Phenom II x4 960T Zosma Bottlenecking AMD Radeon HD 7850 OC for Gaming?

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AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,361
136
In the previous bench of WoW from Tom's I posted the SB has a 33% increase in FPS compared to FX-8150 and Phenom II X4 980 at 1920x1080 with 8x AA. That was average FPS and minimum FPS where Intel has an even bigger advantage.

In SCII, a highly CPU-dependent game, the i5-2400 is 64% faster in minimum fps than either the 980 or 1090. Adding a second would do nothing in these cases. It's laughable that AMD fanboys are now suggesting getting 7850s in crossfire on a AMD chip.

AMD fanboys: "but but but nobody plays Blizzard games!" or "they must be poorly coded console ports."

Basically the $$ I saved going with the Phenom II x4 960T Zosma over a Core i5-2500k / i5-3570k I spent on getting a better video card (ATI 7850). I plan to play recent games such as:

- Diablo 3
- Battlefield 3
- Guild Wars 2


on a 120Hz 24" monitor @ 1920x1080 res.

Bottom-line is, will the AMD Phenom II x4 960T Zosma bottleneck a ATI 7850 (factory-OC) in the above 3 games @ 1920x1080 res (I have a 120Hz monitor so the higher FPS the better)?

I dont see the OP planing playing WoW or SC II, dont you think you have trolled much yet ???

You really dont contribute anything in this topic. The OP specifically asked about Diablo III, BF3 and GuidWars II on a 120Hz monitor. Hes HD7850 will be the limiting factor and not the CPU in those games.

I know it doesn't compute for you that an AMD CPU would not actually be a bottleneck in a game but that's life, not everyone playing SCII, WoW or Skyrim, get used to it.
 
Dec 30, 2004
12,554
2
76
I'm not sure if this is the case with Zosma but with Rana and Callisto the additional cores could cost you up to 300 MHz off your max stable overclock, so do your testing either way but I would favor a higher frequency over additional cores.

intersting, weird, that surprises me
 

Makaveli

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2002
4,760
1,159
136
I dont see the OP planing playing WoW or SC II, dont you think you have trolled much yet ???

You really dont contribute anything in this topic. The OP specifically asked about Diablo III, BF3 and GuidWars II on a 120Hz monitor. Hes HD7850 will be the limiting factor and not the CPU in those games.

I know it doesn't compute for you that an AMD CPU would not actually be a bottleneck in a game but that's life, not everyone playing SCII, WoW or Skyrim, get used to it.

Agreed.

With the 3 games listed the only one to worry about is BF3 and people have already posted in this thread with his same cpu saying its playable and they have no issues.

All the other games he listed are cpu limited but the OP isn't playing them so to bring them up in this thread is pointless.
 

inf64

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2011
3,764
4,223
136
Agreed.

With the 3 games listed the only one to worry about is BF3 and people have already posted in this thread with his same cpu saying its playable and they have no issues.

All the other games he listed are cpu limited but the OP isn't playing them so to bring them up in this thread is pointless.
I appreciate the voice of reason and your patience with that guy but you are wasting your time posting in this thread. He will just reply the same way and the thread will go on and on and on.
 

minitron

Member
Mar 12, 2012
124
0
0
I dont see the OP planing playing WoW or SC II, dont you think you have trolled much yet ???

You really dont contribute anything in this topic. The OP specifically asked about Diablo III, BF3 and GuidWars II on a 120Hz monitor. Hes HD7850 will be the limiting factor and not the CPU in those games.

I know it doesn't compute for you that an AMD CPU would not actually be a bottleneck in a game but that's life, not everyone playing SCII, WoW or Skyrim, get used to it.
You have a blog that says the i7-920 at is a better gaming CPU than i5-2500K. That's a joke. I think we can completely disregard anything you say. Your previous post about your blog was laughed out of these forums.

Again, BF3 MP is CPU-dependent and his CPU is the bottleneck. Get over it fanboys.

Apparently AMD fanboys also missed the point that pushing 120 fps requires a lot more processing power than pushing 60 fps.

Time for the dead horse:
No matter what the OP does with that chip, it's inferior to an i3. If he's going to spend money overclocking it such as getting a new cooler or motherboard as suggested by AMD fanboys, he's better off going Intel.

Basically, i3 > anything from AMD overclocked or otherwise. It'll cost less too.
 

Durvelle27

Diamond Member
Jun 3, 2012
4,102
0
0
You have a blog that says the i7-920 at is a better gaming CPU than i5-2500K. That's a joke. I think we can completely disregard anything you say. Your previous post about your blog was laughed out of these forums.

Again, BF3 MP is CPU-dependent and his CPU is the bottleneck. Get over it fanboys.

Apparently AMD fanboys also missed the point that pushing 120 fps requires a lot more processing power than pushing 60 fps.

