Phone manufacturers should go more into the removable battery route.

[ChronoReverse]

OP's about buying a BRAND NEW phone and using it for 4 years. That's what I'm talking about and, frankly, that should be the topic of discussion.

No, the topic is that more phone manufacturers should do removable batteries for their phones (presumably in the future since it's not like they'll jury-rig existing phones).

Which is why all the rhetoric about how you don't have choice of phones to buy with removable storage is merely smoke and mirrors.

Since there's little-to-no trade-offs to include a removable battery, the topic title assertion stands.

 

[SpongeBob]

Since there's little-to-no trade-offs to include a removable battery, the topic title assertion stands.

Just because you keep saying this doesn't make it true. If I have an S4 and want a 3500mah battery it's going to be significantly thicker than a Maxx. Never mind that the aftermarket battery is not nearly as good as the oem.

 

[Dari]

No, the topic is that more phone manufacturers should do removable batteries for their phones (presumably in the future since it's not like they'll jury-rig existing phones).

Which is why all the rhetoric about how you don't have choice of phones to buy with removable storage is merely smoke and mirrors.

Since there's little-to-no trade-offs to include a removable battery, the topic title assertion stands.

Welsh is primarily focused on the purchase of used phones, which is not the OP's primary concern. The topic is about batteries but the focus is on batteries for new, not used, phones.

 

[ChronoReverse]

Just because you keep saying this doesn't make it true. If I have an S4 and want a 3500mah battery it's going to be significantly thicker than a Maxx. Never mind that the aftermarket battery is not nearly as good as the oem.

Will it?


The GS4 is thinner than the HTC One and Xperia Z but features a larger battery. The Razr MAXX's (nice phones btw) with sealed 3300mAh (not 3500mAh) are both thicker than the GS4.

There already is an aftermarket battery that uses the standard door of the GS4 (i.e., doesn't add thickness) that's 3000mAh. This particular manufacturer (ZeroLemon) has a decent reputation so it's not like it's going to fall far short of the rating.

It certainly doesn't seem to me that your assertion is necessarily true while it already is proven that a phone can be thinner and pack a larger removable battery.


Maybe you're the one who's parroting something thinking it'll become true.

 

[Zaap]

Just because you keep saying this doesn't make it true. If I have an S4 and want a 3500mah battery it's going to be significantly thicker than a Maxx. Never mind that the aftermarket battery is not nearly as good as the oem.

Why do you keep coming up with these false goalpost arguments? No one needs to get one of those super-thick batteries for the S4 if all they want is a standard replacement, and most of the really thick ones are like 5200/7500 mAh and above, not 3500mAh.

And it's not a blanket statement that aftermarket batteries are not as good as the OEM- aftermarket batteries I've gotten for my SGS3 and Note2 are every bit as good as the original, not to mention if they weren't I could just buy OEM replacements.

 

[WelshBloke]

Welsh is primarily focused on the purchase of used phones, which is not the OP's primary concern. The topic is about batteries but the focus is on batteries for new, not used, phones.

Doesn't really matter if the phone has had 1 or 2 owners, a 4 year old phone is going to be better with a new battery.

 

[SpongeBob]

The GS4 is thinner than the HTC One and Xperia Z but features a larger battery. The Razr MAXX's (nice phones btw) with sealed 3300mAh (not 3500mAh) are both thicker than the GS4.

Droid Maxx is 3500mah. Razr Maxx is previous gen. As openwheel pointed out, apples vs. oranges. Even Droid Maxx vs. S4 is not a great comparison since they don't have identical components. The fact is that all else being equal a removable battery results in a thicker device than a sealed battery due to packaging constraints. What you keep saying is simply not true.

 

[ChronoReverse]

Droid Maxx is 3500mah. Razr Maxx is previous gen. As openwheel pointed out, apples vs. oranges. Even Droid Maxx vs. S4 is not a great comparison since they don't have identical components. The fact is that all else being equal a removable battery results in a thicker device than a sealed battery due to packaging constraints. What you keep saying is simply not true.

You haven't proven it! The Droid Maxx and the S4 are tremendously different so why are you even bringing it up? The Droid Maxx is THICKER so what's the point of even using it as an example? Are you TRYING to be disingenuous?


Look at my examples, the HTC One and to a less degree the Xperia Z. At least I'm actually trying to give examples of phones that actually fit. Phones that are similar except the GS4 packs a LARGER battery in a THINNER device. You can't even name a device that's thinner than the GS4 but with a larger sealed battery.

Are you actually going to address this or will you continue with the smoke and mirrors this thread is filled with?

