Phenom II x4 960T Zosma Bottlenecking AMD Radeon HD 7850 OC for Gaming?

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alyarb

Platinum Member
Jan 25, 2009
2,444
0
76
He's not trolling, he is just using an RTS example to counter an FPS argument.

Since the OP has already acquired AMD hardware we should all get back to the originally intended discussion which is overclocking the Zosma.

As enough of the previously cited benchmarks will show, he doesn't stand much increase from unlocking additional cores but he definitely needs to go for the max frequency he can get with 1.45v.

No one should really be wasting their time discussing AMD vs intel IPC or other baseline metrics. Zosma is a good value proposition and now needs an OC.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,361
136

pcsavvy

Senior member
Jan 27, 2006
298
0
0
Wow, the op just asked if a 960T would be the bottleneck for a AMD 7850OC graphics card for certian games. The contesting fanboys come out to debate.

OP

A 960T combined with a 7850OC should have no problems playing those games. A 960t can be o/c and unlocked with a bit of luck so for the money, I say go for it.

I personally am getting tired of folks getting personal and bitter about how great Intel is.

Yes WE KNOW INTEL IS A GREAT CHIP IF YOU HAVE THE BUDGET!!!

If you are on a tight budget, for a gamer, it is far better to put the most money on GPU and balance it out with a m/b and cpu that can overclock. It is no good to get a budget cpu and m/b with a high end gpu and try to game like the high enders.

It seems like certain people are of the belief that AMD is as bad as the old Intel Celerons.
I use the old Intel Celerons at work and let me state categorically that my home computer can do stuff so much faster and smoother and it is definately not a high end gaming monster machine.
 

Rvenger

Elite Member <br> Super Moderator <br> Video Cards
Apr 6, 2004
6,283
5
81
If the OP overclocks the 960t then it will do just fine. I can't imagine it bottlenecking a 7850 once overclocked. Maybe a GTX680 or a 7970.
 

KingFatty

Diamond Member
Dec 29, 2010
3,034
1
81
Also keep in mind, that Starcraft II will show a big improvement on AMD processors when you overclock the CPU-NB.

Almost every chart misses this. so even if you look at performance of a faster AMD CPU to try to guesstimate how a slower AMD CPU would perform is overclocked, you are still missing the subtlety that it would do even better if you also overclock the CPU-NB.

So Starcraft II, perhaps the app that paints the worst possible picture for AMD CPUs, is not as bad as it seems when you factor for CPU-NB overclocks that all the review sites missed, even when doing overclocks.
 

inf64

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2011
3,765
4,223
136
Pretty good review of FX8150/FX4170/3770K performance in games(they used 7970). Their conclusion is spot on:
Conclusion

As you can see from those results, the processor doesn't matter at all when it comes to graphics card limited games/benchmarks. But then when the graphics card is not the bottleneck we notice big differences. A closer look at the synthetic benchmarks shows that there is only one processor benchmark where the CPUs performance comes into the game. In fact it is 3DMark Vantage where you can see a huge difference between the Core i7-3770K and the FX-4170/FX-8150. Thread count didn't matter as both processors have a total of eight, so either Intel's processor is well optimized or 3DMark Vantage is an Intel Benchmark. Otherwise there is almost no difference at all, for 3DMark11 the score was 0.7 % different, under Unigine Heaven the difference was 0.5 % for the FX-8150 over the Intel processor.

Shifting the focus to games there is also a noticeable increase in performance in some cases and nothing at all - or very little - in other cases. In our performance rating we saw that the Core i7-3770K was almost 23 percent faster than the FX-8150 on average. With 0.73 percent there is almost no advantage for the Intel CPU in Alien vs Predator. In Crysis 2 you can see that the FX-8150 is about 2 percent behind. Then comes BattleField 3, S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and Dragon Age II where Intel is leading by 6 percent for the first two and 8 percent for the last one. But now there are the big numbers with games such as Batman: Arkham City, DIRT 2, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, StarCraft II and The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim that seems to be well optimised for Intel. Both processors having the same thread count and the same working frequency will all cores under load then this big difference is explained by a very efficient processor architecture or a well optimized game for it. Going to the results now you can see a gap of 17.6 % between the two processors under Batman, 15 % under DIRT 2, 30 % for Call of Duty, 60 % for Skyrim and finally a huge 84 % under StarCraft II (such strategy game benefits more from a processor upgrade than a very high end graphics card).

Not much to say regarding the power consumption where the i7 3770K was 15 Watts more efficient in idle and 30 Watts under GPU load (only one processor thread is being used at 100 %). Now if we take a look at the performance/price ratio it is interesting to see that for a processor that brings only 1.23 times the performance of the FX-8150 under games you will have to pay 1.62 times as much. Due to very few optimized games for more than two/four threads (which means games will scale more with the processor frequency and not the amount of cores/threads) the difference in performance between the FX-8150 and the FX-4170 is 0.7 %. Is it worth 1.42x the price? We don't think so! Therefore the performance/price of the FX-8150 is very bad and very good for the FX-4170. Intel's i7 3770K's performance/price stays the worse at the moment.
There you have it. Intel does make a difference in select few games(skyrim,starcraft) but overall you pay much more for average of 23% more performance and 30W less power draw. FX4170 looks even better than both chips since it costs the fraction of 3770K and is ~24% slower across all gaming benchmarks.
 
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minitron

Member
Mar 12, 2012
124
0
0
Wow, the op just asked if a 960T would be the bottleneck for a AMD 7850OC graphics card for certian games. The contesting fanboys come out to debate.

OP

A 960T combined with a 7850OC should have no problems playing those games. A 960t can be o/c and unlocked with a bit of luck so for the money, I say go for it.

I personally am getting tired of folks getting personal and bitter about how great Intel is.

Yes WE KNOW INTEL IS A GREAT CHIP IF YOU HAVE THE BUDGET!!!

If you are on a tight budget, for a gamer, it is far better to put the most money on GPU and balance it out with a m/b and cpu that can overclock. It is no good to get a budget cpu and m/b with a high end gpu and try to game like the high enders.

It seems like certain people are of the belief that AMD is as bad as the old Intel Celerons.
I use the old Intel Celerons at work and let me state categorically that my home computer can do stuff so much faster and smoother and it is definately not a high end gaming monster machine.
Actually, Sandy Bridge Celerons match AMD chips in performance, for a fraction of the cost, as shown in previous benchmarks.

For the same or less cost as AMD, you can get a better performing Intel. This is true at every price point.

What's the point of overclocking when your performance is still slower than the stock Intel chip.
If the OP overclocks the 960t then it will do just fine. I can't imagine it bottlenecking a 7850 once overclocked. Maybe a GTX680 or a 7970.
Why can't you imagine this? I already showed a chart of AMD chips bottlenecking a 5870.

Also keep in mind, that Starcraft II will show a big improvement on AMD processors when you overclock the CPU-NB.

Almost every chart misses this. so even if you look at performance of a faster AMD CPU to try to guesstimate how a slower AMD CPU would perform is overclocked, you are still missing the subtlety that it would do even better if you also overclock the CPU-NB.

So Starcraft II, perhaps the app that paints the worst possible picture for AMD CPUs, is not as bad as it seems when you factor for CPU-NB overclocks that all the review sites missed, even when doing overclocks.
They did overclock the NB and AMD chips still get crushed by Intel.
Pretty good review of FX8150/FX4170/3770K performance in games. Their conclusion is spot on:


There you have it. Intel does make a difference in select few games(skyrim,starcraft) but overall you pay much more for average of 23% more performance and 30W less power draw. FX4170 looks even better than both chips since it costs the fraction of 3770K and is ~24% slower across all gaming benchmarks.
According to this review the FX-8150 is a better buy than the i7-3770K. That's a joke. Not to mention the lack of i3 and i5s for comparisons. They have a 80% difference in SCII and they claim this. I'll stick with Anand's, Tom's, TPU, etc. Keep digging up these .ch review sites or personal fanboy blogs.

No matter what the OP does with that chip, it's inferior to an i3. If he's going to spend money overclocking it such as getting a new cooler or motherboard as suggested by AMD fanboys, he's better off going Intel.
 
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inf64

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2011
3,765
4,223
136
@minitrol

Ok sir,I've supplied the link to review which is perfectly in line with other reviews out there. It even shows the same % difference in those few titles such as skyrim or starcraft. The difference overall is 23% between 4170 and 3770K. If one needs to play ONLY those few games then by all means let him pay 320+$ on CPU and 150+$ on motherboard. The rest can buy 4170 and be good for 2.3x less money.
 

