Philly public buses must run ads linking Muslims to Hitler

[werepossum]

This. The ad is protected speech. Government is not obligated to rent out ad space but where it chooses to do so, it doesn't get to pick favorites.

Yep. Although if I rode the bus, I'd be pissed that my fares were going up simply because someone was being a dick.

Hitler being dead seventy years, I can't imagine these adverts not being counterproductive and actually engendering sympathy for Muslims. Beyond that, Israel gets a big chunk of our borrowed Chinese lucre as well, and if we ended all foreign aid to Islamic countries I can't imagine aid to Israel continuing.

I say we change all foreign aid to performance-based, starting at zero for everyone. If you want American loot, come to us with a plan for what we propose to do for us. If we like your proposal, we'll negotiate compensation. Or we'll offer a counter-proposal. Want three billion for not attacking Israel this year? Our counter offer is we won't destroy your army and national infrastructure if you don't attack Israel this year.

 

[glenn1]

So, you expect me to go to the crazy person you pissed off to the point of murder and convince them to not kill you?

And, since I won't, that makes me an apologist for the person you are intended to drive to a murderous rage?

Yeah, enough of this.

You are hiding behind the claim of Freedom of Speech, just to piss off people. That makes you coward, not some truth speaking paragon of freedom and justice. You are a baiter, and a pretty cowardly and dumb one at that.

I don't want you doing anything you goddamn imbecile. I'm not worried about some crazy person killing me and the last fucking thing I'd want is you talking to them. You are the absolute worst enemy the first amendment and freedom could possibly have.

If someone reading this wants to do me harm then fuck you too for proving the point of the bus ad that you're a goddamn savage who can't get beyond your own hate.

 

[Newell Steamer]

Freedom of speech is absolutely the freedom to offend. You have the right to say things people do not like. The problem happens when people like you don't understand that. Rights should not end where people's feelings begin.

I would bet the problem, is that you are not thinking about the implications of your beliefs. Some may find the statement Mohammed was a pedophile to be offensive. According to the Sunni Hadith, Mohammed had sex with Aisha when she was 9, but a pedophile is bad and thus offensive. Should people not be allowed to say that Mohammed is a pedophile?

I don't understand, what, exactly?

Freedom of speech is not the freedom to offend.

Nonetheless, I've been pretty clear about this, many times. You can indeed say whatever you want. No one can stop you. Same way no one will stop all of the radical crazies that want kill you, for pissing them off.

But, when you get your head caved in, don't expect me to rally by your side and demand ALL Muslims be wiped out - because you are purposely going out of your way to incite and get a violent reaction from a group you are clearly fearful and bigoted towards to.

You are going out of your way to omit specific points to make this into something else.

Good luck with that.

 

[realibrad]

So, you expect me to go to the crazy person you pissed off to the point of murder and convince them to not kill you?

And, since I won't, that makes me an apologist for the person you are intended to drive to a murderous rage?

Yeah, enough of this.

You are hiding behind the claim of Freedom of Speech, just to piss off people. That makes you coward, not some truth speaking paragon of freedom and justice. You are a baiter, and a pretty cowardly and dumb one at that.

A person who wants to kill you because they are offended, is indeed a crazy person. For the rest of us, we simply have to suck it up if we dont like something. The reason we have freedom of speech, is because a society without it is fucked up. Freedom of speech is one way you can stop the spreading of misinformation. It can be used for good or bad.

Think of it like this. A lot of rape includes a penis. You dont see a lot of penis banning laws, because a lot of people like penises. You do see some people being anti-penis, but the rest of us are allowed to talk about penis which counters the anti-penis speech.

 

[realibrad]

I don't understand, what, exactly?



You are going out of your way to omit specific points to make this into something else.

Good luck with that.

You said...

Freedom of speech is not the freedom to offend.

So I said...

Freedom of speech is absolutely the freedom to offend. You have the right to say things people do not like. The problem happens when people like you don't understand that

One of the definitions of the word "That" is as follows.

referring to a specific thing previously mentioned, known, or understood.

Does that clear it up for you?

 

[Newell Steamer]

I don't want you doing anything you goddamn imbecile. I'm not worried about some crazy person killing me and the last fucking thing I'd want is you talking to them. You are the absolute worst enemy the first amendment and freedom could possibly have.

If someone reading this wants to do me harm then fuck you too for proving the point of the bus ad that you're a goddamn savage who can't get beyond your own hate.

I'd gladly take the title of imbecile than raging idiot that is fearful of his own shadow.

Really glenn - someone is reading your comments and plotting to come get you?

Is your mind that defective & alarmist that you can't have a conversation on the pragmatic reality of the situation being discussed, that you resort to:
- labeling me a enemy of the US
- labeling me an apologist and defender of murderers
- cooking up a boogieman that is reading your comments and tracking you to kill you

The truth is this, you don't care about freedom of speech - you are hiding behind that idea, purely to incite and anger a specific group of people you are afraid of.

The real enemy is you - for using freedom of speech to cover your hate of Muslims AND siding with someone who does not have American's best interests in mind (Geller).

I bet you've never even seen a Muslim in person.

 

[glenn1]

The truth is this, you don't care about freedom of speech - you are hiding behind that idea, purely to incite and anger a specific group of people you are afraid of.

Freedom of speech is the right to say exactly that, to anger and incite. And the obligation to take the consequences. If you don't get that, then you live in the wrong country.

 

[Newell Steamer]

wut? That is literally exactly what it is. Precisely and exactly. I can offend you without being charged for a crime. Whether I am attacked for it is immaterial, as that attack is also illegal and no government ever guarantees protection from violence at all times.