 

[SpongeBob]

Why do you keep coming up with these false goalpost arguments? No one needs to get one of those super-thick batteries for the S4 if all they want is a standard replacement, and most of the really thick ones are like 5200/7500 mAh and above, not 3500mAh.

And it's not a blanket statement that aftermarket batteries are not as good as the OEM- aftermarket batteries I've gotten for my SGS3 and Note2 are every bit as good as the original, not to mention if they weren't I could just buy OEM replacements.

See above, there are packaging constraints that come with a removable battery that result in a thicker overall device. To say there is "no trade" is just not true. That is all I'm saying. I personally do not make my decision on sealed vs. removable battery, but understand that others do. I think it's great that there are both options out there.

And I agree, my blanket statement about aftermarket batteries is not 100% true, but really the overwhelming majority of aftermarket batteries that flood the market are junk and not close to their advertised capacity. There are some reputable manufacturers though. Unfortunately, the oems don't really seem to make as many extended batteries as they have in the past.

 

[ChronoReverse]

See above, there are packaging constraints that come with a removable battery that result in a thicker overall device. To say there is "no trade" is just not true. That is all I'm saying.

And you have yet to name even a single device that's thinner yet has a larger sealed battery. You mentioned the Droid Razr Maxx but that's a thicker phone in the first place.

And instead, we have an example of an actual phone with a larger battery being thinner. Which can comfortably hold a 3000mAh battery if NFC was taken out (to make it more fair to compare to the Droid Maxx).

It may certainly be true that a sealed battery results in a thinner phone but that difference is likely incredibly small that factors like better engineering (i.e., having parts that fit together with screws instead of having copper tape everywhere) more than covers the difference.

 

[SpongeBob]

You haven't proven it! The Droid Maxx and the S4 are tremendously different so why are you even bringing it up? The Droid Maxx is THICKER so what's the point of even using it as an example? Are you TRYING to be disingenuous?


Look at my examples, the HTC One and to a less degree the Xperia Z. At least I'm actually trying to give examples of phones that actually fit. Phones that are similar except the GS4 packs a LARGER battery in a THINNER device. You can't even name a device that's thinner than the GS4 but with a larger sealed battery.

Are you actually going to address this or will you continue with the smoke and mirrors this thread is filled with?

There are no manufacturers that make the exact same device but with both sealed and removable battery options so how am i supposed to prove this by using actual devices? Do some research into battery packaging, if you want to make a battery that is designed to be handled by a consumer it has to have certain packaging features that make the assembly larger.

 

[SpongeBob]

And you have yet to name even a single device that's thinner yet has a larger battery. You mentioned the Droid Razr Maxx but that's a thicker phone in the first place

Actually I mentioned the Droid Maxx which is different that the Droid Razr Maxx (as well as different from the Droid Razr Maxx HD) as a reasonable close comparison but then stated that it was still not great because they are different devices with different components and features.

 

[ChronoReverse]

There are no manufacturers that make the exact same device but with both sealed and removable battery options so how am i supposed to prove this by using actual devices? Do some research into battery packaging, if you want to make a battery that is designed to be handled by a consumer it has to have certain packaging features that make the assembly larger.

Then don't say it as if it were proven while simultaneously saying I'm wrong. There's at least more evidence that sealed batteries only save a marginal amount of space.

In the end, that difference of thickness (between the Droid Maxx and GS4) can easily account for the mere 500mAh in capacities if using the less conservative ZeroLemon battery or even the 900mAh with stock batteries.

 

[SpongeBob]

Then don't say it as if it were proven while simultaneously saying I'm wrong. There's at least more evidence that sealed batteries only save a marginal amount of space.

In the end, that difference of thickness can easily account for the mere 500mAh in capacities.

There you go, you proved my original point, there IS a trade. Maybe about 500mah. Please stop saying there is no trade.

 

[ChronoReverse]

There you go, you proved my original point, there IS a trade. Maybe about 500mah. Please stop saying there is no trade.

It's not the same thickness. So there is no trade.

I JUST said that if the GS4 had the extra thickness along with being wide and taller to match the Droid Maxx's dimensions (not to mention packing a higher resolution screen and faster CPU) then it'd probably be able to pack in a 3500mAh battery because it makes for a noticeably larger phone.

See what I mean about being disingenuous? You keep saying "my point is proven" without actually doing so. At least I can cite an example to _show_ my point.

 

[openwheel]

The GS4 is thinner than the HTC One and Xperia Z but features a larger battery. The Razr MAXX's (nice phones btw) with sealed 3300mAh (not 3500mAh) are both thicker than the GS4........

You are still choosing between different designs, brands, and screen sizes. The analogy is simply false. Apples and oranges. You failed to respond to his analogy: putting the same battery in MAXX and still get the thin profile.

