PhysX videos... seems like its not being used in the right way yet

Polish3d

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2005
5,501
0
0
I watched a few of those videos... and... well... "Yay"

5000 tubes and cinder blocks flying around... great... even more unrealistic ... how about making fully destructable environments and such. JMO, that is the way to make this thing useful and a positive addition, no way I'm paying 300 bucks to watch a bunch of gas pipes fly around as though I were playing Gary's Mod on HL2
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
the use in the new Ghost Recon for PC is great looking, objects explode the way you'd expect them to.
 
Jan 3, 2005
136
0
0
Originally posted by: Frackal
I watched a few of those videos... and... well... "Yay"

5000 tubes and cinder blocks flying around... great... even more unrealistic ... how about making fully destructable environments and such. JMO, that is the way to make this thing useful and a positive addition, no way I'm paying 300 bucks to watch a bunch of gas pipes fly around as though I were playing Gary's Mod on HL2

So don't buy it if you really think thats all the card will be used for.
 

Polish3d

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2005
5,501
0
0
Originally posted by: JamesDax
Originally posted by: Frackal
I watched a few of those videos... and... well... "Yay"

5000 tubes and cinder blocks flying around... great... even more unrealistic ... how about making fully destructable environments and such. JMO, that is the way to make this thing useful and a positive addition, no way I'm paying 300 bucks to watch a bunch of gas pipes fly around as though I were playing Gary's Mod on HL2

So don't buy it if you really think thats all the card will be used for.

Holy ****** man, you are incredibly helpful.
 
Jun 14, 2003
10,442
0
0
red faction.....now there was a game.

i remember hiding behind some massive boulders in a canyon with some turret trying to blast the ****** out of me, and i remember having to switch which rock i hid behind every 2 mins because they were being destroy'd

and i liked the fact you didnt have to use the doors, just blow a hole in the wall !

i had fun in the wierd demo level thing....i dug a huge hole with a rocket launcher then got stuck down it.
 

GnomeCop

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2002
3,864
0
76
the videos for cellfactor and the like are kinda cool, but after awhile seem almost comical hahah
 

stelleg151

Senior member
Sep 2, 2004
822
0
0
I think destructable environments require more than just physics processing, I think they probably require far more ram, or at least better memory management. Think of it this way, if you break down 40 walls, your computer needs to remember where all those little pieces are, not just be able to calculate how they will react to collisions.
 

Polish3d

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2005
5,501
0
0
Originally posted by: stelleg151
I think destructable environments require more than just physics processing, I think they probably require far more ram, or at least better memory management. Think of it this way, if you break down 40 walls, your computer needs to remember where all those little pieces are, not just be able to calculate how they will react to collisions.

How would that be different from 300 gas tanks?
 

Polish3d

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2005
5,501
0
0
IMO it's probably just because these games weren't developed with this as an intricate part so they threw in a bunch of barrels and gast tanks

Once this thing (hopefully) gets cheaper and becomes more useful I'll get one
 

Polish3d

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2005
5,501
0
0
Honestly though, I wanted to add I have been pretty turned off by PC gaming after putting together this system below... very little has come out that has been impressive but the expense continues to climb....perhaps Crysis and UE3 will help.
 

T101

Senior member
Oct 13, 1999
558
0
0
I have to agree with Frackal; very little in the ways of good PC games have come out for a very long time. Last good game I played was Advent Rising, and before that; Half-life 2.
I payed a large sum to get this PC, and then I had up upgrade the graphics card in order to run Fear and later on Oblivion. Oblivion got delayed, and now it barely runs ok on the low end with the graphics card I bought. So it is once again time to buy a new graphics card, for the price os 6000 Swedish KR, half the price of a new PC; or if you only require the PC for office use; the whole price of the PC.
Three graphics cards for each a price between 3000-6000 SKR in one and a half year? sure is very expensive to play PC games. And now it seems there are very little comming out that can be called a good game.

I wish I had spent my cash on an xbox360 instead. Especially since it seems that the developers are bringing out the big guns when it comes to designing games and giving them good game play there, plus they optimize for the hardware available, so that the xbox360 does things you can only dream about on the PC, even though you have hardware that should be capable of handling it....

