Pictures of American Soldiers in Iran Aiding Earthquake Victims

[tnitsuj]

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: tcsenter

So we should just forget our mistakes?..and are you calling me a US hater for bringing up historical facts? Most Americans have no idea why the Iranians would be sore at us...

And the US haters would never let on in their incessant 'reminders' that Iranians weren't all that warm and fuzzy towards the West even before the coup. Part of the motive behind the coup was to crack down on the growing Islamic fundamentalism (read: anti-west fanaticism). Oops.

The coup was an entirely fundamentalist action, wtf are you talking about?

You might be stepping into a gigantic puddle of poop, youngster. Some of us here, the ones you call "US haters", have served our country with pride and dignity. What right do you have to call people names? What are your credentials?


EDIT: My post is directed at tcsenter.

tcsenter believes he and his viewpoints have a corner on patriotism and love of country. I believe he would be happier of most Americans thought that Iranians were mindless fanatics who hated us simply because we are the US. That fits better with some peoples worldview.

 

[tnitsuj]

BS, the CIA supported coup had nothing to do with "Fundamentalism" Islamic fundamentalism as we know and understand it now did not really exist before the rise of the Arab dictatorships in the 1950's.

The coup was about the Iranian governments inability to come to an oil agreement with Western powers, and the percieved danger of Iran falling into the Soviet Sphere of Influence with a weekend fiscally bankrupt government and an increasingly popular Iranian Communist party (not exactly religious fundamentalism). Classic domino theory.

I have never in all my studies of the Iranian revolution and post colonial history found "fundamentalism" as a guiding factor in those early actions. The fundamentalism arose under the repression of the Shaw, not before.



link to GWU.EDU site with declassified US documents



link to main site

 

[mastertech01]

Excellent. Great to see both countries can set aside thier differences for the sake of humanitarian need.



On a side note, from the appearance of some of those boxes on the tarmac, I see future jobs being filled at UPS as "package handlers" ... sheez

 

[tcsenter]

You might be stepping into a gigantic puddle of poop, youngster. Some of us here, the ones you call "US haters", have served our country with pride and dignity. What right do you have to call people names? What are your credentials?

Yes, we're aware that you were drafted barely out of high school and sent to some country you probably didn't even know existed to help contain the spread of a ruthless ideology your school teachers, along with John Lennon, Bob Dillan, Jane Fonda and Tom Hayden, probably told you was 'benevolent, compassionate, and promoted the greater good of all....blah blah blah'.

The terribly low levels of morale in Vietnam were attributed almost entirely to the draftee who was pervasively bitter and disgruntled every waking minute of his tour, not unreasonably; first about having to be in the military to begin with, and then about being in a foreign land where eating the food or drinking the water made you sh-t your brains out for weeks on end, instead of being home driving '69 Camaros, smoking weed, and getting some of that "free love" like many. As if that wasn't bad enough, people were trying to kill you - often.

And so it was no surprise, really, that thousands of draftees would come home from Vietnam bitterly opposed to a war they didn't understand but were forced to endure the horrors of, anyway; bitterness that would spill over and taint one's other views towards their government and country.

For precisely these reasons, it was realized that the draft is a terrible way to boost force strength and should not be relied upon unless the cause for military action is palpable and obvious.

Your country is indebted for your faithful service, a debt which could never be repaid in full. I was not specifically calling you a US hater, but if the shoe fits....

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: ThePresence
Why the hell are they wearing patches on their uniforms?

political sensitivities. Iraq was just invaded on the prospect that there were WMD's. Iran is suspecting of having an active nuke program.

 

[GasX]

My future father-in-law did 2 tours in Vietnam and loved his time there. Maybe you should base you thoughts on more than just the history channel...

Originally posted by: tcsenter

You might be stepping into a gigantic puddle of poop, youngster. Some of us here, the ones you call "US haters", have served our country with pride and dignity. What right do you have to call people names? What are your credentials?

Yes, we're aware that you were drafted barely out of high school and sent to some country you probably didn't even know existed to help contain the spread of a ruthless ideology your school teachers, along with John Lennon, Bob Dillan, Jane Fonda and Tom Hayden, probably told you was 'benevolent, compassionate, and promoted the greater good of all....blah blah blah'.

