Originally posted by: ThePresence
Originally posted by: smashp
Originally posted by: tcsenter
Yes, we're aware that you were drafted barely out of high school and sent to some country you probably didn't even know existed to help contain the spread of a ruthless ideology your school teachers, along with John Lennon, Bob Dillan, Jane Fonda and Tom Hayden, probably told you was 'benevolent, compassionate, and promoted the greater good of all....blah blah blah'.You might be stepping into a gigantic puddle of poop, youngster. Some of us here, the ones you call "US haters", have served our country with pride and dignity. What right do you have to call people names? What are your credentials?
The terribly low levels of morale in Vietnam were attributed almost entirely to the draftee who was pervasively bitter and disgruntled every waking minute of his tour, not unreasonably; first about having to be in the military to begin with, and then about being in a foreign land where eating the food or drinking the water made you sh-t your brains out for weeks on end, instead of being home driving '69 Camaros, smoking weed, and getting some of that "free love" like many. As if that wasn't bad enough, people were trying to kill you - often.
And so it was no surprise, really, that thousands of draftees would come home from Vietnam bitterly opposed to a war they didn't understand but were forced to endure the horrors of, anyway; bitterness that would spill over and taint one's other views towards their government and country.
For precisely these reasons, it was realized that the draft is a terrible way to boost force strength and should not be relied upon unless the cause for military action is palpable and obvious.
Your country is indebted for your faithful service, a debt which could never be repaid in full. I was not specifically calling you a US hater, but if the shoe fits....
Well the Draft Was Neccesary Since All the Neo Conservative Love of Country Types who believe in a "Pax Americana".......
Wont Serve in the Military and get deferments.Yeah, all the liberals were lining up at the enlistment centers. Sheesh.
Originally posted by: tcsenter
You mean Colin Powell, who served two tours in Vietnam? Or Donald Rumsfeld, who served as a Naval Aviator? John McCain, whose father was a legendary Navy Admiral? Or do you mean GWB, who 'ditched' the 'risky' service in Vietnam for the 'non-risky' role of learning to pilot 1950s-era jet fighters?Well the Draft Was Neccesary Since All the Neo Conservative Love of Country Types who believe in a "Pax Americana".......Wont Serve in the Military and get deferments.
Oh, you must be referring to Bill Clinton! You threw me there for a minute, because although Michael Moore describes Clinton as the greatest Conservative President we've ever had, I don't readily associate Clinton with neo-conservatism like you and Moore. Kinda threw me a curve there.
It was determined long ago that the US could have fought the same war, for the same amount of time, with the same outcome, without instituting the draft. If the US "needed" servicemen, it certainly wasn't because George Bush opted to fly jet fighters in the Guard.
Who hates the US? Hating what we did in the past that wasn't very complimentary for a supposed Defender of Freedom and Democracy doesn't equal hating the US.Originally posted by: etech
It's strange how no one mentions Britain's role in the overthow of Mossadegh and only blames and mentions the US row.
Very selective history or just the fact that any other country besides the US isn't worth hating in your eyes?
Originally posted by: Drift3r
Originally posted by: tcsenter
You mean Colin Powell, who served two tours in Vietnam? Or Donald Rumsfeld, who served as a Naval Aviator? John McCain, whose father was a legendary Navy Admiral? Or do you mean GWB, who 'ditched' the 'risky' service in Vietnam for the 'non-risky' role of learning to pilot 1950s-era jet fighters?Well the Draft Was Neccesary Since All the Neo Conservative Love of Country Types who believe in a "Pax Americana".......Wont Serve in the Military and get deferments.
Oh, you must be referring to Bill Clinton! You threw me there for a minute, because although Michael Moore describes Clinton as the greatest Conservative President we've ever had, I don't readily associate Clinton with neo-conservatism like you and Moore. Kinda threw me a curve there.
It was determined long ago that the US could have fought the same war, for the same amount of time, with the same outcome, without instituting the draft. If the US "needed" servicemen, it certainly wasn't because George Bush opted to fly jet fighters in the Guard.
About Donney......
Name: Donald "The Don" Rumsfeld
Born: 1932
Employer: The U.S. Taxpayer
Conflict Avoided: Korea
Notes: When the shooting started in Korea Rummy here was either 18, or about to turn 18. Not to worry for him, though ? he spent the war at Princeton, wearing a ROTC uniform. Once the war was over he flew jets for the Navy for a few years. Defenders of Rumsfeld will say he?s no chickenhawk ? he served, and it?s not his fault the war ended before he got his commission. To which others answer, ?plenty of farmers and mechanics and kids just out of high school served. Anyone as full of whatever that stuffing in him is, could have tried out for a battlefield commission.?
Originally posted by: etech
It's strange how no one mentions Britain's role in the overthow of Mossadegh and only blames and mentions the US row.
Very selective history or just the fact that any other country besides the US isn't worth hating in your eyes?
Originally posted by: etech
It's strange how no one mentions Britain's role in the overthow of Mossadegh and only blames and mentions the US row.
Very selective history or just the fact that any other country besides the US isn't worth hating in your eyes?
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Who hates the US? Hating what we did in the past that wasn't very complimentary for a supposed Defender of Freedom and Democracy doesn't equal hating the US.Originally posted by: etech
It's strange how no one mentions Britain's role in the overthow of Mossadegh and only blames and mentions the US row.
Very selective history or just the fact that any other country besides the US isn't worth hating in your eyes?
