Phenom X4 830 @3.0 vs e8400 @4050?

[Spurst]

I picked up a Phenom x4 830 for my HTPC rig, but after getting it all set up, I'm not sure I want to make the move because my old e8400 out of my old gaming rig just "feels" faster.

The motherboard for the Phenom is a Asus M4N68T-M, which is pretty lackluster (it was 40 bucks), whereas my XFX 680i SLI for my e8400 has all the bells / whistles.

I can't find a whole lot of info on the 830 X4, and with a 200mhz overclock, I'm sure it can go higher. I'm just not all that familiar with the 630a bios, which is fairly locked down, with a locked multiplier.

I'm open to any ideas or suggestions. I figure whichever I don't keep is going on Craigslist for sale.

Other factors:
I have an 8800 GT SLI for video (if I keep the phenom, I can only use 1, if I keep the e8400, they can both be used, and the phenom gets sold w/ its onboard Nvidia 7025 gfx.

They both have 4 gigs ram

Same CPU cooler for both - go figure.

Its my HTPC rig, so it sees mild gaming on a Projector - 1280x1024 res

 

[richierich1212]

You have to up the HTT bus to overclock with that locked multiplier. But make sure your memory divider is lowered so that your memory runs at rated speeds. Then double check NB speed, make sure it's at around 2400MHz-2600MHz.

 

[Spurst]

would this guide be accurate for the procedure?
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=252299

Is this even worth the effort? Will these chips get much past the measly 3.0 I have it at?

I dont have a setting for HT link that I see... thus far, I have it at...
3500mhz
All voltages are at auto.
250 bus Bus
ram set to 400, which is actually running 501.5mhz (1000) 1:2
NB freq 2256

Isnt that HT link supposed to be at 2k? It auto drops it? What value do I need that HT link to hover around? Its all at 3500mhz, but it sure doesnt feel much faster.

 

[Gikaseixas]

It should reach 3.6 - 3.8 speeds, like the poster above said, push also NB to around 2.4 - 2.6 and you'll notice a nice improvement over the E8400

 

[daveybrat]

Here's the main problem, it's that cheapie motherboard.

That old Nvidia chipset only supports 1000MHz Hyper Transport (2000 MT/s)

The X4 830 runs at 4000 MT/s.

Even the older AMD 760G motherboard supports up to 5200 MT/s.

I'd much rather go with this motherboard for $20 more:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128504

 

[Spurst]

Here's the main problem, it's that cheapie motherboard.

That old Nvidia chipset only supports 1000MHz Hyper Transport (2000 MT/s)

The X4 830 runs at 4000 MT/s.

Even the older AMD 760G motherboard supports up to 5200 MT/s.

I'd much rather go with this motherboard for $20 more:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128504

well, something is wrong then, because my e8400 completely destroys it at superpi. it feels really sluggish. will having the HT at 2000mt on this board really slow it down that much? I have a few more days to return the board. I'd just rather not install windows all over again.

things im getting with this board:
it feels slow
hard drive speeds are really sad. its about 20% slower with HDTUNE on this MB than my last one (MSI K8N SLI)
cant modify HT anywhere. I'm still unsure what is modifying its value.

 

[daveybrat]

Well i've used a Gigabyte Nvidia 7025 board that is the same as your Asus with an AMD quad-core before and it did seem sluggish overall compared to the Gigabyte 760G motherboard.

So i'd say yes and return the board from personal experience.

 

[Spurst]

well, after running passmark, ive realized the bottleneck is this hard drive. I'm not sure why its running so much slower on this board, but its definitely a bottleneck. WD2500YD

The CPU is actually a little bit ahead of the curve, so I don't think my 1253 HT is actually holding me up any. I might just hang on to this board.

Passmark Performance Test 7.0
CPU Score - 4689.6 (@3510mhz 250fsb x14mult)
Memory - 1009.4 (668mhz CAS 7 3:8)
Disk - 317

 

[pantsaregood]

Of course the E8400 is running SuperPi faster. You have it clocked higher and Penryn is slightly faster per clock than K10. A 3.6-3.8 GHz quad-core K10 will dramatically outperform a 4.0 GHz dual-core Penryn in anything that is significantly multithreaded.

 

[Spurst]

while i appreciate this situation, its hard to justify the slow speeds for daily use on my HTPC. I think the 830 is performing where it should be given the benchmarks I ran, but I'm just not happy with the actual feel of the OS response. It just feels slower, more processing power or not.

