So I gots to open my mouth real wide like all the time :laugh:

YOU FOOL!

:evil:

J/K

Edit: I just hit 1400 post. I want my life back dammit!

 

[dmens]

Originally posted by: Raqia
See:

http://www.guru3d.com/news/core-i7-singapore/

AMD is probably doing better this time since there's a lot of third party verification that Shanghai / Phenom II are good parts. I'll still wait for the launch launch though.

the only reason i view this as desperation is because of these widely publicized demos and this slide: http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/2238/phen24zi1.jpg

otherwise it'd be just another publicity stunt. so-called headroom is entirely part dependent, making claims on headroom is by definition highly misleading.

 

[error8]

Originally posted by: soonerproud

Edit: I just hit 1400 post. I want my life back dammit!

:laugh:

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: nerp
AMD kicks ass. WOOOHOOO!

Oh god look how fast they come out of the woodwork....

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: soonerproud
Edit: I just hit 1400 post. I want my life back dammit!

dont make us 5k+ post people pwn you.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: nerp
AMD kicks ass. WOOOHOOO!

Oh god look how fast they come out of the woodwork....

It's definitely entropic, but as with any gas expanding in a vacuum is there any PV work being done?

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Originally posted by: aigomorla

Originally posted by: soonerproud
Edit: I just hit 1400 post. I want my life back dammit!

dont make us 5k+ post people pwn you.

Lulz, he certainly got there faster than me.

PS - Blaber - it's fond...

 

[Kraeoss]

gradually rolling away from topic... lol :laugh: