Pictures of my horrible new fence

[TripleAAA]

So I had a fence built at my house a few weeks ago. The contractor did an absolutely horrendous job and also didn't even build the fence the correct height. The fence line is crooked, etc. It looks like a kindergartner built it. I haven't paid this contractor a penny as of yet and am actually planning to pursue a small claim for the cost of removing/disposing of the fence.

The contractor had his attorney send me a letter attempting to "collect on a debt" and has given 30 days for me to respond. I'm somewhat doubtful that he will truly take me to court as his arguments don't hold any water and I have numerous documents that prove my side of the story. Anyways, another contractor that came out to look at the fence offered me some of his "legal" advice, but I'm not sure if it would fly. He said that I should have a family member put a lien on my house so that the original fence builder could not.

Anyone familiar with this? Would this work?

UPDATED WITH PICS OF THE FENCE: (click on full size once you get there to see the detail)

Fence Pictures


UPDATE 9/6/07

Well so some of you may have remembered taking a gander at the pictures of my fence. I wanted to update everyone as some of your comments/suggestions have really helped.

I went to the small claims hearing (which I filed against the fencing contractor) and he hired a lawyer who in turn requested the case be transferred to District Civil court. The reason for this was that they wanted to countersue me. The judge granted their request because she had to by law.

To make the long story somewhat short, I am being represented by a legal clinic through where I to graduate school. It's free for me which is great and I met with some of the student-lawyers who are working on the case. Everyone is pretty confident that I will prevail, but it's one of those things that will take a while before it's finally resolved.

The fencing contractor and his laywer have done nothing, which in my opinion is just a tactic to stall and hope that I will eventually just throw my hands up and drop the charges.

Will probably be another month or two before anything further develops. I'll keep you posted for those that are interested. I've learned quite a bit of lessons through this situation.

 

[Oceandevi]

Ask the guy to repair it the right way and then pay him. Or just do it yourself, fence building is so damn easy.

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

you would have tro demonstrate a legal right to place a lien on the property, that would be hard to do as there isn't one

 

[her209]

Or hire an lawyer ASAP.

 

[xSauronx]

Originally posted by: TripleAAA
So I had a fence built at my house a few weeks ago. The contractor did an absolutely horrendous job and also didn't even build the fence the correct height. The fence line is crooked, etc. It looks like a kindergartner built it. I haven't paid this contractor a penny as of yet and am actually planning to pursue a small claim for the cost of removing/disposing of the fence.

The contractor had his attorney send me a letter attempting to "collect on a debt" and has given 30 days for me to respond. I'm somewhat doubtful that he will truly take me to court as his arguments don't hold any water and I have numerous documents that prove my side of the story. Anyways, another contractor that came out to look at the fence offered me some of his "legal" advice, but I'm not sure if it would fly. He said that I should have a family member put a lien on my house so that the original fence builder could not.

Anyone familiar with this? Would this work?

i would think multiple people to whom you owed money could put a lien on the home in order to collect at time of sale or whatever

id talk to a lawyer before you did anything silly. and id tell the contractor to get the job right if he wants to be paid. did he not have any references or something?

 

[AccruedExpenditure]

Did the contract you signed with the contract stipulate the fence he made would be straight and not jagged. =)

 

[TripleAAA]

Before the fence was built, I had three different contractors bid the job. This guy was in the middle in terms of price, but also offered a longer warranty and seemed to know what he was talking about.

I have already sent him a written request to fix the job. He has offered to repair some of the less costly things, but won't fix the height of the fence because the entire fence would have to be rebuilt due to the posts being cut too short.

 

[AlienCraft]

A better idea is to send the lawyer pictures of the fence along with a letter threatening to take it to court unless he repairs the "shoddy workmanship" and "Abysmal attention to detail".
Be sure to include pictures of other fences near-by, as well as the estimate from the other contractor.

You cannot just not pay, you will be required to allow him an opportunity to repair the work that's been done.

OR make a counter offer to pay a reduced rate

A lien without legal merit can be dismissed by a judge.
Do not ignore the letter. Reply with a demand to repair the crappy work or you will sue him for the cost to restore to original agreed upon state.

 

[TripleAAA]

Originally posted by: AccruedExpenditure
Did the contract you signed with the contract stipulate the fence he made would be straight and not jagged. =)

The contract stipulated everything I had originally requested. He then "edited" the original bid form by adding a small note at the bottom claiming I had called him to request the height of the fence be "shortened" which is absolutely false.

The bill he sent me, the city permit, etc all dictate the correct height which is a foot taller than what he built.

 

[olds]

Did you have a written contract with the original fence builder?

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

Originally posted by: TripleAAA

Originally posted by: AccruedExpenditure
Did the contract you signed with the contract stipulate the fence he made would be straight and not jagged. =)

The contract stipulated everything I had originally requested. He then "edited" the original bid form by adding a small note at the bottom claiming I had called him to request the height of the fence be "shortened" which is absolutely false.

The bill he sent me, the city permit, etc all dictate the correct height which is a foot taller than what he built.

so you don't have your own copy of the original signed contract and the attached bid?

 

[911paramedic]

I am not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure a written contract cannot be amended orally.

If you have the contract specifying the height, etc., this guy is out of luck...and has an idiot for a lawyer it sounds like.

 

[TripleAAA]

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
Did you have a written contract with the original fence builder?

Yes, however before all this happened the contractor told me to sign the bid and send it in to him so that he could get the process started, pull the city permit, etc. I now don't have any copy of the contract and despite written and verbal requests for a copy, he has yet to provide it. This is the only piece of documentation he has against me and someone else told me that any changes made "after" the original document was signed, I would have to initial next to the changes.

Another issue is the day I got home, I called him to explain the problems with the fence. He was busy on another job and said he would call me back...he didn't. Over the course of the next two weeks, I had called him four times leaving messages asking him to please come out to my property to discuss the situation. After the last phone message, I sent him a certified letter explaining the problems. He claims he never received any notification from me, even though I have a receipt from the post office for the letter as well as my phone records showing calls placed to his phone number of the course of that time.

He called me out of the blue two weeks after the job had been finished only because one of the other contractors I had come out and look at the job, called him.

I also filed a complaint with the BBB.

 

[Eli]

Ugh, what a nightmare.

 

[TripleAAA]

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: TripleAAA

Originally posted by: AccruedExpenditure
Did the contract you signed with the contract stipulate the fence he made would be straight and not jagged. =)

The contract stipulated everything I had originally requested. He then "edited" the original bid form by adding a small note at the bottom claiming I had called him to request the height of the fence be "shortened" which is absolutely false.

The bill he sent me, the city permit, etc all dictate the correct height which is a foot taller than what he built.

so you don't have your own copy of the original signed contract and the attached bid?

The bid/contract are one piece of paper and I don't have a copy because I had to mail it in to him. In hindsight, I obviously wish I had made a copy prior to sending it to him. As I mentioned before he even sent me the bill which dictates the correct height. This guy is a serious piece of work, don't ya think? :disgust:

 

[911paramedic]

P.S. There can be more than one lien on a property, but they are satisfied (paid upon sale) in order of their filing. Putting a lien on it by a relative is not a good idea, IMHO.

 

[TripleAAA]

Originally posted by: Eli
Ugh, what a nightmare.

Yeah, seriously. All I wanted was a decent wood privacy fence. This guy built me a 5 foot high fence that you can see over rather easily, not to mention crooked fence lines which has already caused the wood to warp in most areas.

FYI, I've already taken pictures of everything and might even do a small video walkthrough.

At this point, I really want to have this fence tore out and rebuilt the way I had originally requested.

 

[TripleAAA]

Originally posted by: 911paramedic
P.S. There can be more than one lien on a property, but they are satisfied (paid upon sale) in order of their filing. Putting a lien on it by a relative is not a good idea, IMHO.

Good to know. Thanks

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: TripleAAA
Before the fence was built, I had three different contractors bid the job. This guy was in the middle in terms of price, but also offered a longer warranty and seemed to know what he was talking about.