Makaveli

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2002
4,761
1,160
136
Both of you have some valid points but you are starting to derail this thread the OP isn't going to switch to an Intel build. Take it to PM's!
 

Rifter

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,522
751
126
Wow what a derailment!



But more to the point it cant be argued that AMD CPU's do not hold back mid to top end current gen GPU's, they just do. There is 100's of graphs/articles/screenshots what have you that will show this to be true, some of which are posted above. What matters is if its going to be in the games you play. Since you are using a 120hz monitor its going to be even more important as you are going to be aiming for a steady 120FPS instead of 60FPS. Personally i would go with a Intel CPU, as i dont like bottlenecks if i can avoid them and the price difference is not more than a few bucks.

Do i think its going to be a end of he world difference? not unless you play alot of CPU dependant games.
 

Mallibu

Senior member
Jun 20, 2011
243
0
0
My Phenom II 965 was bottlenecking me at more than half the games I played with a single GTX 570.
You're in even worst position, since you're aiming for 120 fps not 60.
 

Olikan

Platinum Member
Sep 23, 2011
2,023
275
126
OP...your cpu will baraly matters on 1920x1080...

it's your gpu, while it's good for 60 fps, it don't have the horse power for 120
 

Mallibu

Senior member
Jun 20, 2011
243
0
0
OP...your cpu will baraly matters on 1920x1080...

it's your gpu, while it's good for 60 fps, it don't have the horse power for 120

Of course it matters. The required CPU horsepower is the same in every resolution, it's just that the GPU becomes the more limiting factor. But that's not the case in A LOT of games nowadays that are console ports (like 80% of available games?) or optimised for low end (Diablo 3).
I had also the impression that AMD vs Intel CPUs made little difference in gaming but after going from Phenom -> i5 2500 I'd say that the difference is not as small as AMD fanboys are trying to convince us.
And most certainly if I had a 120 hz screen like the op, Sandy Bridge / Ivy bridge is the only path I'd look.
 

KingFatty

Diamond Member
Dec 29, 2010
3,034
1
81
I think the importance of a fast CPU is magnified when you have a GPU with the horsepower to do 120 Hz and a display to show off that 120 Hz.
 

Makaveli

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2002
4,761
1,160
136
I think the importance of a fast CPU is magnified when you have a GPU with the horsepower to do 120 Hz and a display to show off that 120 Hz.

Agreed I would think SLI and Xfire would be needed to push a constant 120fps in most games.

Which will push the bottleneck back towards the Cpu.
 

Olikan

Platinum Member
Sep 23, 2011
2,023
275
126
Of course it matters. The required CPU horsepower is the same in every resolution, it's just that the GPU becomes the more limiting factor. But that's not the case in A LOT of games nowadays that are console ports (like 80% of available games?) or optimised for low end (Diablo 3).
I had also the impression that AMD vs Intel CPUs made little difference in gaming but after going from Phenom -> i5 2500 I'd say that the difference is not as small as AMD fanboys are trying to convince us.
And most certainly if I had a 120 hz screen like the op, Sandy Bridge / Ivy bridge is the only path I'd look.

no...it doesn't matter, even if he had a ivy at @6Ghz and the 7850 @1.3Ghz...he won't reach 120Fps...

he needs a crosfire setup first, and then he can trade the cpu if needed...
buying the cpu first is a total waste of money
 

minitron

Member
Mar 12, 2012
124
0
0
I already showed AMD chips bottlenecking a single HD 5870. The bottleneck exists in CPU-dependent games even with a single mid-ranged card.

He already has a bottleneck in CPU-dependent games and will always have a bottleneck with AMD chips regardless of overclock. Sorry fanboys, deal with the facts.

Time for the dead horse:
No matter what the OP does with that chip, it's inferior to an i3. If he's going to spend money overclocking it such as getting a new cooler or motherboard as suggested by AMD fanboys, he's better off going Intel.

Basically, i3 > anything from AMD overclocked or otherwise. It'll cost less too.
 
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Makaveli

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2002
4,761
1,160
136
I already showed AMD chips bottlenecking a single HD 5870. The bottleneck exists in CPU-dependent games even with a single mid-ranged card.