So according to you it was ok to support Murderers and Ruthless Dictators to suppress Communism. How about leftist Regimes that were elected by the populous as in Allende's case? Dude, when the ends start justifying the means, especially when the ends means murder and toture agianst people for expressing their will, what kind of message does that send to others about us as a Nation who is suppose to stand for Political Freedom and Justice?Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Who hates the US? Hating what we did in the past that wasn't very complimentary for a supposed Defender of Freedom and Democracy doesn't equal hating the US.Originally posted by: etech
It's strange how no one mentions Britain's role in the overthow of Mossadegh and only blames and mentions the US row.
Very selective history or just the fact that any other country besides the US isn't worth hating in your eyes?
Red and others, do you also remember that little thing called the Cold War and it's influence on US actions during that time.
Sure you can leave it out of the equation and look at US actions without it's influence but many questionable things were done with the intention of saving the world from communism.
Context my friends, all things must be taken in context.
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
So according to you it was ok to support Murderers and Ruthless Dictators to suppress Communism. How about leftist Regimes that were elected by the populous as in Allende's case? Dude, when the ends start justifying the means, especially when the ends means murder and toture agianst people for expressing their will, what kind of message does that send to others about us as a Nation who is suppose to stand for Political Freedom and Justice?Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Who hates the US? Hating what we did in the past that wasn't very complimentary for a supposed Defender of Freedom and Democracy doesn't equal hating the US.Originally posted by: etech
It's strange how no one mentions Britain's role in the overthow of Mossadegh and only blames and mentions the US row.
Very selective history or just the fact that any other country besides the US isn't worth hating in your eyes?
Red and others, do you also remember that little thing called the Cold War and it's influence on US actions during that time.
Sure you can leave it out of the equation and look at US actions without it's influence but many questionable things were done with the intention of saving the world from communism.
Context my friends, all things must be taken in context.
Having you agree with me takes away what little credibility I have here.Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
So according to you it was ok to support Murderers and Ruthless Dictators to suppress Communism. How about leftist Regimes that were elected by the populous as in Allende's case? Dude, when the ends start justifying the means, especially when the ends means murder and toture agianst people for expressing their will, what kind of message does that send to others about us as a Nation who is suppose to stand for Political Freedom and Justice?Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Who hates the US? Hating what we did in the past that wasn't very complimentary for a supposed Defender of Freedom and Democracy doesn't equal hating the US.Originally posted by: etech
It's strange how no one mentions Britain's role in the overthow of Mossadegh and only blames and mentions the US row.
Very selective history or just the fact that any other country besides the US isn't worth hating in your eyes?
Red and others, do you also remember that little thing called the Cold War and it's influence on US actions during that time.
Sure you can leave it out of the equation and look at US actions without it's influence but many questionable things were done with the intention of saving the world from communism.
Context my friends, all things must be taken in context.
You're right, have to take over every Country on the planet in the name of Politcal Freedom and Justice American style.
Who's next? Let's go, go, go, it's about time we start anilating all Dictators. What took us so long?
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
So according to you it was ok to support Murderers and Ruthless Dictators to suppress Communism. How about leftist Regimes that were elected by the populous as in Allende's case? Dude, when the ends start justifying the means, especially when the ends means murder and toture agianst people for expressing their will, what kind of message does that send to others about us as a Nation who is suppose to stand for Political Freedom and Justice?Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Who hates the US? Hating what we did in the past that wasn't very complimentary for a supposed Defender of Freedom and Democracy doesn't equal hating the US.Originally posted by: etech
It's strange how no one mentions Britain's role in the overthow of Mossadegh and only blames and mentions the US row.
Very selective history or just the fact that any other country besides the US isn't worth hating in your eyes?
Red and others, do you also remember that little thing called the Cold War and it's influence on US actions during that time.
Sure you can leave it out of the equation and look at US actions without it's influence but many questionable things were done with the intention of saving the world from communism.
Context my friends, all things must be taken in context.
Yep but we didn't help finance him killing his own people, just Germans!Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
So according to you it was ok to support Murderers and Ruthless Dictators to suppress Communism. How about leftist Regimes that were elected by the populous as in Allende's case? Dude, when the ends start justifying the means, especially when the ends means murder and toture agianst people for expressing their will, what kind of message does that send to others about us as a Nation who is suppose to stand for Political Freedom and Justice?Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Who hates the US? Hating what we did in the past that wasn't very complimentary for a supposed Defender of Freedom and Democracy doesn't equal hating the US.Originally posted by: etech
It's strange how no one mentions Britain's role in the overthow of Mossadegh and only blames and mentions the US row.
Very selective history or just the fact that any other country besides the US isn't worth hating in your eyes?
Red and others, do you also remember that little thing called the Cold War and it's influence on US actions during that time.
Sure you can leave it out of the equation and look at US actions without it's influence but many questionable things were done with the intention of saving the world from communism.
Context my friends, all things must be taken in context.
Was it OK to ally with Stalin in WW2?
Yep but we didn't help finance him killing his own people, just Germans!
Nice try Etech but it doesn't fly. Allende wasn't killing people in concentration camps nor was he invading nieghboring countries.Originally posted by: etech
Yep but we didn't help finance him killing his own people, just Germans!
That's a pretty disingenuous answer Red. Why was it ok to support Stalin to fight an evil but when communism was found to be an enemy it was not ok to support other leaders. Either it was ok in all cases or not.
Only if your Sugar Daddy and his Butt Buddies have their way!Originally posted by: Dari
Unless the Iranians stop their support of terror, the next time we're there, the pictures won't be so pretty.
In the mean time, this is good.