I'm still torn. I have to make some choices...

The Phenom 830 is at 3.5ghz, but the board overclocks poorly. Sometimes when it reboots, the overclock chokes out. I've tried taking it back down, but it isnt making much difference. Its Prime95 stable at 3.5ghz, but apparently the bios doesn't dig it. So, it needs more tweaking.

I'm still trying to figure out the sweet spot with the settings. I could probably push the processor higher, but I'm satisfied with 3.5.

 

[peonyu]

E8xxx chips can overclock to 4.0ghz effortlessly. No reason to use a Phenom over one if you have a board capable of oc'ing the C2D.

 

[sm625]

Its probably the motherboard. An E6600 conroe with a gigabyte P45 chipset motherboard even at stock 2.4GHz "feels" much faster than an X2 @ 3.3GHz on a 690G motherboard. I'm sure if I stuck the X2 into a 990 board it would "feel" faster.

 

[Spurst]

so how is the 880g chipset? if i return the asus 630a board, i'll probably get a biostar 880g board instead.

 

[tweakboy]

I picked up a Phenom x4 830 for my HTPC rig, but after getting it all set up, I'm not sure I want to make the move because my old e8400 out of my old gaming rig just "feels" faster.

The motherboard for the Phenom is a Asus M4N68T-M, which is pretty lackluster (it was 40 bucks), whereas my XFX 680i SLI for my e8400 has all the bells / whistles.

I can't find a whole lot of info on the 830 X4, and with a 200mhz overclock, I'm sure it can go higher. I'm just not all that familiar with the 630a bios, which is fairly locked down, with a locked multiplier.

I'm open to any ideas or suggestions. I figure whichever I don't keep is going on Craigslist for sale.

Other factors:
I have an 8800 GT SLI for video (if I keep the phenom, I can only use 1, if I keep the e8400, they can both be used, and the phenom gets sold w/ its onboard Nvidia 7025 gfx.

They both have 4 gigs ram

Same CPU cooler for both - go figure.

Its my HTPC rig, so it sees mild gaming on a Projector - 1280x1024 res

Oh my 1280res. You can max out BF3 use 8xAA 16xAF and get 60fps no matter what happens. The 8800GT SLI is good still after 4 and half years but if your going to get the Phenom quad which I suggest you do over the Intel 4Ghz,, because , you will be future proof. Also games like to use more then 2 processors,, on avg.. todays new CPUs ,, use about 60 percent CPU power playing BF3 or Crysis 2. The GPU does all the work with the rendering.

Grab the Quad along with a 460 1GB both for under 100 dollars. gl

 

[ElFenix]

well, something is wrong then, because my e8400 completely destroys it at superpi.

a 4GHz conroe is going to destroy a 3GHz stars at single threaded apps. that's just a fact.

 

[soccerballtux]

Oh my 1280res. You can max out BF3 use 8xAA 16xAF and get 60fps no matter what happens. The 8800GT SLI is good still after 4 and half years but if your going to get the Phenom quad which I suggest you do over the Intel 4Ghz,, because , you will be future proof. Also games like to use more then 2 processors,, on avg.. todays new CPUs ,, use about 60 percent CPU power playing BF3 or Crysis 2. The GPU does all the work with the rendering.

Grab the Quad along with a 460 1GB both for under 100 dollars. gl

I too would take the x4 830 overclocked, BF3 would run much much better with it at 3.5ghz than with the c2d at 4. BF3 is heavily threaded and benefits a lot from the extra cores.

 

[sangyup81]

Is your SATA set to AHCI not IDE?

 

[SlowSpyder]

a 4GHz conroe is going to destroy a 3GHz stars at single threaded apps. that's just a fact.

While this is certainly true, I would probably still take the quad over the dual core.

 

[richierich1212]

a 4GHz conroe is going to destroy a 3GHz stars at single threaded apps. that's just a fact.

True but he mentioned SuperPi. lol.

 

[formulav8]

E8xxx chips can overclock to 4.0ghz effortlessly.

That hasn't been the case with me. I've tried ocing e840/e7200 and a couple e5200's. The max on the 8400/7200 was 3.6ghz. The e5200 was even less.


Anyways op, that old chipset board won't do much to hold the Ph2 performance back. Its only the HyporTransport bus that is 1000mhz. The Northbridge runs at the higher 4000mhz speeds. I've build on both old 1ghz htt chipset and new 5.2ghz htt versions and I couldn't perceive any real differences. I'm not even sure benchmarks would show much of a difference.