It is time to face the music, PC gaming is finally heading towards it grave. This has been said many times before. But this is the first time I believe it to be true. And if it is not true, then at least it is the death of innovative game-play and new ideas for games.
 

DeathReborn

Platinum Member
Oct 11, 2005
2,758
754
136
Originally posted by: Frackal
I watched a few of those videos... and... well... "Yay"

5000 tubes and cinder blocks flying around... great... even more unrealistic ... how about making fully destructable environments and such. JMO, that is the way to make this thing useful and a positive addition, no way I'm paying 300 bucks to watch a bunch of gas pipes fly around as though I were playing Gary's Mod on HL2

Somebody posted a video of Physics in Gary's Mod in HL2 using loads of Watermelons, suffice to say it became a slideshow. PhysX should rectify that and in the process possibly raise the FPS in games that use the card (assuming the game itself is CPU limited).

You're paying $300 to relieve the stress on your PC, have more realistic physics & lets not forget, things doing what their supposed to (clipping should be helped too).
 

firewolfsm

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2005
1,848
29
91
Originally posted by: DeathReborn
Originally posted by: Frackal
I watched a few of those videos... and... well... "Yay"

5000 tubes and cinder blocks flying around... great... even more unrealistic ... how about making fully destructable environments and such. JMO, that is the way to make this thing useful and a positive addition, no way I'm paying 300 bucks to watch a bunch of gas pipes fly around as though I were playing Gary's Mod on HL2

Somebody posted a video of Physics in Gary's Mod in HL2 using loads of Watermelons, suffice to say it became a slideshow. PhysX should rectify that and in the process possibly raise the FPS in games that use the card (assuming the game itself is CPU limited).

You're paying $300 to relieve the stress on your PC, have more realistic physics & lets not forget, things doing what their supposed to (clipping should be helped too).

can you link that? I looked but can't find it.
 

TanisHalfElven

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2001
3,520
0
76
Originally posted by: T101
I have to agree with Frackal; very little in the ways of good PC games have come out for a very long time. Last good game I played was Advent Rising, and before that; Half-life 2.
I payed a large sum to get this PC, and then I had up upgrade the graphics card in order to run Fear and later on Oblivion. Oblivion got delayed, and now it barely runs ok on the low end with the graphics card I bought. So it is once again time to buy a new graphics card, for the price os 6000 Swedish KR, half the price of a new PC; or if you only require the PC for office use; the whole price of the PC.
Three graphics cards for each a price between 3000-6000 SKR in one and a half year? sure is very expensive to play PC games. And now it seems there are very little comming out that can be called a good game.

I wish I had spent my cash on an xbox360 instead. Especially since it seems that the developers are bringing out the big guns when it comes to designing games and giving them good game play there, plus they optimize for the hardware available, so that the xbox360 does things you can only dream about on the PC, even though you have hardware that should be capable of handling it....

It is time to face the music, PC gaming is finally heading towards it grave. This has been said many times before. But this is the first time I believe it to be true. And if it is not true, then at least it is the death of innovative game-play and new ideas for games.


hate to mention it but you sound a like rich spoiled brt. really you got as freaking 7800gt and your complaining. STFU. i play oblivion on the rig below. i'm happy.
as for the physx. its really new. no ones taking advatage of it. 2 year from now you'll dig out this thread and laugh at the loosers who doubted the physx card.
 

SpeedZealot369

Platinum Member
Feb 5, 2006
2,778
1
81
Originally posted by: T101
I have to agree with Frackal; very little in the ways of good PC games have come out for a very long time. Last good game I played was Advent Rising, and before that; Half-life 2.
I payed a large sum to get this PC, and then I had up upgrade the graphics card in order to run Fear and later on Oblivion. Oblivion got delayed, and now it barely runs ok on the low end with the graphics card I bought. So it is once again time to buy a new graphics card, for the price os 6000 Swedish KR, half the price of a new PC; or if you only require the PC for office use; the whole price of the PC.
Three graphics cards for each a price between 3000-6000 SKR in one and a half year? sure is very expensive to play PC games. And now it seems there are very little comming out that can be called a good game.