The terribly low levels of morale in Vietnam were attributed almost entirely to the draftee who was pervasively bitter and disgruntled every waking minute of his tour, not unreasonably; first about having to be in the military to begin with, and then about being in a foreign land where eating the food or drinking the water made you sh-t your brains out for weeks on end, instead of being home driving '69 Camaros, smoking weed, and getting some of that "free love" like many. As if that wasn't bad enough, people were trying to kill you - often.

And so it was no surprise, really, that thousands of draftees would come home from Vietnam bitterly opposed to a war they didn't understand but were forced to endure the horrors of, anyway; bitterness that would spill over and taint one's other views towards their government and country.

For precisely these reasons, it was realized that the draft is a terrible way to boost force strength and should not be relied upon unless the cause for military action is palpable and obvious.

Your country is indebted for your faithful service, a debt which could never be repaid in full. I was not specifically calling you a US hater, but if the shoe fits....

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: ThePresence
Why the hell are they wearing patches on their uniforms?

political sensitivities. Iraq was just invaded on the prospect that there were WMD's. Iran is suspecting of having an active nuke program.

I was hoping that was not the reason. What tnitsuj said before makes sense.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

You might be stepping into a gigantic puddle of poop, youngster. Some of us here, the ones you call "US haters", have served our country with pride and dignity. What right do you have to call people names? What are your credentials?

Yes, we're aware that you were drafted barely out of high school and sent to some country you probably didn't even know existed to help contain the spread of a ruthless ideology your school teachers, along with John Lennon, Bob Dillan, Jane Fonda and Tom Hayden, probably told you was 'benevolent, compassionate, and promoted the greater good of all....blah blah blah'.

The terribly low levels of morale in Vietnam were attributed almost entirely to the draftee who was pervasively bitter and disgruntled every waking minute of his tour, not unreasonably; first about having to be in the military to begin with, and then about being in a foreign land where eating the food or drinking the water made you sh-t your brains out for weeks on end, instead of being home driving '69 Camaros, smoking weed, and getting some of that "free love" like many. As if that wasn't bad enough, people were trying to kill you - often.

And so it was no surprise, really, that thousands of draftees would come home from Vietnam bitterly opposed to a war they didn't understand but were forced to endure the horrors of, anyway; bitterness that would spill over and taint one's other views towards their government and country.

For precisely these reasons, it was realized that the draft is a terrible way to boost force strength and should not be relied upon unless the cause for military action is palpable and obvious.

Your country is indebted for your faithful service, a debt which could never be repaid in full. I was not specifically calling you a US hater, but if the shoe fits....

You are way out of line on this one, and I am calling you on it. I am familiar with his service record, and I am telling you that you could not be more wrong. I am NOT going to tell his story, but the way you have characterized him is completely misleading. America hater? A good one. Rarely will I stand up for another member who could certainly defend himself, but you cannot seem to understand that the realization of an error does not mean one is anti-american.

 

[smashp]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

You might be stepping into a gigantic puddle of poop, youngster. Some of us here, the ones you call "US haters", have served our country with pride and dignity. What right do you have to call people names? What are your credentials?

Yes, we're aware that you were drafted barely out of high school and sent to some country you probably didn't even know existed to help contain the spread of a ruthless ideology your school teachers, along with John Lennon, Bob Dillan, Jane Fonda and Tom Hayden, probably told you was 'benevolent, compassionate, and promoted the greater good of all....blah blah blah'.

The terribly low levels of morale in Vietnam were attributed almost entirely to the draftee who was pervasively bitter and disgruntled every waking minute of his tour, not unreasonably; first about having to be in the military to begin with, and then about being in a foreign land where eating the food or drinking the water made you sh-t your brains out for weeks on end, instead of being home driving '69 Camaros, smoking weed, and getting some of that "free love" like many. As if that wasn't bad enough, people were trying to kill you - often.

And so it was no surprise, really, that thousands of draftees would come home from Vietnam bitterly opposed to a war they didn't understand but were forced to endure the horrors of, anyway; bitterness that would spill over and taint one's other views towards their government and country.