He already has a bottleneck in CPU-dependent games and will always have a bottleneck with AMD chips regardless of overclock. Sorry fanboys, deal with the facts.

Time for the dead horse:
No matter what the OP does with that chip, it's inferior to an i3. If he's going to spend money overclocking it such as getting a new cooler or motherboard as suggested by AMD fanboys, he's better off going Intel.

Basically, i3 > anything from AMD overclocked or otherwise. It'll cost less too.

Ok we get it.

You have made your point Amd = bottleneck do not use!

Instead of repeating that over and over can you contribute anything else?
 
Aug 11, 2008
10,451
642
126
Ok we get it.

You have made your point Amd = bottleneck do not use!

Instead of repeating that over and over can you contribute anything else?


Well, maybe he feels it necessary to refute the multitude of posters who continue to flood these forums blindly supporting AMD, and use GPU limited graphs to supposedly evaluate CPU performance.

All the AMD proponents that insist AMD is a better value than intel should look at Tom's best CPUs for the money sometime. Well, I am sure they have looked at it, but they just refuse to acknowledge the fact that right now intel is superior in absolute performance, performance per dollar, and performance per watt at every price point. Only one AMD cpu appears on the list and that is only as an honorable mention.
 
Aug 11, 2008
10,451
642
126
Wow, the op just asked if a 960T would be the bottleneck for a AMD 7850OC graphics card for certian games. The contesting fanboys come out to debate.

OP

A 960T combined with a 7850OC should have no problems playing those games. A 960t can be o/c and unlocked with a bit of luck so for the money, I say go for it.

I personally am getting tired of folks getting personal and bitter about how great Intel is.

Yes WE KNOW INTEL IS A GREAT CHIP IF YOU HAVE THE BUDGET!!!

If you are on a tight budget, for a gamer, it is far better to put the most money on GPU and balance it out with a m/b and cpu that can overclock. It is no good to get a budget cpu and m/b with a high end gpu and try to game like the high enders.

It seems like certain people are of the belief that AMD is as bad as the old Intel Celerons.
I use the old Intel Celerons at work and let me state categorically that my home computer can do stuff so much faster and smoother and it is definately not a high end gaming monster machine.

How did old celerons get into this discussion?? Are people so desperate to find something to criticize about intel that they bring up that old chip? And a 100.00 i3 (or maybe even an 80.00 SB pentium) will beat any amd stock processor in most games. The idea that intel is only good for gaming at the high end is no longer valid.
 

Olikan

Platinum Member
Sep 23, 2011
2,023
275
126
I already showed AMD chips bottlenecking a single HD 5870. The bottleneck exists in CPU-dependent games even with a single mid-ranged card.

yes, spend 250 bucks on a cpu to get 10-20% fps more

buy a second 7850 and you frames double *at many games*

your idea is gonna do wonders for the OP
 

minitron

Member
Mar 12, 2012
124
0
0
yes, spend 250 bucks on a cpu to get 10-20% fps more

buy a second 7850 and you frames double *at many games*

your idea is gonna do wonders for the OP
In the previous bench of WoW from Tom's I posted the SB has a 33% increase in FPS compared to FX-8150 and Phenom II X4 980 at 1920x1080 with 8x AA. That was average FPS and minimum FPS where Intel has an even bigger advantage.

In SCII, a highly CPU-dependent game, the i5-2400 is 64% faster in minimum fps than either the 980 or 1090. Adding a second would do nothing in these cases. It's laughable that AMD fanboys are now suggesting getting 7850s in crossfire on a AMD chip.

AMD fanboys: "but but but nobody plays Blizzard games!" or "they must be poorly coded console ports."
 
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Olikan

Platinum Member
Sep 23, 2011
2,023
275
126
In the previous bench of WoW from Tom's I posted the SB has a 33% increase in FPS compared to FX-8150 and Phenom II X4 980 at 1920x1080 with 8x AA. That was average FPS and minimum FPS where Intel has an even bigger advantage.

In SCII, a highly CPU-dependent game, the i5-2400 is 64% faster in minimum fps than either the 980 or 1090. Adding a second would do nothing in these cases. It's laughable that AMD fanboys are now suggesting getting 7850s in crossfire on a AMD chip.

AMD fanboys: "but but but nobody plays Blizzard games!" or "they must be poorly coded console ports."

LOL!
the OP don't play any blizzard games... besides D3
 
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