Philippines' Duterte, in China, announces 'separation' from US

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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,570
7,631
136
Duterte, leader of Philippines, has every right to forfeit their claim to the SCS and hand it over to China.
Philippines should pick better leaders, but that's their business.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,651
10,515
136
Meh...we really don't need the Philippines any more. Demolish (completely) all our military bases...and any other US government owned buildings/facilities...then GTFO and send all non-US citizen filipinos back. let Duarte cozy up to China...then sit back and listen to him whine when China takes the islands.
The most uninteresting food from SE Asia. Won't miss pancit and greasy lumpia. I'm sure everyone is craving a balut.
 
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Reactions: trenchfoot

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,396
126
PH officials are trying to damage control - http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/21/asia/duterte-china-philippines-us/

Background of why the new PH leader is saying what he said - http://www.wsj.com/articles/behind-...h-the-u-s-a-lifetime-of-resentment-1477061118

In other news, Americans in PH are getting nervous - http://www.reuters.com/article/us-philippines-usa-mood-idUSKBN12I07K

US warship(s) will challenge commie china 90% claim in SCS - http://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-usa-exclusive-idUSKCN12L1O9
 
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agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
You do know how WWII started right? Remember how people said Hitler and Nazi Germany would just do this and that (bullying smaller neighbors and nothing else) and Imperial Japan would just leave the US alone after they took over weaker neighbors. We all know how things turned out.

And guess what after bully china takes over the whole SCS? It take on Japan ( Senkaku islands) and by treaty, the US will have to get involve.

Linky - http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-11341139

You should go shoot a chinese person to get it out of your system.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,505
27,801
136
The most uninteresting food from SE Asia. Won't miss pancit and greasy lumpia. I'm sure everyone is craving a balut.
The calamansi juice we buy is from the Philippines. If defending the supply of calamansi juice requires the wholesale destruction of peoples and civilizations, well, it's pretty darn good juice.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,297
352
126
Is this because he is certain that HRC is going to become president and her reputation as SoS? Or should we pin this on the also-ran scaring off our allies? I have no idea what to make of this.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
Being the dominant naval and air power in the world confers certain advantages that helps to maintain our interests, to realize these advantages you have to sail. Allowing China's unchallenged ascent to total regional dominance in Asia is not in our interest or that of our political/military/economic allies in the region.

You must be kidding. America was the primary catalyst for China's rise. It is now the world's greatest manufacturer and every year the gap between it and the rest of the world increases. Having ships there does not change this underlying truth. America WILL lose influence over there, that is a matter of physical reality and having ships over there won't do a damn thing to slow or stop it in any way.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,831
34,770
136
You must be kidding. America was the primary catalyst for China's rise. It is now the world's greatest manufacturer and every year the gap between it and the rest of the world increases. Having ships there does not change this underlying truth. America WILL lose influence over there, that is a matter of physical reality and having ships over there won't do a damn thing to slow or stop it in any way.

Who's talking about manufacturing...which incidentally they were only able to pass us in recent years with a population more than 3 times ours.

Anyway there are valuable resources in the SCS not to mention the free flow of goods that is important to our allies and the world in general plus the overall ability to represent our interests globally. We'll never be able to totally counterbalance China but we have a reasonable bulwark against too many shenanigans. You need a navy and air force presence or one that is quickly deployable to remain credible.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,674
7,170
136
Let's start this post by mentioning that here in Hawaii, our Filipino community is the largest ethnic group in the Islands.

That being said, recent Filipino immigrants and/or their sponsors that I work with have mentioned that due to Duterte's actions, they were quite nervous over their being deported before attaining the coveted US citizenship they're hoping to acquire.

All of those that I listened to are pro-USA, yet are somewhat divided in their support for Duterte. The majority I spoke with have the desire to work hard, qualify for Social Security, earn their pensions and then move back home to the Philippines in retirement.

Duterte's actions, although not a direct threat to their retirement plans, is still cause for concern for them.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
Quite frankly, with all the rape and sex slavery being done by the US soldiers in the Philippines, I'm with Duterte on this one.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...history-with-prostitution-gets-new-attention/

Maybe having your soldiers rape women with impunity isn't such a good idea.

There are no US soldiers rampantly raping women in the Philippines.

You are not familiar with the term "Hammer" to begin with, it appears.


The new Government has pretty much went open season on randomly killing people in the street there atm.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,396
126
He is backtracking.

Philippines President Rodrigo Duterte has clarified his comments that seemed to call for a split from the United States, saying he was advocating a "separation of foreign policy" rather than "a severance of ties."

Addressing a press conference in Davao City after his return from a state visit to China, Duterte said:

"It is not severance of ties. You say severance of ties, you cut the diplomatic relations. I cannot do that.

"Why? It is in the best interest of my country that we maintain that relationship. Why? Because there are many Filipinos in the United States. Well, Americans of Filipino ancestry.

"Why? Because the people of my country [are] not ready to accept. I said separation -- what I was really saying was separation of a foreign policy. "

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/21/asia/duterte-china-philippines-us/index.html
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,674
7,170
136

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
The US and the Philippines have been parting ways for awhile now.

Subic Bay was shut down in 1992.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Naval_Base_Subic_Bay

This was largely due to Mt. Pinatubo erupting and wiping out Subic Bay and Clark Air Base. There was some discontent with the presence of the U.S. Military mainly because a few years prior Ferdinand Marcos was ousted a president. He was basically a dictator who got very wealthy off U.S. support while doing very little for the country over many decades. He also spent most of the money of projects in his home province while punishing any opposition. With the cost of rebuilding the bases the decision was made to close them.