Time for the dead horse:
No matter what the OP does with that chip, it's inferior to an i3. If he's going to spend money overclocking it such as getting a new cooler or motherboard as suggested by AMD fanboys, he's better off going Intel.

Basically, i3 > anything from AMD overclocked or otherwise. It'll cost less too.

open your eyes ? i3 is not faster than a 960t especially if unlocked ? BF3 would benefit from x6 six cores vs 2
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
Didn't someone post a multiplayer BF3 CPU benchmark link in a past thread, I think it was a Dutch or Swedish site or something? I don't remember the numbers, but the dual core AMD chip was unable to play, the quad AMD was not too far behind a 2500k, and the 1100T/8150 were as fast to faster than the 2500... if I recall correctly. I think we can all agree an i3 is not faster than the i5 2500k. Even if the 960 didn't unlock, it may be faster than an i3 in multiplayer.

I'll see if I can dig up that site.
 

minitron

Member
Mar 12, 2012
124
0
0
An i3 is faster than Phenom II X4. Don't get butthurt at the facts.

Just because BF3 loads 6 threads doesn't mean it's optimized for 6 cores, it's just how Windows distributes the load.

In addition, I don't care too much for the i3. I think it's a piece of crap, it just so happens AMD chips are even crappier and aren't any cheaper.
 
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Durvelle27

Diamond Member
Jun 3, 2012
4,102
0
0
An i3 is faster than Phenom II X4. Don't get butthurt at the facts.

Just because BF3 loads 6 threads doesn't mean it's optimized for 6 cores, it's just how Windows distributes the load.

In addition, I don't care too much for the i3. I think it's a piece of crap, it just so happens AMD chips are even crappier and aren't any cheaper.

ok im not gonna argue with you. Can't teach this guy how to fish ?


http://www.techspot.com/review/458-battlefield-3-performance/page7.html

http://www.sweclockers.com/artikel/14650-prestandaanalys-battlefield-3/5#pagehead

 
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SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
An i3 is faster than Phenom II X4. Don't get butthurt at the facts.

Just because BF3 loads 6 threads doesn't mean it's optimized for 6 cores, it's just how Windows distributes the load.

In addition, I don't care too much for the i3. I think it's a piece of crap, it just so happens AMD chips are even crappier and aren't any cheaper.


I think this is the link I was looking for:

http://www.sweclockers.com/artikel/14650-prestandaanalys-battlefield-3/5#pagehead


Seeing as he's using a 7850, what many of us said would appear to be true, the 960T will be fine, especially if unlocked.

No one but you is acting 'butt hurt'. You came in this thread trying to crusade against something no one ever said... that the Phenom II is better than Intel chips. Plenty of people said it should be good enough for a 7850. Do you think the PhII will be more limiting in hitting 120Hz than the 7850? Then you starting ranting and raving about games that the OP never mentioned. Anyone who suggests that the 960T should work ok for the OP you want to label a fanboy. You've trolled enough here, move on, you have other threads to try and troll and derail, don't you?
 

pcsavvy

Senior member
Jan 27, 2006
298
0
0
When I mentioned the Celeron in my earlier post I was NOT referring to the SB or IB Celerons, I was referring to even older Celerons. The ones that could not even run a basic rig. I was not criticizing the recent Intel releases.
I was referring to those overboard reactions that people seem to have if someone mentions AMD. Making it sound like AMD is slower than molasses in January or some such nonsense and diverting the thread from what the op was asking.
 

minitron

Member
Mar 12, 2012
124
0
0
According to this the A8 is faster than a 2500K. LAWL.

I think this is the link I was looking for:

http://www.sweclockers.com/artikel/14650-prestandaanalys-battlefield-3/5#pagehead


Seeing as he's using a 7850, what many of us said would appear to be true, the 960T will be fine, especially if unlocked.

No one but you is acting 'butt hurt'. You came in this thread trying to crusade against something no one ever said... that the Phenom II is better than Intel chips. Plenty of people said it should be good enough for a 7850. Do you think the PhII will be more limiting in hitting 120Hz than the 7850? Then you starting ranting and raving about games that the OP never mentioned. Anyone who suggests that the 960T should work ok for the OP you want to label a fanboy. You've trolled enough here, move on, you have other threads to try and troll and derail, don't you?
First of all there's no guarantee of unlock.

Second the 980, which is what the 960T is comparable to, is 24.4% and 73% slower than the i5-2500K and i7-2600K in minimum frames respectively. Pretty big difference.

If you're aiming for 100+ fps instead of the best possible graphics quality and terrible fps then the CPU is definitely the limiting factor.

The answer to the original question: Yes, the 960T bottlenecks, as do all AMD CPUs.
 
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SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
According to this the A8 is faster than a 2500K. LAWL.


First of all there's no guarantee of unlock.

