Philadelphia Man, 89, Held On Nazi Death Camp Charges

[werepossum]

When did this asinine "have sympathy for fugitive Nazis because they got away with it and now they're ooold so boo hoo" movement get rolling?

Track down, chase down, hunt to the ends of the globe every last one of these dirt bags, and throw as many in jail as possible, even if they're 105 years old with 1 day to live.

If there were any shred of true justice in this world, the same would extend far beyond Nazi war criminals and include communist thugs, dictators and their various acomplices that have also been responsible for crimes against humanity.

Damned well said, sirrah. Harrumph! Harrumph!

When they came for the Nazi war criminals, I said nothing.

\and was pretty damn okay with it.

lol +1

Stand around while some Jews are killed in your general vicinity. Fight on the Eastern Front.

Which would you choose?:hmm:

The vast majority of Germans, even the SS which was largely (though not totally, some officers were transferred in) volunteer and nominally all Nazi, volunteered to fight rather than to do prison camp duty. This is true even in the latter years when Germany was on the retreat everywhere and all three fronts (but especially the Eastern front) were meat grinders.

There is absolutely no reason to ever give one of these people a pass. None. If this old man or another is not guilty of any specific war crimes, fine, but neither old age nor the prospect of death as an honest soldier should gain them an ounce of sympathy collectively. And I am unanimous in that.

\Hyacinth Bucket

 

[nehalem256]

The vast majority of Germans, even the SS which was largely (though not totally, some officers were transferred in) volunteer and nominally all Nazi, volunteered to fight rather than to do prison camp duty. This is true even in the latter years when Germany was on the retreat everywhere and all three fronts (but especially the Eastern front) were meat grinders.

Well the relative number of prison camp vs. meat grinder jobs would tend to insure that.

There is absolutely no reason to ever give one of these people a pass. None. If this old man or another is not guilty of any specific war crimes, fine, but neither old age nor the prospect of death as an honest soldier should gain them an ounce of sympathy collectively. And I am unanimous in that.

If you really want to bring people to justice you should at least make an attempt at making the charges look reasonable for the actions committed.

Legal filings unsealed Wednesday in the U.S. indicate the district court in Weiden, Germany, issued a warrant for Breyer's arrest the day before, charging him with 158 counts of complicity in the commission of murder.

Each count represents a trainload of Nazi prisoners from Hungary, Germany and Czechoslovakia who were killed at Auschwitz-Birkenau between May 1944 and October 1944, the documents said.

I mean come on. The charges themselves look like trumped up political charges. Lets hang the whole holocaust on one 18 year old guard!

 

[justoh]

Weird. Even after seen those pictures people still seem to have a problem with his extradition. It's almost like they couldn't have been relevant.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Govt is in the nazi killing business, and business is a boomin'.

:awe:

And yea, sorry, no sympathy at all here.

 

[WackyDan]

I wholeheartedly agree. So when are we prosecuting commies, dictators, Western presidents and admins?

Have they lost a war? No. What Stalin did to his own people was epic in scale, but the people didn't rise up and overthrow him, nor did we fight an active war with the soviets where they lost.

See Kosovo for an example again where there was genocide and the losers (pretty much every side on that one) were held accountable for it.

The difference indeed is winners vs losers and perhaps to a large degree who is in the right vs wrong. In vietnam, as in Iraq and Afghanistan, American and NATO allied troops did indeed get punished/held accountable for war crimes.

 

[Zebo]

Stand around while some Jews are killed in your general vicinity. Fight on the Eastern Front.

Which would you choose?:hmm:

I wouldn't have joined SS in the first place and probably been one of nazi germanys German victims. Hitler killed about 2 million Germans too who didnt cop to his religion.

 

[Exterous]

What people miss is working at SS extermination and work camps was a volunteer job from private to the top. So "i was just following orders under penalty of death" was not a valid defense at Nuremberg for them. In fact whole SS was volunteer but took an especially depraved individual to work the camps. Again cya.

I don't believe this is completely correct. It was a 'volunteer job' to join the SS not necessarily to work the camps. Early in the war it almost assuredly was, however by 1944 many younger SS members were forced to work as guards. His age makes this suspect as most were in the <16 age group but being a guard was not wholly voluntary.