For precisely these reasons, it was realized that the draft is a terrible way to boost force strength and should not be relied upon unless the cause for military action is palpable and obvious.

Your country is indebted for your faithful service, a debt which could never be repaid in full. I was not specifically calling you a US hater, but if the shoe fits....

Well the Draft Was Neccesary Since All the Neo Conservative Love of Country Types who believe in a "Pax Americana".......

Wont Serve in the Military and get deferments.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: smashp

Originally posted by: tcsenter

You might be stepping into a gigantic puddle of poop, youngster. Some of us here, the ones you call "US haters", have served our country with pride and dignity. What right do you have to call people names? What are your credentials?

Yes, we're aware that you were drafted barely out of high school and sent to some country you probably didn't even know existed to help contain the spread of a ruthless ideology your school teachers, along with John Lennon, Bob Dillan, Jane Fonda and Tom Hayden, probably told you was 'benevolent, compassionate, and promoted the greater good of all....blah blah blah'.

The terribly low levels of morale in Vietnam were attributed almost entirely to the draftee who was pervasively bitter and disgruntled every waking minute of his tour, not unreasonably; first about having to be in the military to begin with, and then about being in a foreign land where eating the food or drinking the water made you sh-t your brains out for weeks on end, instead of being home driving '69 Camaros, smoking weed, and getting some of that "free love" like many. As if that wasn't bad enough, people were trying to kill you - often.

And so it was no surprise, really, that thousands of draftees would come home from Vietnam bitterly opposed to a war they didn't understand but were forced to endure the horrors of, anyway; bitterness that would spill over and taint one's other views towards their government and country.

For precisely these reasons, it was realized that the draft is a terrible way to boost force strength and should not be relied upon unless the cause for military action is palpable and obvious.

Your country is indebted for your faithful service, a debt which could never be repaid in full. I was not specifically calling you a US hater, but if the shoe fits....

Well the Draft Was Neccesary Since All the Neo Conservative Love of Country Types who believe in a "Pax Americana".......

Wont Serve in the Military and get deferments.

Yeah, all the liberals were lining up at the enlistment centers. Sheesh.

 

[smashp]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: smashp

Originally posted by: tcsenter

You might be stepping into a gigantic puddle of poop, youngster. Some of us here, the ones you call "US haters", have served our country with pride and dignity. What right do you have to call people names? What are your credentials?

Yes, we're aware that you were drafted barely out of high school and sent to some country you probably didn't even know existed to help contain the spread of a ruthless ideology your school teachers, along with John Lennon, Bob Dillan, Jane Fonda and Tom Hayden, probably told you was 'benevolent, compassionate, and promoted the greater good of all....blah blah blah'.

The terribly low levels of morale in Vietnam were attributed almost entirely to the draftee who was pervasively bitter and disgruntled every waking minute of his tour, not unreasonably; first about having to be in the military to begin with, and then about being in a foreign land where eating the food or drinking the water made you sh-t your brains out for weeks on end, instead of being home driving '69 Camaros, smoking weed, and getting some of that "free love" like many. As if that wasn't bad enough, people were trying to kill you - often.

And so it was no surprise, really, that thousands of draftees would come home from Vietnam bitterly opposed to a war they didn't understand but were forced to endure the horrors of, anyway; bitterness that would spill over and taint one's other views towards their government and country.

For precisely these reasons, it was realized that the draft is a terrible way to boost force strength and should not be relied upon unless the cause for military action is palpable and obvious.

Your country is indebted for your faithful service, a debt which could never be repaid in full. I was not specifically calling you a US hater, but if the shoe fits....

Well the Draft Was Neccesary Since All the Neo Conservative Love of Country Types who believe in a "Pax Americana".......

Wont Serve in the Military and get deferments.

Yeah, all the liberals were lining up at the enlistment centers. Sheesh.

actually thats Not the Point. Yes There Were many Liberal Hippy Types that avoinded Nam, Yet on the Other side of the Fence

Conservatise who pushed for the War and Preech of its necessity to "Stop Communism" Bailed out on their Beloved Country. They are Chicken hearted Hypocrits.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: smashp

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: smashp

Originally posted by: tcsenter

You might be stepping into a gigantic puddle of poop, youngster. Some of us here, the ones you call "US haters", have served our country with pride and dignity. What right do you have to call people names? What are your credentials?