Second the 980, which is what the 960T is comparable to, is 24.4% and 73% slower than the i5-2500K and i7-2600K in minimum frames respectively. Pretty big difference.

If you're aiming for 100+ fps instead of the best possible graphics quality and terrible fps then the CPU is definitely the limiting factor.

The answer to the original question: Yes, the 960T bottlenecks, as do all AMD CPUs.


I'm convinced you are just trolling now. You move the goal posts all over to suit your argument.
 

KingFatty

Diamond Member
Dec 29, 2010
3,034
1
81
No matter what the OP does with that chip, it's inferior to an i3. If he's going to spend money overclocking it such as getting a new cooler or motherboard as suggested by AMD fanboys, he's better off going Intel.

Basically, i3 > anything from AMD overclocked or otherwise. It'll cost less too.

Minitron, I think this show you are willing to ignore facts, but I wonder why?

He lists the hardware he has, such as an aftermarket cooler already, that would enable him to overclock?

Are you threatened by the idea that he would overclock his AMD chip?

Also, did you realize he *ALREADY OWNS THIS CHIP*. So, are you just wanting to attack him for the choice he already made?

I dunno, maybe I just disagree with the philosophy of using forums to attack people's choices, instead of working with what you have and being constructive to try to help. It seems to me he listed specific games he wants to play, specific hardware, and I say go for it and overclock/unlock and see if he gets acceptable performance.
 

Durvelle27

Diamond Member
Jun 3, 2012
4,102
0
0
According to this the A8 is faster than a 2500K. LAWL.


First of all there's no guarantee of unlock.

Second the 980, which is what the 960T is comparable to, is 24.4% and 73% slower than the i5-2500K and i7-2600K in minimum frames respectively. Pretty big difference.

If you're aiming for 100+ fps instead of the best possible graphics quality and terrible fps then the CPU is definitely the limiting factor.

The answer to the original question: Yes, the 960T bottlenecks, as do all AMD CPUs.
so next your gonna tell me my FX 4100 bottlenecks my HD 4870

Edit: @Hellfire88 you'll be fine just see if you can unlock it and if not just overclock it and your good to got won't bottleneck ?
http://www.techspot.com/review/458-battlefield-3-performance/page7.html
 
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minitron

Member
Mar 12, 2012
124
0
0
Minitron, I think this show you are willing to ignore facts, but I wonder why?

He lists the hardware he has, such as an aftermarket cooler already, that would enable him to overclock?

Are you threatened by the idea that he would overclock his AMD chip?

Also, did you realize he *ALREADY OWNS THIS CHIP*. So, are you just wanting to attack him for the choice he already made?

I dunno, maybe I just disagree with the philosophy of using forums to attack people's choices, instead of working with what you have and being constructive to try to help. It seems to me he listed specific games he wants to play, specific hardware, and I say go for it and overclock/unlock and see if he gets acceptable performance.
The fact is even if he overclock it it'll still be a bottleneck in CPU-dependent games like BF3 MP. He can do whatever he want with the chip, it's still a bottleneck.

The acceptable performance argument is valid and I stated it previously.

So what "facts" have I ignored? i3 > anything from AMD. Butthurt?
so next your gonna tell me my FX 4100 bottlenecks my HD 4870

Edit: @Hellfire88 you'll be fine just see if you can unlock it and if not just overclock it and your good to got won't bottleneck ?
http://www.techspot.com/review/458-battlefield-3-performance/page7.html
I'm sure your FX-4100 is garbage in SCII regardless of what video card you have. I'm sure it's garbage in any CPU-dependent game.
 

Durvelle27

Diamond Member
Jun 3, 2012
4,102
0
0
The fact is even if he overclock it it'll still be a bottleneck in CPU-dependent games like BF3 MP. He can do whatever he want with the chip, it's still a bottleneck.

The acceptable performance argument is valid and I stated it previously.

So what "facts" have I ignored? i3 > anything from AMD. Butthurt?

I'm sure your FX-4100 is garbage in SCII regardless of what video card you have. I'm sure it's garbage in any CPU-dependent game.

who cares about SCII and BF3 runs just fine on my so called garbage cpu. TROLL somewhere else.
 

alexruiz

Platinum Member
Sep 21, 2001
2,836
556
126
....

So what "facts" have I ignored? i3 > anything from AMD. Butthurt?

How about you give us a link of an i3 beating all AMDs in BF3 multiplayer? This is THE game that made the OP ask about. Besides, it would prove your "i3 > AMd any case"
 

minitron

Member
Mar 12, 2012
124
0
0
How about you give us a link of an i3 beating all AMDs in BF3 multiplayer? This is THE game that made the OP ask about. Besides, it would prove your "i3 > AMd any case"
Quite honestly I'm looking and can't find one. However, every other review/bench I linked shows that the i3 just as fast or faster than any AMD chip.