Unrelated to this story (and its been a while) but I remember reading that there were a few camps that forced local militia in conquered eastern provinces to augment the guards under threat of retaliation against families. Not largely noticed because they were almost all invariably killed by the SS or the Soviets

This may be a controversial statement but I feel somewhat bad for the younger SS members. Many had been brainwashed and indoctrinated by the Nazi machine since they were young kids, often at the urging of their parents, so its no real surprise so many became monsters.

This is not to say that they should not be punished for their crimes but these men were molded from an impressionable early age to act in a savage and vicious manner

my question is why the big push now to put him on trial? the guy didnt flee like the top Nazis did, he has not been hiding, he didnt change his name, our government knew who and what he did in the war and where he lived in the states.

I too was curious about this and it turns out that most of the reporting on this is complete shit. For a better read go here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/19/us/johann-breyer-accused-of-working-at-auschwitz-and-buchenwald.html

It seems they have been trying on and off to get him since the 90s. This particular case is a bit more problematic as he is a US citizen from birth which stalled the whole process. (His mother was born in the US but moved to Czechoslovakia as a child.)

It seems the Germans are getting more aggressive in their stances - likely to make sure as few slip through their fingers due to old age as possible - and that is what finally made this go through. The NYT reports that the US authorities encouraged them to pursue this farther.

It seems like there is plenty of evidence against this man so good riddance

 

[Newell Steamer]

B-b-b-but teh world war 2s were soooo long ago!!

 

[nehalem256]

I wonder if the people that are fine with charging this German guard also think that US soldiers that were guards for US Japanese Internment camps should have to pay reparations to their Japanese victims?

 

[bshole]

I wonder if the people that are fine with charging this German guard also think that US soldiers that were guards for US Japanese Internment camps should have to pay reparations to their Japanese victims?

And I wonder how many toasters you have had carnal relations with, but that is hardly relevant.

 

[Jaskalas]

For a better read go here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/19/u...d-of-working-at-auschwitz-and-buchenwald.html

I gather two points from that.

1: They want collective punishment for any SS who was there.
2: Double jeopardy. They tried and failed to extradite him in the 90s. Apparently they can just keep trying until they succeed?

 

[Exterous]

2: Double jeopardy. They tried and failed to extradite him in the 90s. Apparently they can just keep trying until they succeed?

No - they couldn't DEPORT him as Germany wouldn't take him and you can't deport a US citizen. If Germany requests it he can be EXTRADITED and thats what happened. I don't think Double Jeopardy applies as 1) He is not being tried for a crime in the US and 2) This is not a new finding just that a country has now requested extradition

 

[alcoholbob]

And I wonder how many toasters you have had carnal relations with, but that is hardly relevant.

Because 'Murica.

 

[OutHouse]

I wonder if the people that are fine with charging this German guard also think that US soldiers that were guards for US Japanese Internment camps should have to pay reparations to their Japanese victims?

I can see where you want to go with that, both were just following orders right? however there is the whole SS thing of murdering millions that just does not compare to what you are saying.

my OP question still stands. WHY does germany want to try him now? And why did our government say 60 years ago he was a minor when joined the SS and wasn't responsible for the war crimes the SS did. why the shift?

 

[smackababy]

I can see where you want to go with that, both were just following orders right? however there is the whole SS thing of murdering millions that just does not compare to what you are saying.

my OP question still stands. WHY does germany want to try him now? And why did our government say 60 years ago he was a minor when joined the SS and wasn't responsible for the war crimes the SS did. why the shift?

Germany seems to be pushing more to bring Nazi's to justice before they all die off.



As far as nehalem comparing the holocaust to Japanese Interment camps, yes, I do fully support anyone who gave or followed illegal orders and those who acted completely on their own during that time (or any time, for that matter) being brought to justice.

 

[Exterous]

And why did our government say 60 years ago he was a minor when joined the SS and wasn't responsible for the war crimes the SS did. why the shift?

Well, if you had read the article I linked...

New evidence surfaced recently showing that he was a willing guard Auschwitz who participated in the 'death camp operations' which counters his claims that he did not.

Also the US government was not attempting to identify Nazis 60 years ago. It was not until 2003 that the 'minor' argument was brought up. I believe this is in relation to stripping him of citizenship and deportation instead of the current extradition. It seems being 17 was not enough todefense against stripping citizenship but it does not defend against an extradition request in light of the new evidence

 

[Victorian Gray]

I wonder if the people that are fine with charging this German guard also think that US soldiers that were guards for US Japanese Internment camps should have to pay reparations to their Japanese victims?