I wish I had spent my cash on an xbox360 instead. Especially since it seems that the developers are bringing out the big guns when it comes to designing games and giving them good game play there, plus they optimize for the hardware available, so that the xbox360 does things you can only dream about on the PC, even though you have hardware that should be capable of handling it....

It is time to face the music, PC gaming is finally heading towards it grave. This has been said many times before. But this is the first time I believe it to be true. And if it is not true, then at least it is the death of innovative game-play and new ideas for games.

What is he talking about? I don't know even what currency your talking about. Advent Rising sucked, Half Life 2 was good though. You didn't NEED a new graphics card for anything. There are so many threads arguing this topic I wanna kill myslef (xbox360 vs PC). PC games are heading towards theyre grave? face the music? what a bunch of bull. You sound like a toal n00b who talks like he thinks he knows what he's talking about. Alot of good games came out for pc and will come out for pc. That's how it will always be. Same for xbox360 and ps3.

Quite your whinning, your 7800gt should play oblivion fine, and should also be better compared the the xbox360 (which is comparable to a 6800GT I think).
 

DeathReborn

Platinum Member
Oct 11, 2005
2,758
754
136
Originally posted by: firewolfsm
Originally posted by: DeathReborn
Originally posted by: Frackal
I watched a few of those videos... and... well... "Yay"

5000 tubes and cinder blocks flying around... great... even more unrealistic ... how about making fully destructable environments and such. JMO, that is the way to make this thing useful and a positive addition, no way I'm paying 300 bucks to watch a bunch of gas pipes fly around as though I were playing Gary's Mod on HL2

Somebody posted a video of Physics in Gary's Mod in HL2 using loads of Watermelons, suffice to say it became a slideshow. PhysX should rectify that and in the process possibly raise the FPS in games that use the card (assuming the game itself is CPU limited).

You're paying $300 to relieve the stress on your PC, have more realistic physics & lets not forget, things doing what their supposed to (clipping should be helped too).

can you link that? I looked but can't find it.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=31&threadid=1838147&enterthread=y
 

tuteja1986

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2005
3,676
0
0
Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer
red faction.....now there was a game.

i remember hiding behind some massive boulders in a canyon with some turret trying to blast the ****** out of me, and i remember having to switch which rock i hid behind every 2 mins because they were being destroy'd

and i liked the fact you didnt have to use the doors, just blow a hole in the wall !

i had fun in the wierd demo level thing....i dug a huge hole with a rocket launcher then got stuck down it.

Yeah i loved that game : ) it had a screwed up story line : ) awesome gameplay and destructable enviroments. Red faction 2 was crap thoe
 

Gatt

Member
Mar 30, 2005
81
0
0
Originally posted by: T101

It is time to face the music, PC gaming is finally heading towards it grave. This has been said many times before. But this is the first time I believe it to be true. And if it is not true, then at least it is the death of innovative game-play and new ideas for games.

Actually, Consoles are about to buy the farm. Their development costs are about to spiral to the levels PC games cost, and the studios will fold just as PC studios did in the early 2000's. Only difference is, Consoles survive by volume, because the manufactuers make all of their money on volume.

PC games, OTOH, will enjoy a resurgence. With micro-payments and Online distribution decreasing costs and increasing revenues, along with a familiar and well known development environment, PC's are the far more attractive platform.

Consoles have survived and thrived over the past 5-6 years solely because the graphics do not need to exceed the very, very, low capabilities of standard TVs. Now, they need to be as good as PCs, that alone is going to balloon the budget. Combine that with the expenses involved in multi-platform launches, and you've got the recipe for disaster. 90% of the stuff released for consoles are crappy games, now those crappy games are going to take the studios out. Consider too, every console game sold has MS, Sony, or Nintendo taking a cut, unlike PCs. The bottom line for console houses is very dark.

The Grave you've found my friend is the Grave that Consoles will shortly be buried in.
 