 

[openwheel]

.......

Since there's little-to-no trade-offs to include a removable battery, the topic title assertion stands.......

.......It's not the same thickness. So there is no trade.....

which one is it????

 

[Zaap]

See above, there are packaging constraints that come with a removable battery that result in a thicker overall device.

I wasn't even arguing that point, but it's not a blanket statement of truth either. The S4 is just about as thin as an iPhone 5, and thinner than the HTC One.

To say there is "no trade" is just not true. That is all I'm saying. I personally do not make my decision on sealed vs. removable battery, but understand that others do. I think it's great that there are both options out there.

I'd simply say there's "no trade" that I care about, and the positives greatly outweigh the negatives. Even the build-quality argument isn't that persuasive since I prefer to be able to choose my own aftermarket battery doors that are better quality than the original, or with more features like wireless charging.

And I agree, my blanket statement about aftermarket batteries is not 100% true, but really the overwhelming majority of aftermarket batteries that flood the market are junk and not close to their advertised capacity. There are some reputable manufacturers though.

The same is true of all accessories for any device. Stick with reputable makes of whatever it is you want (cables, chargers, batteries, cases, whatever) and all the junk in the world doesn't affect you.

 

[SpongeBob]

It's not the same thickness. So there is no trade.

I JUST said that if the GS4 had the extra thickness along with being wide and taller to match the Droid Maxx's dimensions (not to mention packing a higher resolution screen and faster CPU) then it'd probably be able to pack in a 3500mAh battery because it makes for a noticeably larger phone.

See what I mean about being disingenuous? You keep saying "my point is proven" without actually doing so. At least I can cite an example to _show_ my point.

You agreed that there is a trade in volume versus capacity for a removable vs. sealed battery. The only way I could prove this with a physical example of a device is if I had two of the exact same devices one with sealed and one with removable. I do not know of any so I'm sorry that I cannot come up with a physical example so that you can comprehend it. For the rest of us that understand physics, it is obvious, if I decide to build a device and want an arbitrary battery capacity, the smallest manifestation will be with a sealed battery since everything else is the same and only the battery volume is different.

 

[openwheel]

.......

It may certainly be true that a sealed battery results in a thinner phone but that difference is likely incredibly small that factors like better engineering ......

Aha!!!! You nailed it. Don't forget the smallest saving in thickness creates a whole lot more battery space.

 

[ChronoReverse]

which one is it????

You know, I throw you guys bones so I hedge my comments by saying "little-to-no" instead of just saying it's BS.

Then I get it thrown in my face.

Of course, I get to throw it back since I had said:

There is no trade.




So we have a LARGER phone with *GASP* as LARGER battery capacity. And you guys will continue to jump on semantics as if that somehow proves anything. Wake me up when a phone with either the same size or smaller with larger capacity shows up.

 

[SpongeBob]

I'd simply say there's "no trade" that I care about, and the positives greatly outweigh the negatives. Even the build-quality argument isn't that persuasive since I prefer to be able to choose my own aftermarket battery doors that are better quality than the original, or with more features like wireless charging.

THIS! That is all I'm saying. Unfortunately ChronoReverse does not see it. He keeps saying there is no trade, which is ridiculous.

 

[ChronoReverse]

And I will continue to say it until a smaller phone comes out with a sealed larger capacity battery.

Seriously, I love the existence of the GS4. I bet it grates that you can't cite examples.


I do wonder if this discussion would exist if the HTC One had been the one with the removable and larger battery. Or the iPhone. I know my stance wouldn't have changed since I'm actually attempting to be objective with examples.

 

[Crono]

The only big trade-off of having removable batteries is you lose unibody design. That's pretty much it. Anyone else saying otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about, as any other issue can easily be engineered around. And I'm saying that as someone who doesn't "require" removable batteries. I personally am not opposed to having removable batteries, and I can see the usefulness, but I only "need" built-in.

I'm using quotation marks to emphasize that it really isn't that important one way or the other. I'm tired of hearing both sides overstate their arguments. I have a One and am happy to use it without removable batteries, but I also have two other phones that do have removable batteries. I'm not really suffering from either route. If you need them, that's great; if you don't, well, that's fine, too.

The same is true for the external storage debate. If you are part of the 5 to 20% or whatever that "needs" it, fine, and if you don't, good. Saves some cash. There are great devices in either category.

 

[ChronoReverse]

The only big trade-off having a removable batteries is you lose unibody design.

See, here's something objective and true. You won't see me arguing against that.

(and unibody is nice. I liked my HTC One X quite a lot)