Want to tell the rest of us where the death camps and furnaces where located in the United States?

Oh. Sorry, it took a second before I realized that you were just being a stupid ass here.

Never mind.

 

[RampantAndroid]

For a better read go here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/19/us/johann-breyer-accused-of-working-at-auschwitz-and-buchenwald.html

Prosecutors do not believe they need to establish that Mr. Breyer &#8220;pulled any levers&#8221; at Auschwitz, Andrea Foulkes, an assistant United States attorney, told reporters after the hearing on Wednesday, but only that he &#8220;made it possible for the killings to happen.&#8221;

So did the people who built the gas chambers, fences,...and ran the trains, hell - even built the train cars that held them. To me, it seems like they just lowered the bar...

 

[justoh]

So did the people who built the gas chambers, fences,...and ran the trains, hell - even built the train cars that held them. To me, it seems like they just lowered the bar...

I thought I was the only Burke fan here. Isn't he just the greatest?!?!

 

[Zaap]

So did the people who built the gas chambers, fences,...and ran the trains, hell - even built the train cars that held them. To me, it seems like they just lowered the bar...

Slave laborers built the fences and the gas chambers.

Many who ran the trains ARE completely complicit. (Building trains, no. That's of course silly).

I think most people think Auschwitz and most German Extermination camps are in Germany.) They arent. Theyre in the far reaches of Poland.

The camps in Germany fooled many as "relocation" camps, when the pretense was just mass deportation. However, there is no logical ruse that grants anyone immunity from not knowing what they were really involved in if they did anything in the outer deathcamps... the end of the line. Everyone involved in those was in on it and knew full well what was going on.

 

[nehalem256]

Want to tell the rest of us where the death camps and furnaces where located in the United States?

Oh. Sorry, it took a second before I realized that you were just being a stupid ass here.

Never mind.

I'm sorry. I didn't realize that rounding up innocent people and holding them in camps was somehow not a violation of their human rights.

Is gassing them going a step further? Of course. Which is why I was suggesting simple monetary reparations should be paid by the perpetrators instead of prison.

 

[Victorian Gray]

I'm sorry. I didn't realize that rounding up innocent people and holding them in camps was somehow not a violation of their human rights.

Is gassing them going a step further? Of course. Which is why I was suggesting simple monetary reparations should be paid by the perpetrators instead of prison.

1999

"The Justice Department closed the books this week on a $1.6 billion reparations program for ethnic Japanese interned in American camps during World War II, and will settle with 181 ethnic Japanese from Latin America who suffered similar treatment.

The redress program made $20,000 payments to 82,210 Japanese Americans or their heirs, department officials said yesterday. Under a federal court settlement approved last month, the balance of the fund was left over to make $5,000 payments to Latin American Japanese."


http://www.democracynow.org/1999/2/18/wwii_reparations_japanese_american_internees


{EDIT} Not to mention that the actions of the American (and Canadian) govt. re internment, while abhorrent, were in no way comparable to the Nazi policy of slave labour and the deliberate, planned extermination of the Jews (and others, like the Roma, the handicapped, and Slavs).

 

[Sulaco]

I'm sorry. I didn't realize that rounding up innocent people and holding them in camps was somehow not a violation of their human rights.

Is gassing them going a step further? Of course. Which is why I was suggesting simple monetary reparations should be paid by the perpetrators instead of prison.

You should probably just shut the hell up at this point, as you're only embarrassing and making a further ass of yourself.

 

[nehalem256]

1999

"The Justice Department closed the books this week on a $1.6 billion reparations program for ethnic Japanese interned in American camps during World War II, and will settle with 181 ethnic Japanese from Latin America who suffered similar treatment.

The redress program made $20,000 payments to 82,210 Japanese Americans or their heirs, department officials said yesterday. Under a federal court settlement approved last month, the balance of the fund was left over to make $5,000 payments to Latin American Japanese."


http://www.democracynow.org/1999/2/18/wwii_reparations_japanese_american_internees

Thanks for making my point.

Notice how the US government made the reparations instead of the individual guards. Because it was the US government that was the one responsible for what happened.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Thanks for making my point.

Notice how the US government made the reparations instead of the individual guards. Because it was the US government that was the one responsible for what happened.

Notice how fucking stupid you are?