Phenom overclockers. Do they exist on Anand?

[Martimus]

Here is a rather long (50+ pages) series of posts on Phenom overclocking over at extreme forums (link here) They get approximately 2.6 to 2.8GHz on their systems, but they found that the MB that you have is somewhat lacking compared to the other 790FX boards. It is an interesting read, and overclocking these systems is much more complex than the C2D systems, but can be done.

 

[Pelu]

oh... sounds like overclocking a phenom is a lot of trouble.... no matter what

 

[batmang]

Originally posted by: Pelu
oh... sounds like overclocking a phenom is a lot of trouble.... no matter what

I wouldn't say trouble, I would just say difficult. They are very picky CPU's. Some people were able to get up to 2.6GHz on their 9600 BE's without any changes in voltages. But getting STABLE passed 2.6GHz is where the learning curve gets really steep. There is a guy on the Xtreme forums that has a Vapochill tower and he still cant get 2.8GHz+ 100% stable. That shows you just how difficult they are. A lot of avid overclockers will like having such a challenge, others like myself are more than pleased with the default speeds. Squeezing the extra 700MHz to reach the 3.0GHz mark is such a huge task. I commend anyone who is able to get their OS to fully boot passed 2.8GHz.

This morning before leaving for work, I opened up AMD OverDrive and started overclocking. I was aiming for my previous goal of 2.5GHz (200MHz oc). I bumped the vcore from 1.2v to 1.225. For some reason my CPU runs at 1.2v, it should be 1.225v. I bumped it to 1.225v, moved cores 0, 1, and 3 to multiplier of 12.5. I left core 2 at default multipler. I'm pretty much 100% stable at 2.5GHz. My 3DMark06 score went up 300 points, and I gained 1.5FPS increase in Crysis... [sarcasm]WOW![/sarcasm]. I don't get why the 3rd core is such an overclock killer. I was not able to hit 2.5GHz 100% stable previously when I put all four cores to 12.5 multiplier. 3rd core sucks.

 

[Pelu]

Wasnt all AMD processo through history very sensitive to overclocking... A real challenge to make them go up?

Mine work at 2.4 fine with memory underclocked lol.... otherwise is a zerg... and 2.6 doenst let windows boot .. just bios.. and windows setup also hang.... but 2.6 is where memories are at their speed... I mean... what used it have to make the processor overclock if you need to slow down the memories.. whats the gain... take something from here to place it over there???

 

[batmang]

Originally posted by: Pelu
Wasnt all AMD processo through history very sensitive to overclocking... A real challenge to make them go up?

They were never as easy as Intel CPU's.... but nothing is as challenging as the Phenom IMO. It really is the most challenging overclocker that I've ever seen, BE included.

 

[Pelu]

OC online!
The return of the cores

Login: Somedude
Password: **********

Select Difficulty.

Intel = Easy (a walk in the park, not much scratch from mobs, happy hunting)
AMD = Normal (This will put some challenge, beware of mobs, good luck)
Phenom = Hard (You are Insane.. or incredible talented, this is nightmare)

 

[batmang]

That pretty much sums it up.

But I would change it to this:

Select Overclocking Diffuclty

Intel - Your new to overclocking, you don't expect to get anything less than what EVERYONE else is getting, and your a lemming.

AMD X2 - Your not a lemming, and you have some overclocking experience.

AMD Phenom - Your really bored with Intel and AMD X2's CPU's and your ready for high blood pressure and grey hairs.

*I'm totally joking....*

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

Originally posted by: batmang
Just curious if any of you guys have Phenom's and overclock them? If so, what are your results? Intel fanboy's please refrain from hating.

I'm a huge supporter of AMD, unfortunately, they've kind of lost the edge these last 2 years, and when it came time to upgrade from my Opty 165 to something new, it made more sense to move to Intel if I was going to have to buy DDR2 to replace my DDR anyway.

Here's hoping AMD can get something competitive out the door later this year, I would love the chance to switch back if it was practical.

 

[dajeepster]

Originally posted by: batmang

AMD Phenom - Your really bored with Intel and AMD X2's CPU's and your ready for high blood pressure and grey hairs.

*I'm totally joking....*

And I thought I had something to blame my grey hairs on!!!

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Pelu
OC online!
The return of the cores

Login: Somedude
Password: **********

Select Difficulty.

Intel = Easy (a walk in the park, not much scratch from mobs, happy hunting)
AMD = Normal (This will put some challenge, beware of mobs, good luck)
Phenom = Hard (You are Insane.. or incredible talented, this is nightmare)

BAHAHAHAHA!!! Thanks, you made my day with that post! So funny to me for some reason, but I'm a sucker for VG references, even though I rarely play them these days.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: batmang

Originally posted by: Pelu
Wasnt all AMD processo through history very sensitive to overclocking... A real challenge to make them go up?