I have already sent him a written request to fix the job. He has offered to repair some of the less costly things, but won't fix the height of the fence because the entire fence would have to be rebuilt due to the posts being cut too short.

Rule # 1 of Contracting....Measure twice, Cut once.

 

[TripleAAA]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: TripleAAA
Before the fence was built, I had three different contractors bid the job. This guy was in the middle in terms of price, but also offered a longer warranty and seemed to know what he was talking about.

I have already sent him a written request to fix the job. He has offered to repair some of the less costly things, but won't fix the height of the fence because the entire fence would have to be rebuilt due to the posts being cut too short.

Rule # 1 of Contracting....Measure twice, Cut once.

Well I think what happened is this contractor told his workers to build the fence at 5 feet for some reason, then realized later that he was supposed to build it at 6 feet. He tried to cover his tracks by putting a small note on the bid claiming I had called him, but I don't see how any of that would hold up in court.

 

[mugs]

Post the pics

 

[chusteczka]

Originally posted by: TripleAAA

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
Did you have a written contract with the original fence builder?

Yes, however before all this happened the contractor told me to sign the bid and send it in to him so that he could get the process started, pull the city permit, etc. I now don't have any copy of the contract and despite written and verbal requests for a copy, he has yet to provide it. This is the only piece of documentation he has against me and someone else told me that any changes made "after" the original document was signed, I would have to initial next to the changes.

Another issue is the day I got home, I called him to explain the problems with the fence. He was busy on another job and said he would call me back...he didn't. Over the course of the next two weeks, I had called him four times leaving messages asking him to please come out to my property to discuss the situation. After the last phone message, I sent him a certified letter explaining the problems. He claims he never received any notification from me, even though I have a receipt from the post office for the letter as well as my phone records showing calls placed to his phone number of the course of that time.

He called me out of the blue two weeks after the job had been finished only because one of the other contractors I had come out and look at the job, called him.

I also filed a complaint with the BBB.

This all needs to be documented with dates and times. The more organized you are, the fewer problems you will have. Telling someone the dates, times, and methods of previous communications informs the other person how organized you are difficult it will be to take advantage of you.

 

[TripleAAA]

Originally posted by: mugs
Post the pics

I will try later, but need someone to host.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: TripleAAA

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: TripleAAA
Before the fence was built, I had three different contractors bid the job. This guy was in the middle in terms of price, but also offered a longer warranty and seemed to know what he was talking about.

I have already sent him a written request to fix the job. He has offered to repair some of the less costly things, but won't fix the height of the fence because the entire fence would have to be rebuilt due to the posts being cut too short.

Rule # 1 of Contracting....Measure twice, Cut once.

Well I think what happened is this contractor told his workers to build the fence at 5 feet for some reason, then realized later that he was supposed to build it at 6 feet. He tried to cover his tracks by putting a small note on the bid claiming I had called him, but I don't see how any of that would hold up in court.

For the edit to be binding you'd have to initial and date it which you didn't. You should take him to Small Claims Court where it will just be you, him and the Judge or Arbitrator..no lawyers.

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

Originally posted by: TripleAAA

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

Originally posted by: TripleAAA

Originally posted by: AccruedExpenditure
Did the contract you signed with the contract stipulate the fence he made would be straight and not jagged. =)

The contract stipulated everything I had originally requested. He then "edited" the original bid form by adding a small note at the bottom claiming I had called him to request the height of the fence be "shortened" which is absolutely false.

The bill he sent me, the city permit, etc all dictate the correct height which is a foot taller than what he built.

so you don't have your own copy of the original signed contract and the attached bid?

The bid/contract are one piece of paper and I don't have a copy because I had to mail it in to him. In hindsight, I obviously wish I had made a copy prior to sending it to him. As I mentioned before he even sent me the bill which dictates the correct height. This guy is a serious piece of work, don't ya think? :disgust:

sorry bud, but a bid is not a contract. you made a major error in not requiring a written contract and keepin g a copy of the paperwork.

it is your word against his, and you may prevail in small claims court if the quality of the work is terrible, but don't expect to rely on the height issue.