I think you will find a majority of Filipinos are not pleased with Duterte cozying up to China.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,674
7,170
136
This was largely due to Mt. Pinatubo erupting and wiping out Subic Bay and Clark Air Base. There was some discontent with the presence of the U.S. Military mainly because a few years prior Ferdinand Marcos was ousted a president. He was basically a dictator who got very wealthy off U.S. support while doing very little for the country over many decades. He also spent most of the money of projects in his home province while punishing any opposition. With the cost of rebuilding the bases the decision was made to close them.

I think you will find a majority of Filipinos are not pleased with Duterte cozying up to China.

I have confirmed this with every Filipino friend I have asked. Most are in a quandary over their liking the strong arm Duterte is flexing over his attempting to get rid of the huge illegal drug problem they have, but are afraid of how Duterte may make long established relations with the USA rot on the vine.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
136
Good to know. Thanks.

However, his shaky stance on this issue seems to reflect a kind of naivete or lack of experience/situational awareness in dealing with foreign affairs.

Such being the case, I can see him saying things with bravado and then having to "clarify what he really meant to say" more often than not.

Yeah, all that and he is a thin skinned narcissist who went postal on the US for criticizing his bloody drug war. Hmm, who does all this remind you of?
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
This was largely due to Mt. Pinatubo erupting and wiping out Subic Bay and Clark Air Base. There was some discontent with the presence of the U.S. Military mainly because a few years prior Ferdinand Marcos was ousted a president. He was basically a dictator who got very wealthy off U.S. support while doing very little for the country over many decades. He also spent most of the money of projects in his home province while punishing any opposition. With the cost of rebuilding the bases the decision was made to close them.

I think you will find a majority of Filipinos are not pleased with Duterte cozying up to China.

Probably not.

 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
This was largely due to Mt. Pinatubo erupting and wiping out Subic Bay and Clark Air Base. There was some discontent with the presence of the U.S. Military mainly because a few years prior Ferdinand Marcos was ousted a president. He was basically a dictator who got very wealthy off U.S. support while doing very little for the country over many decades. He also spent most of the money of projects in his home province while punishing any opposition. With the cost of rebuilding the bases the decision was made to close them.

I think you will find a majority of Filipinos are not pleased with Duterte cozying up to China.

That's not accurate. The US withdrew after failing to reach a status of forces agreement with the Philippine govt in 1992.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Naval_Base_Subic_Bay#Closure

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Clark_Air_Base#Closure
 
Reactions: MongGrel

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,676
43,923
136
I have confirmed this with every Filipino friend I have asked. Most are in a quandary over their liking the strong arm Duterte is flexing over his attempting to get rid of the huge illegal drug problem they have, but are afraid of how Duterte may make long established relations with the USA rot on the vine.
They where very pissed off about China building those islands in the scs...
 

MajinCry

Platinum Member
Jul 28, 2015
2,495
571
136
You have no idea what you are talking about.

I've seen this response twice now. When it came to the mass rape in Vietnam, ol' Magnus said the same thing. Quoted the hundred odd veterans that testified to it, and he just ghosted. Same thing that happened with Piasabird and the shit the Native Americans go through.

I dunno, I guess it's just some sort of huff-come-defense tactic.

Anywho, let's begin!

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2012/02/116_105839.html

Prostitution ― widespread in Korea ― has long been an issue at “camptowns” outside bases such as Osan Airbase and Camp Humphreys in Songtan and Pyeongtaek, and Camp Casey in Dongducheon as a remnant of the 1950-53 Korean War.

In the decades following the war, scholars and former Korean prostitutes say the Korean government encouraged the activities as a source of hard currency and a safeguard against the U.S. leaving the country.

But with the nation’s economic rise, the jobs have largely been outsourced to foreign women, now mostly Filipinas, said You Young-nim, director of My Sister’s Place, a group that offers them counseling.

She estimated that thousands of them now work in “juicy bars” outside the bases, saying soldiers ― despite the military’s “zero-tolerance policy” toward prostitution ― buy glasses of juice in order to spend time, flirt and dance with the women. Those women who fail to meet a quota for juice sales are often subject to “bar fines,” meaning they are told to sell their body to account for the shortfall, she said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-agents-military-idUSBRE83S09620120429
last week a Pentagon spokesman pledged to keep McCain and other lawmakers as informed as possible as the investigation proceeds.

Senator Lindsey Graham, a Republican on the armed services committee, said he doubts that the military is enforcing its strict prostitution rules.

"The honest truth is probably no," said Graham, a former Air Force lawyer.

...


The order spelled out offenses and penalties and gave the military a tough enforcement tool - if it chose to use it - for behavior that, as Graham said, had "been around military bases as long as there has been a military."

Lawrence Korb, a former defense official, said that while he has heard stories of wayward military personnel since his time in Vietnam, "we've never heard anything about the Secret Service before."

Korb, now a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress, said it is unclear how often the military services impose the harsh written policies for personnel using prostitutes.

"I've never seen anybody go to jail," he said.

...

Graham said one reason for the effort is that military personnel assigned to other countries must adapt to local customs and morals. "If there was an effort to visit prostitutes in Afghanistan, we would come down hard. Simply because it's a cultural no-no in Afghanistan, it would bring wrath upon us," he said.

A fairly decent first hand report from one of the sex trafficking victims: http://www.equalitynow.org/campaigns/trafficking-survivor-stories/alma

'Nother good article: http://www.politico.eu/article/my-body-was-not-mine-but-the-u-s-militarys/


I think the refusal to even look at the problem, stems from the soldier worship you guys have in the US. The soldiers are oft. portrayed as victims who were sucked into the war machine, who do no wrong and are morally upstanding heroes who fight for America's freedom.

It ain't anywhere close to that, but the telly will tell you otherwise.
 
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