On the other hand, the AMD fanboys posted a review that showed AMD chips were 24%-73% lower in minimum FPS in BF3 MP compared to the i5-2500k and i7-2600K respectively.

Can you even find one review where an AMD chips is definitively faster than the i3 in games?
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,118
59
91
Maybe I'm just getting old or something, but what in the blue **** is with the preponderance of abrasive new posters on AT in the last ~2 years?



There has been an influx of Anti-AMD fanboys. Its not that they are pro-Intel, its that they just can't stand AMD.

The "anti" fanboy tends to be more visceral and abrasive than the "pro" fanboy because their motivation for being "anti AMD" or "anti Intel" is based on emotions of anger and frustration at the outset.

Pro-AMD (or Pro-Intel) fanboys tend to just be merely mildly annoying (but easily ignored and you can have decent conversation with them nevertheless) because their motivation for being "pro AMD" or "pro Intel" is based on emotions of enthusiasm, joy, happiness, excitement, etc.

But the "anti-" fanboy is the one that just can't express enough hate, fast enough or loud enough, to sate their fervor. (I'm generalizing, obviously, as there are some "anti-" fanboys who do manage to conduct themselves with civility and decorum, but they tend to be the exception and not the rule)

But why the uptick in "anti-" fanboys? If you are prone to believing in conspiracies then Apoppin of ABT would have you believe that it is because there is a huge marketing shilling program underfoot and that most of the fanboys are just paid shills doing their marketing thang.

I don't subscribe to that school of thought, I believe it has more to do with delusions that people create for themselves, or others create for them, of some David v. Goliath/good v. evil situation and they can't stand the idea of evil triumphing, as misplaced or fabricated the scenario may be.

In other words, there are simply more fanboys now than before, and fanboys do as fanboys do.

Fanboyism and Brand Loyalty

Brand-Conscious Consumers Take Bad News to Heart

The effects of self-brand connections on responses to brand failure: A new look at the consumer–brand relationship

There is a cycle to fanboys, and the length of time in escaping that cycle varies from person to person, as well as the time in which one enters the beginning of the cycle itself.

The Kübler-Ross model (aka 5-stages of grief) is based on the idea that the human psyche process change and the disruption that occurs as an individual aligns their expectations with reality.
1. Denial — "AMD is fine, they've been down before, they'll bounce back!"
Denial is usually only a temporary defense for the individual.
2. Anger — "WTF is this BD BS? It's not fair!"; "How can this happen?"; '"Who or what is to blame? Is it the compilers? Those lazy good for nothing programmers? JFAMD?"
Once in the second stage, the individual recognizes that denial cannot continue. Because of anger, the person is very difficult to care for due to misplaced feelings of rage and envy.
3. Bargaining — "I'll buy them anyways, gotta support competition."; "Where's the undervoltage testing? Surely there is a niche for this product where it WINRAR's the day..."; "Just wait till Piledripper or SteamingPile or Constipator are released, AMD has promised it will do better next year!"
The third stage involves the hope that the individual can somehow postpone or delay the inevitable. Psychologically, the individual is saying, "I understand this sucks, but if I could just do something to convince myself to just wait longer..."
4. Depression — "I'm so sad, why bother with AMD anymore?"; "I'm just going to buy an Intel SB soon anyways so what's the point... What's the point?";
During the fourth stage, the ardent AMD supporter begins to understand the certainty of AMD's situation. Because of this, the individual may become silent, refuse to login to their favorite forums and spend much of the time crying and grieving. This process allows the individual to disconnect from things they once held near and dear. It is not recommended to attempt to cheer up an individual who is in this stage. It is an important time for grieving that must be processed.
5. Acceptance — "It's going to be okay."; "AMD can't fight it, they may as well prepare for it."; "NV will probably buy them anyways..."
In this last stage, individuals begin to come to terms with the inevitable, they move on with life, pleasantly surprised to find that their newly acquired 2600K does not give their kids leukemia despite what they read on AMDZone...

As you can see, we should expect every "pro" fanboy (who lives and breathes, stuck going nowhere fast, in the "Denial" stage) to eventually become an "Angry" fanboy at some point as they cycle through the stages because "Anger" is the second stage, coming after "Denial".

My theory is that every "pro" fanboy experiences a brief time period where they turn on their former favorite brand and become an anti fanboy (pro-AMD -> anti-AMD, etc) because they take it personal that their brand failed them and failed to live up to their expectations. Just as they take it personal to tout their favorite brand, when it falls of their pedestal they then take it personal to demonize that brand.

So for a period of time you literally cannot avoid the abrasive influx of "anti-" fanboys, it is an inevitable aspect that comes with the healing/learning curve of escaping the denial stage of the situation that is at the crux of every fanboy to begin with.
 
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