These ads seem the humorous result of subsidizing public services with private advertising. In most other areas whoever sells ad space decides arbitrarily if they want to sell it to you or not but here they are caught in a legal corner--and rightfully so. If they don't like it they need to jack up rates and stop advertising or privatize in some manner to preempt the 1st amendment, which does not compel a private entity from representing a view against its permission.

My fault for not being clear - freedom of speech is not freedom to offend without consequences.

You are right - no government is going to stop you from offending someone (as is the result in this case).

However, no government is going to be able to stop the consequences of your offensive act. They will obviously punish your murderer,... but, what does that do you for, when you've been killed by them?

 

[glenn1]

My fault for not being clear - freedom of speech is not freedom to offend without consequences.

You are right - no government is going to stop you from offending someone (as is the result in this case).

However, no government is going to be able to stop the consequences of your offensive act. They will obviously punish your murderer,... but, what does that do you for, when you've been killed by them?

And I have no true desire to go around insulting people for no reason. To me it's a matter of mutual respect, I won't deliberately insult you but you have the obligation to not seek out a reason to be insulted. But likewise I won't prevent others from saying nasty things about you (like Westboro Baptist Church) but will denouce them for saying ridiculous things myself.

In this particular case, I have nothing for or against Muslims but do have something big against those who try to limit the human rights of others (like freedom of speech) by means of violence or the threat of it. If something like the below makes you murderous then I'm going to go out of my way to expose you to it every chance I get because exposure is the best way to draw out the crazies. The best part about free speech is that by watching others' reactions to it, you can pick out and ignore the crazies by their reactions.

 

[OutHouse]

May 2015, Geller has scheduled a "Draw the Prophet" cartoon contest in Garland, Texas, at the same site where a Muslim group held a "Stand With the Prophet" event in January 2015

Lol

 

[blake0812]

Freedom of speech is not the freedom to offend.

Except it is.

 

[Newell Steamer]

Except it is.

This was the point wanted to make; Freedom of speech is not the freedom to offend without consequences.

Even though I missed those last two words, I was pretty clear that no one was going to stop you, nor should they.

 

[alzan]

Freedom of speech is the right to say exactly that, to anger and incite. And the obligation to take the consequences. If you don't get that, then you live in the wrong country.

You might want to check with the USSC and various free speech cases; you do not have the right to incite to violence or riot.

 

[realibrad]

This was the point wanted to make; Freedom of speech is not the freedom to offend without consequences.

Even though I missed those last two words, I was pretty clear that no one was going to stop you, nor should they.

Only some of the consequences are allowed. Many may do stuff not allowed, but that is not the point.

 

[Genx87]

This is rather surprising to me. I thought the govt in this capacity had a right to limit what is displayed on their property. This is an advertisement space on public transit not some public square.

 

[fskimospy]

This is rather surprising to me. I thought the govt in this capacity had a right to limit what is displayed on their property. This is an advertisement space on public transit not some public square.

They have a right to close spaces to public speech (ie: they don't have to have ads on their buses at all). Once they decide to open an area to speech it is really hard for them to discriminate based on the content of that speech. It would basically have to be obscene, defamatory, inciting violence, or something like that.

It's sort of like the stupid nativity scene stuff every year. There's no requirement that any town open up any part of their land for religious displays. Once they do it though, they have to accommodate just about everyone.

 

[Knowing]

I shouldn't be surprised at yet another batch of ridiculous hypocrisy over who's allowed to be offended and about what.

 

[FerrelGeek]

This ruling could be used by someone to run anti-semitic ads too, and Pamela Geller will be the first to cry victim.

Oh well; sucks to be her in that case, doesn't it?

 

[marincounty]

Wait, I thought arabs did align with hitler during wwII?

 

[boomerang]

I just don't see how these ads will result in more savagery with a well thought out jobs program in place for radical Muslims. Does not compute.

 

[boomerang]

You might want to check with the USSC and various free speech cases; you do not have the right to incite to violence or riot.

Has anyone told Holder? He really wound them up in Ferguson.

 

[cabri]

Wait, I thought arabs did align with hitler during wwII?

there is a difference between the truth and the presentation in how it is being presented.

 

[glenn1]

there is a difference between the truth and the presentation in how it is being presented.

Aligning yourself with Hitler means you no longer have the right to a favorable narrative or presentation. If anything the Arabs should post counter advertising with apologies to the Jewsbfor being dicks and joining the Axis.

 

[fskimospy]

Wait, I thought arabs did align with hitler during wwII?

That's like saying the Finns aligned with Hitler. Both are technically true, but may be missing some (read: A LOT OF) context.

 

[werepossum]

Wait, I thought arabs did align with hitler during wwII?

Many did. Others did not. As always, we rewarded those on our side and punished those on Hitler's side. And the vast majority of Arabs and Muslims took no active side. Thus it's not accurate to say the "The Muslims" or "The Arabs" sided with Hitler. If they wish to point out individual rulers who sided with Hitler, I have no problem with that, and I dare say neither will the dead men.

I have no real problem either with them pointing out that the Quran calls for murdering Jews. But this seems to me to be clumsy, counterproductive and, well, generally dickish. One might as well paint a giant sign with Stella Kubler and proclaim that the Jews were in league with Hitler. (Well, admittedly that would be a couple orders of magnitude worse distortion, but it's the same principle, and Stella Kubler would make a hell of a lot more attractive bus poster.)