Yes, we're aware that you were drafted barely out of high school and sent to some country you probably didn't even know existed to help contain the spread of a ruthless ideology your school teachers, along with John Lennon, Bob Dillan, Jane Fonda and Tom Hayden, probably told you was 'benevolent, compassionate, and promoted the greater good of all....blah blah blah'.

The terribly low levels of morale in Vietnam were attributed almost entirely to the draftee who was pervasively bitter and disgruntled every waking minute of his tour, not unreasonably; first about having to be in the military to begin with, and then about being in a foreign land where eating the food or drinking the water made you sh-t your brains out for weeks on end, instead of being home driving '69 Camaros, smoking weed, and getting some of that "free love" like many. As if that wasn't bad enough, people were trying to kill you - often.

And so it was no surprise, really, that thousands of draftees would come home from Vietnam bitterly opposed to a war they didn't understand but were forced to endure the horrors of, anyway; bitterness that would spill over and taint one's other views towards their government and country.

For precisely these reasons, it was realized that the draft is a terrible way to boost force strength and should not be relied upon unless the cause for military action is palpable and obvious.

Your country is indebted for your faithful service, a debt which could never be repaid in full. I was not specifically calling you a US hater, but if the shoe fits....

Well the Draft Was Neccesary Since All the Neo Conservative Love of Country Types who believe in a "Pax Americana".......

Wont Serve in the Military and get deferments.

Yeah, all the liberals were lining up at the enlistment centers. Sheesh.

actually thats Not the Point. Yes There Were many Liberal Hippy Types that avoinded Nam, Yet on the Other side of the Fence

Conservatise who pushed for the War and Preech of its necessity to "Stop Communism" Bailed out on their Beloved Country. They are Chicken hearted Hypocrits.

Actually, you said that the draft wes necessary because the neocon's were not signing up. That is complete and utter bullcrap.

 

[tcsenter]

My future father-in-law did 2 tours in Vietnam and loved his time there. Maybe you should base you thoughts on more than just the history channel...

Well yes, that History Channel is such a bad source of information as compared to Katie Curic, Peter Arnett, Howard Zinn, and Dan Rather.

Sure, there were soldiers, draftees and volunteers, who took their duty in stride. Some, as you note, actually liked their tour in Vietnam. Hell, some had to be ordered to go home. But when any substantial percentage of your force structure doesn't, it can have serious and pervasive affect on overall morale.

You've undoubtedly seen it in the workplace. Just one employee who constantly pisses and moans about everything can bring down the morale of an entire shift. Worse, it can become infectious; one bad apple can spoil the bunch.

When that employee quits or gets fired, or just takes a vacation, its like some big burden has been lifted off everyone's shoulders. The whole place seems a little brighter and upbeat when they're gone.

 

[tcsenter]

You are way out of line on this one, and I am calling you on it. I am familiar with his service record, and I am telling you that you could not be more wrong. I am NOT going to tell his story, but the way you have characterized him is completely misleading. America hater?

I did not characterize him as an American hater. Go back and read. Reading is fundamental.

I did, however, characterize him as an inducted conscript. That was my understanding, if it is in error, I apologize.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

You are way out of line on this one, and I am calling you on it. I am familiar with his service record, and I am telling you that you could not be more wrong. I am NOT going to tell his story, but the way you have characterized him is completely misleading. America hater?

I did not characterize him as an American hater. Go back and read. Reading is fundamental.

I did, however, characterize him as an inducted conscript. That was my understanding, if it is in error, I apologize.

I was not specifically calling you a US hater, but if the shoe fits....


Reading is not the issue. Comprehension is.

Spin as you will, but others will see the implication.

I am not specifically calling you full of crap with this, but if the shoe fits....

 

[tcsenter]

Well the Draft Was Neccesary Since All the Neo Conservative Love of Country Types who believe in a "Pax Americana".......Wont Serve in the Military and get deferments.