They were never as easy as Intel CPU's.... but nothing is as challenging as the Phenom IMO. It really is the most challenging overclocker that I've ever seen, BE included.

Let's see, I've overclocked all kinds of AMDs over the years, I'll post my opinion here :

AMD 386 : fairly easy, overclocked a 25mhz one to 33mhz! WOOHOO Wing Commander

AMD 486 : super easy, jumpers jumpers

AMD K5 : nightmare hard, I had a 90mhz K5 that wouldn't run at 100mhz, lol

AMD K6 : a bit easier, particularly the higher speed grades (had a 233 that ran at 300)

AMD K6-2 : could usually get one speed grade up, sometimes two

AMD K6-3 : outclassed by Celeron 300a, unsuccessful in my attempts to OC the K63-450

AMD K7 : GOLDEN FINGERS! Fun, but the AMD Irongate chipset should burn in eternal hell.

AMD Athlon Slot A : I never had one of these back in the day, and by the time I worked with them overclocking it was the least of my concerns

AMD Athlon Socket A : Oooo fun, not too hard to overclock but HOLY CRAP I JUST BROKE IT with a GOLDEN ORB!! ARRRRGGGHHH!!

AMD Athlon XP : 2500+@3200+ on Nforce2 baby! Yeah. Oh don't forget the absolute shit that was Thoroughbred-A. I never played with the mobile ones, but meh.

AMD Opteron 940 : My first 64-bit processor! I think it was an Opteron 142 on a NF3 Pro chipset. Good stuff, but I didn't overclock it at all.

AMD A64 939 : Was able to overclock pretty easy, once I figured out how the damn HT thing worked. NF4 FTW.

AMD A64 X2 : ^^ Same as the single-core, easy.

AMD Phenom : Just reading the stories makes me shudder at the possible wasted hours this thing would wring from me.

 

[lopri]

Originally posted by: nanaki333
overclock? i had a hard time getting it to run at stock speeds

This is why I've been hesitant getting a Phenom. The CPU+Platform just doesn't look stable yet.

Originally posted by: manowar821
Well... I WILL own one, once the higher speed chips come. Does that count?

I was wondering about what they're going to call a Phenom 2.6GHz+? (If that ever happens)
They already named the 2.6GHz part as 9900/9950.. Then what would be 2.7GHz, 2.8GHz parts? Phenom 10.1K, 10.3K?

 

[Martimus]

Originally posted by: lopri
[They already named the 2.6GHz part as 9900/9950.. Then what would be 2.7GHz, 2.8GHz parts? Phenom 10.1K, 10.3K?

Yeah, their naming convention is piss poor. I mean they left no room for any improvement from their original chips. Are they planning on having no higher speed binned parts?

 

[richwenzel]

i think you will see plenty of phenom overclocks and buyers when tricorse come in at $160 for 2.2....

 

[AMDZen]

"Phenom overclocker" is kind of an oxy moron

 

[Nathelion]

I think they're going to come with the B3 and go straight on to 45 nm. Barcelona is terrible and they know it. Supposedly, some partners have received Shanghai samples already - I don't know how significant that is though. It is also rumored that B3s have started shipping in limited quantities.

/unsubstantiated rumor mill out

 

[batmang]

phenom love?

 

[Martimus]

Batmang, Have you read the forum posts that I linked, and tried to overclock your rig similar to what KTE did (with a nearly identical Phenom rig)? I know it is very long (nearly 60 pages) but they go into very high detail on what they are doing and how. It can really help you on getting some extra performance out of your Phenom rig.

 

[batmang]

Martimus, I found out about KTE's awesomeness a while ago. I've read through that thread quite a bit. Very good informative read. I will eventually get a better air cooling solution and try for more mhz.

 

[batmang]

Here are my latest 100% stable results. Nothing crazy, but decent.
http://www.jmbat.com/media/phe...nt5_11094_3DMark06.jpg

 

[mrchan]

I had my Phenom 9500 at 2.6 on a crappy ECS a770m, frys bundle, $200. Only managed 10500 on 3dmark06 with my MSI 8800 GT OC...

So I returned it for an $80 e2200 combo, have that oc'd to 2.9 and am at 10300 on 3dmark06.

My Crysis FPS jumped by about 5 too.... It was at about 25 FPS with 1024x768 and high settings with the Phenom. Now i'm at 31-32, same settings.

 

[byronm]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Heh, you simply have to overclock core 1-2-4 and keep core #3 at default speeds. That's how they got phenoms a lot higher iirc. Or was it all BS about core #3 being kaput ?

I would bet that 90% of the people getting BSOD's on core 3 were running memory out of timing on and old Bios.