T101

Senior member
Oct 13, 1999
558
0
0
Originally posted by: tanishalfelven
hate to mention it but you sound a like rich spoiled brt. really you got as freaking 7800gt and your complaining. STFU. i play oblivion on the rig below. i'm happy.
as for the physx. its really new. no ones taking advatage of it. 2 year from now you'll dig out this thread and laugh at the loosers who doubted the physx card.

In fact, I am poor unemployed computer tech. But I just cant stand FPS below 40, in that sense I am perhaps spoiled, or extreme. If I had been rich, I would not complain about this, I would just have bought two new cards and run a SLI rig.

I however, think it is more extreme that any game should be able to down a 7800GT as much as Oblivion does, already. In a year, sure. But ~6 months after its release? that is rediculus. COD2, Oblivion, NFS: Most Wanted are those games I own that just runs it into the ground.

Comparing this with how these games run on an xbox 360, you really get what I mean when I say that the PCs hardware are underused. Pay half of what a top-end PC graphics card cost today, and get twice the framerate at maximum eye-candy levels.
 

T101

Senior member
Oct 13, 1999
558
0
0
Originally posted by: SpeedZealot369
What is he talking about? I don't know even what currency your talking about. Advent Rising sucked, Half Life 2 was good though. You didn't NEED a new graphics card for anything. There are so many threads arguing this topic I wanna kill myslef (xbox360 vs PC). PC games are heading towards theyre grave? face the music? what a bunch of bull. You sound like a toal n00b who talks like he thinks he knows what he's talking about. Alot of good games came out for pc and will come out for pc. That's how it will always be. Same for xbox360 and ps3.

Quite your whinning, your 7800gt should play oblivion fine, and should also be better compared the the xbox360 (which is comparable to a 6800GT I think).

Swedish Kronor, that is the currency.
No, I did not need any new graphics card for Advent Rising or HL2. You totally missunderstood me.
What I need a new graphics card for, according to me, is Oblivion.

As for what constitues good PC games, that is probably a matter of taste. If you argue that RTS or WoW are good games, than you are in the opposite side of my scale than I am. I call most games that are relased today repetative and boring.

I know what I am talking about when it comes to games. As I am unemployed, I freelance writing game reviews for swedish computer magazines, and I have talked with many retailers who all say the same; PC games do not sell as well as they used to. The reason is no single thing, but a combination of many things.
My personal, and note that I use "my personal", opinion on this matter (after having discussed games with many people on LAN parties) is that there ls little innovation in the games relased today. This is especially true in the realm of RTS, where the market have been flooded with games that pretty much play the same way as all others, the only difference is the graphics.

As to the matter of oblivion and the 7800gt, that is just it. Where the Xbox360 keep a constant 30 FPS, no matter what. The 7800GT at the same level of eye-candy drops as low as 15 FPS in forested areas.
Your comparison of the xbox360 to a 6800gt I will not comment on, but rather use as a point in the discussion, pointing out how ill-used the hardware is on the PC. So far it seems that since late 2005, PC game developers release games and no longer cares about what they require when it comes to the hardware. Codepaths are far from optimal, and make bad use of the hardware in some instances of the game, and use it excellently in others.
Sure, this is a thing that is pretty much unavoidable because of the multitude of hardware configurations used on the PC, but the effect could be significantly less.
 

T101

Senior member
Oct 13, 1999
558
0
0
Originally posted by: Gatt
Originally posted by: T101

It is time to face the music, PC gaming is finally heading towards it grave. This has been said many times before. But this is the first time I believe it to be true. And if it is not true, then at least it is the death of innovative game-play and new ideas for games.

Actually, Consoles are about to buy the farm. Their development costs are about to spiral to the levels PC games cost, and the studios will fold just as PC studios did in the early 2000's. Only difference is, Consoles survive by volume, because the manufactuers make all of their money on volume.

Exactly my point. And part of the reason why there is a larger number of consoles are the simple fact that they are easier to use, and they cost loss than what a top-end graphics card on the PC cost, and runs their sofware at a rather high level of eye-candy compared to how powerful the hardware they utilize use.