 

[exar333]

E8xxx chips can overclock to 4.0ghz effortlessly. No reason to use a Phenom over one if you have a board capable of oc'ing the C2D.

This. Phenom was pretty crappy and Intel dualies were generally better than the x4s in most tasks.

 

[Spurst]

The board the phenom resides on is a fairly basic Asus M4N68T-M and I'm having a lot of trouble getting a solid OC out of it because the HT is locked in the bios.

I'm stuck feeding it whatever the bios is using as a multiplier. It will boot / run at 240 FSB with the memory yanked down to 400, which gives like 3.35ghz. It's also limited to only 1000MT (which overclocked is like 1250). The options here are fairly limited - I'm returning the board tomorrow, and most likely will get a Biostar or MSI 880G based board - whichever Microcenter has for a low price. The budget on this build is locked.

The board the C2D on is fairly robust. Since all I have right now extra are 8800GT's, this board can house 2 8800GT's in SLI. The 4050 on this overclock is also 100% stable.

I'm not doubting that the 830 is the better of the 2. I'm just questioning the choice given all the options. I will look for a different board tomorrow, and maybe the 880G will blow me away and be absolutely great. I just know the 630a is terrible and I regret ever getting it.

 

[blckgrffn]

I just picked this guy (830) up today at Microcenter for the backup PC/downstairs HTPC and the 840 for the main HTPC. When considering its performance, it might be important to remember it cost $50 I was considering picking up some 2500K+z68 Boards for ~$250 out the door but couldn't pull the trigger. I paired it with this guy:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004SQ0QGU

Bought the last two Amazon had in stock for $85 each shipped, think they should work well.

Anyway, interesting to see this thread, I'll have to chime back in with my experience. I had an old 630a Gigabyte board I was considering just putting the 830 in, this is making glad I decided not to! Thanks for justifying my expenditure OP

*and then I re-read the thread and FormulaV8 points out how fruitless it all is. Well, dammit, at least I get to sell off the DDR2 and use the cheap DDR3 I've been hoarding. At least that counts for something... right?

 

[peonyu]

That hasn't been the case with me. I've tried ocing e840/e7200 and a couple e5200's. The max on the 8400/7200 was 3.6ghz. The e5200 was even less.


Anyways op, that old chipset board won't do much to hold the Ph2 performance back. Its only the HyporTransport bus that is 1000mhz. The Northbridge runs at the higher 4000mhz speeds. I've build on both old 1ghz htt chipset and new 5.2ghz htt versions and I couldn't perceive any real differences. I'm not even sure benchmarks would show much of a difference.

Did you try those cpus in the same board, with the same ram ? Im not doubting you, but if it was the same board that could easily be the problem. C2d's for the most part Overclocked really predictably based on what they were [45nm chips such as the 8xxx = 4ghz generally, same with 7xxx series, 65nm i think was maxed at 3.2ghz for most ppl].

 

[Spurst]

Is your SATA set to AHCI not IDE?

Its set correctly in the bios. I double checked it. I think the bios choice is IDE or Raid though. I've been hitting the asus forums about the craptastic performance of this board, too. If it were just the first time I was using the HD, I'd chalk it up to a slow HD (which it is in a way), but I'm seeing a noticeable performance drop in this board versus the last board. Heck, I even compared it to my i5 2500k z68 board (I grabbed that deal up from Microcenter, too).

While the speed of the HD/board really isnt a huge concern (it's being returned today), my main dilemma is... do I want a more robust older generation motherboard or a newer mATX budget board. Its my HTPC, so I need to add in a WinTV 1600 tuner, an Audigy 2 (it feeds 7.1 spdif into my home theater system, and a wireless card would be nice, but I have a USB wireless card).

*and then I re-read the thread and FormulaV8 points out how fruitless it all is. Well, dammit, at least I get to sell off the DDR2 and use the cheap DDR3 I've been hoarding. At least that counts for something... right?

Not really fruitless. The 630a chipset lacks the higher speeds. Its also an old chipset. With no modifiable HT multiplier, it also really restricts any overclocking attempts on this board.

I'm also looking at this as a potential motherboard:
http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?InvtId=M3N-HT-DELUXE-BO-R

I'd rather have the option to use the 8800GT's in SLI until I get a GTX 460 replacement. I do have 2 460 768's in my 2500k system, though... I'm debating on pulling one...