I had the same problem and just about rma'd my memory and the chip thinking it was bad but dropping to ddr 800 fixed it short term and the later bios updates made ddr1066 stable as can be.

I don't have a BE so i have to overclock through the fsb and i generally get up to 2.4 - 2.5 on air and its stable. Memory is probably getting close to trying so if i do overclock i'll drop it back down to ddr 800 and let it clock up according to my fsb tweaks.

 

[Zap]

I'm wondering about people having the third core failing... if that's the core being disabled in the Phenom Tri-cores? If so and they're cheap... maybe?

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles

Originally posted by: Markfw900
Yes, I don't think many have them, since they DON'T overclock hardly at all, and they are not a good value compared to a Q6600. (IMO)

well that's exactly the point - the Phenoms aren't horrible when we consider them stock for stock, but as soon as you start to consider overclocking there really is no question when the Q6600 can consistently achieve clocks 1GHz higher with relative ease.

Well, the "not a good value" is IMO from Micro Center selling Q6600 retail box chips for $199 since January.

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Let's see, I've overclocked all kinds of AMDs over the years, I'll post my opinion here :

AMD K5 : nightmare hard, I had a 90mhz K5 that wouldn't run at 100mhz, lol

...

AMD K7 : GOLDEN FINGERS! Fun, but the AMD Irongate chipset should burn in eternal hell.

AMD Athlon Slot A : I never had one of these back in the day, and by the time I worked with them overclocking it was the least of my concerns

The slot A chip was the K7 with Golden Fingers.

I had a K5-90 that ran at 100MHz. I also had a sweet K5-166 that was almost good at 200 (for some reason Starcraft gave me the blues, but everything else was fine). Note that there were two K5 chips. The original one was sold at the MHz it ran, while the newer one was sold as an "equivalent" or "PR" speed, meaning my K5-166 really ran at 133MHz. I think the two K5 designs actually overlapped at somewhere around 100-133MHz.

 

[batmang]

Originally posted by: mrchan
I had my Phenom 9500 at 2.6 on a crappy ECS a770m, frys bundle, $200. Only managed 10500 on 3dmark06 with my MSI 8800 GT OC...

So I returned it for an $80 e2200 combo, have that oc'd to 2.9 and am at 10300 on 3dmark06.

My Crysis FPS jumped by about 5 too.... It was at about 25 FPS with 1024x768 and high settings with the Phenom. Now i'm at 31-32, same settings.

Hrrmmm, at all default speeds I scored around 10,380 and got around 39-40fps in Crysis 1680x1050 in medium quality. Going from 2.3GHz to 2.5GHz and upping the video card clocks gets me 11,094 in 3DMark06 and 43fps in Crysis 1680x1050 in medium quality. The video card is at the max I want to take it.

I will work on upping the CPU more once I get a better cooling solution. For some reason, moving the FSB at ALL results in instant lock up. So my only option that works is playing with the multiplier. 13x gets me 2.6GHz... but that also results in instant lock up. I'm not going to move the vcore up until I get a nice cooling setup. 2.5GHz is fine for now.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: Pelu
Wasnt all AMD processo through history very sensitive to overclocking... A real challenge to make them go up?

Mine work at 2.4 fine with memory underclocked lol.... otherwise is a zerg... and 2.6 doenst let windows boot .. just bios.. and windows setup also hang.... but 2.6 is where memories are at their speed... I mean... what used it have to make the processor overclock if you need to slow down the memories.. whats the gain... take something from here to place it over there???

There weren't as many "sure thing O/C's" for AMD but they've had some real gem overclockers.

-The Athlon XP 2100+ (1.73 GHz) and 1700+ (1.43 GHz) Tbred B (90nm, second stepping) chips were an easy overclock to 2.2-2.4 GHz with about +0.2V. Ditto later Barton-revisions Athlon XP's which had 512K of L2 cache (vs 256K on Tbred).

-The 3000+ (1.8 GHz) / 3200+ (2 GHz) AMD Athlon64's would often reach 2.5-2.8 GHz with about +0.2 V.

-The Opteron 165/170 dual cores (1.8 GHz/ 2.0 GHz) chips were money and could often hit 2.5-2.8 GHz, with a couple steppings reaching the 2.9-3 GHz range.

-The Opteron 14x single core series were like bargain bin single-core FX chips, and could often hit 2.8-3 GHz.


It's not so much that AMD has a history of overclocking problems as that usually first steppings/generations have little to no o/c headroom.

---------------

Intel's 45nm process is MUCH more advanced than AMD's current 65nm technology and even AMD's initial 45nm process. Leakage is much heavier on the AMD side.

When AMD gets a mature 45nm chip out at the end of this year or early next year, I would guess that they will be pushing quad cores into the 2.8-3 GHz range with ease. It will just take awhile because they're so behind on implementing things like high-k and low-k tech, etc.