Originally posted by: Gatt
PC games, OTOH, will enjoy a resurgence. With micro-payments and Online distribution decreasing costs and increasing revenues, along with a familiar and well known development environment, PC's are the far more attractive platform.

Well, this is something that currently hangs in the balance. But I agree, the indications are that it might become more attractive for the developers. This however does not mean that there will be better or more innovative games. The one does not guarantee the other.

Originally posted by: Gatt
Consoles have survived and thrived over the past 5-6 years solely because the graphics do not need to exceed the very, very, low capabilities of standard TVs.

That is true. And this is why I have not mentioned other consoles than the xbox360, which is the first console that will have to address this problem.

Originally posted by: Gatt
Now, they need to be as good as PCs, that alone is going to balloon the budget. Combine that with the expenses involved in multi-platform launches, and you've got the recipe for disaster.

It is no strange thing that expenses for development have increased. But the effect yet remains to be seen. There is no guarantee that console sales will diminish because of it. The number of titles available might, but not the total sales and the revenue the companies get from relasing a game for the consoles.

But now this discussion has ended up being more about consoles vs PC, which was not my intent. My intent was discussing the fact that PC games at the moment (latest titles, Oblivion as a focus) are rather poor at utilizing the hardware in a way that provides high performance compared to the level of eye-candy. Oblivion can, and easily does, bog down a 7800gt, as well as most of the most powerful graphics cards available today (x1800xtx and 7900GTX) unless you use two of them, which is more or less insane considering the cost of buying that hardware.

Originally posted by: Gatt
90% of the stuff released for consoles are crappy games, now those crappy games are going to take the studios out. Consider too, every console game sold has MS, Sony, or Nintendo taking a cut, unlike PCs. The bottom line for console houses is very dark.

As for wheter console games are crappy games or not, that is something that is highly subjective, same as what constitutes a good PC game. Because of this I think we can ignore to discuss that matter further.

As for the companies taking a bite out of the cake that is the revenue, you have the same thing happening on the PC, but to a lesser extent - as can be seen if you compare what a title cost for the PC compared to what it cost on a Console.

As for the future of console games. Yes, they will diminish in the number of titles available. But the sheer number of consoles compared to PCs used for gaming, will still be more worthwile for developers, as sales will outnumber sales of the same title on the PC many times over. That said, the day may yet come when the middlehands will take a large enough cut of the revenue that the developers will find it economically unsound to produce cosole titles. But the fact is, that many PC developers say that we are already long past this point for the PC. Given the number of sales for a title, coupled with the rife piracy going on with PC titles, many developers are ready to give up.
This coupled with the increasing costs of developing titles, is part of the reason I think, to why PC games are becoming less innovative, and it is easier to use a tried-and-proven formula for a game, than to try something new. If you look at the RTS genre, there have been some innovation over the year in this genre, but the market has more or less been flooded with clones of every successful title, where the game content is on the basic level the same as a very successful RTS title, with only the graphics having been changed.

Originally posted by: Gatt
The Grave you've found my friend is the Grave that Consoles will shortly be buried in.

The grave of innovation perhaps. But the point is that the PC pretty much is already there. Depending on your point of view, this is as bad as it gets and it can only become better, or it is the end of PC gaming, since we will not see much new innovative titles in the future, on the PC or consoles.

But now, this thread is so much off-topic that it is nearly hard to believe. What I wanted to discuss is the PC developers use of hardware to achieve eye-candy, and the reasons to why game developers are unable or unwilling to try to improve performance on available hardware, rather than to try to coax some more performance out of the game engine on available hardware.
To start this discussion off, and to not make it revolve around the issue; I know that part of the problem is the sheer number of hardware configurations as well as different "power levels" of hardware being available.

What I want to discuss is;
- Price/Performance ratio of PC hardware in aspect of games utilizing the hardware. Which in my current point of view is insane. Where will it end? at what point will the end result eye-candy that the game devolpers create stop being worth of spending $ on new hardware for the end users? how short a life span will we eventually end up haing on hardware, if we consider that we are going to run games on reasonably high eye-candy levels (which is part of the marketing for a developer) at a no lower than 40 fps?


 
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