You mean Colin Powell, who served two tours in Vietnam? Or Donald Rumsfeld, who served as a Naval Aviator? John McCain, whose father was a legendary Navy Admiral? Or do you mean GWB, who 'ditched' the 'risky' service in Vietnam for the 'non-risky' role of learning to pilot 1950s-era jet fighters?

Oh, you must be referring to Bill Clinton! You threw me there for a minute, because although Michael Moore describes Clinton as the greatest Conservative President we've ever had, I don't readily associate Clinton with neo-conservatism like you and Moore. Kinda threw me a curve there.

It was determined long ago that the US could have fought the same war, for the same amount of time, with the same outcome, without instituting the draft. If the US "needed" servicemen, it certainly wasn't because George Bush opted to fly jet fighters in the Guard.

 

[tcsenter]

I am not specifically calling you full of crap with this, but if the shoe fits....

Thank you for proving my point. I don't think anyone else but you is confused about the 'comprehension' part. I'm not calling you confused, but if the shoe fits....

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: mastertech01
Excellent. Great to see both countries can set aside thier differences for the sake of humanitarian need.

On a side note, from the appearance of some of those boxes on the tarmac, I see future jobs being filled at UPS as "package handlers" ... sheez

This is true. I just hope they don't go a make super heavy Pottery Homes to get crushed in again, how many times does humans have to kicked in the head to learn? Looks like infinitely.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

I am not specifically calling you full of crap with this, but if the shoe fits....

Thank you for proving my point. I don't think anyone else but you is confused about the 'comprehension' part. I'm not calling you confused, but if the shoe fits....

I see you are lacking irony skills as well.

Keep digging.

 

[tcsenter]

Irony is so...ironic.

 

[Martin]

Can someone explain the purpose of blue camouflage?

http://www.centcom.mil/galleries/photos/AID_FROM_US_TO_IRAN_12-28-03/iranearthquake_13.jpg

 

[rickn]

those aren't relief workers, it's a pre-emptive invasion!

seriously, common human decency knows know political boundaries. leave politics out of it. Those people need help, and it's good that countries that can help are helping.

 

[tnitsuj]

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
Can someone explain the purpose of blue camouflage?

http://www.centcom.mil/galleries/photos/AID_FROM_US_TO_IRAN_12-28-03/iranearthquake_13.jpg

It is mainly intended for urban use. The Russians came up with it, and that stuff the Iranians are wearing is basically identical to US pattern BDU's just in the blue. Thier is debate on how effective that paritcular style is. It lacks straight edges and smaller patterns which are thought to be better for urban use. The new USMC digital camouflage is available in that color/different scheme.

 

[dmcowen674]

Now they are asking about what I said before. I termed them as Pottery houses, they are calling them Mud homes, same thing:

1-1-2004 Iran Asks 'Why Are Our Earthquakes So Deadly?'

MUD-BRICK BLAMED

Fingers are also being pointed at the mud bricks common in towns like Bam. They are cheap and popular because they keep houses cool in summer and warm in winter. But they crumble easily, suffocating many who survive the actual quake.

Stavros Joannides, a Cypriot structural engineer who worked in Iran in the 1970s, said mud bricks were not flexible enough.

"Once that elasticity is lost and there is no steel, no reinforced concrete, the building will give," he said. "Without warning. Mud brick doesn't start dropping bits of plaster or brick like a concrete house will. It comes down at once."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I saw that from the pictures, they crumpled into dust piles (looked like broken Pottery to me).

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: tnitsuj
BS, the CIA supported coup had nothing to do with "Fundamentalism" Islamic fundamentalism as we know and understand it now did not really exist before the rise of the Arab dictatorships in the 1950's.

The coup was about the Iranian governments inability to come to an oil agreement with Western powers, and the percieved danger of Iran falling into the Soviet Sphere of Influence with a weekend fiscally bankrupt government and an increasingly popular Iranian Communist party (not exactly religious fundamentalism). Classic domino theory.

I have never in all my studies of the Iranian revolution and post colonial history found "fundamentalism" as a guiding factor in those early actions. The fundamentalism arose under the repression of the Shaw, not before.



link to GWU.EDU site with declassified US documents



link to main site

Correct the "fundimentalist" were only a small fringe group up untill they lached themselves to the pro-democracy groups fighting to over throw the Shaw.