Pictures of my horrible new fence

[TheChort]

Originally posted by: Flaredair
This was my experience in small claims court a few years back. I sued a driveway contractor for shoddy workmanship and wanted them to redo the driveway. In a nutshell, most small claims court judges favor the local contractors and yes I was told this by two lawyers. Sure it's unfair but that's the way it goes. Second, since you didn't have a written and signed contract you can only sue for the poor workmanship which is evident from the photos. The height issue will be tough without the contract. I hate to say it but I believe the judge will rule that you pay a reduced fee which he will decide upon. This is what happened in my case. My bill was $1850 and the judge ordered me to pay $1100. The judge commented that the contractor did do the work and supply the materials which he takes into consideration. Under no circumstance should you tear down the fence or pay to have a new one put up until you have your day in court. The height issue is quite unfortunate and you may be stuck with the 5 foot fence. One other suggestion, call your local building department and speak to them about the 5 foot fence and see what the permit says. If it says 6 feet get a copy and bring it to court. You might convince the judge the contractor was 100% at fault for the wrong height and possibly get off paying for the fence.

looks like sound advice :thumbsup:

 

[DainBramaged]

lmao...holy crap...i can't believe how bad it is

 

[TripleAAA]

Originally posted by: TheChort

Originally posted by: Flaredair
This was my experience in small claims court a few years back. I sued a driveway contractor for shoddy workmanship and wanted them to redo the driveway. In a nutshell, most small claims court judges favor the local contractors and yes I was told this by two lawyers. Sure it's unfair but that's the way it goes. Second, since you didn't have a written and signed contract you can only sue for the poor workmanship which is evident from the photos. The height issue will be tough without the contract. I hate to say it but I believe the judge will rule that you pay a reduced fee which he will decide upon. This is what happened in my case. My bill was $1850 and the judge ordered me to pay $1100. The judge commented that the contractor did do the work and supply the materials which he takes into consideration. Under no circumstance should you tear down the fence or pay to have a new one put up until you have your day in court. The height issue is quite unfortunate and you may be stuck with the 5 foot fence. One other suggestion, call your local building department and speak to them about the 5 foot fence and see what the permit says. If it says 6 feet get a copy and bring it to court. You might convince the judge the contractor was 100% at fault for the wrong height and possibly get off paying for the fence.

looks like sound advice :thumbsup:

Yeah, thats good stuff. The building permit does dictate the correct height and I even went the extra distance and requested the building inspector to come out and verify that the fence was built at 5 feet despite the 6 feet it says on the permit. This doesn't mean its out of regulation through the city, but at least it shows a discrepancy.

 

[TripleAAA]

Originally posted by: DainBramaged
lmao...holy crap...i can't believe how bad it is

Yeah, which is why I would have a hard time believing anyone in their right mind would think that I should still owe money for this fence, whether its the judge or the contractor himself.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: TripleAAA

Originally posted by: 911paramedic
P.S. There can be more than one lien on a property, but they are satisfied (paid upon sale) in order of their filing. Putting a lien on it by a relative is not a good idea, IMHO.

Good to know. Thanks

Generally speaking liens are paid on order of filing but mechanics liens can take a higher priority over other previously filed liens. This varies by state. You need to get this cleared up ASAP

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanics_lien

 

[TripleAAA]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: TripleAAA

Originally posted by: 911paramedic
P.S. There can be more than one lien on a property, but they are satisfied (paid upon sale) in order of their filing. Putting a lien on it by a relative is not a good idea, IMHO.

Good to know. Thanks

Generally speaking liens are paid on order of filing but mechanics liens can take a higher priority over other previously filed liens. This varies by state. You need to get this cleared up ASAP

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanics_lien

Well I'm doubting to even go the lien route at this point. It was just another way for me to gain higher ground with the situation.

 

[imported_Imp]

Originally posted by: TripleAAA

Yeah, thats good stuff. The building permit does dictate the correct height and I even went the extra distance and requested the building inspector to come out and verify that the fence was built at 5 feet despite the 6 feet it says on the permit. This doesn't mean its out of regulation through the city, but at least it shows a discrepancy.

Probably a longshot, but any chance they were SO sloppy that they even screwed up the property lines? Way back when, we went through a bitc*ing phase and a lawsuit with the neighbours because they thought the new fence we put up was over the property line on their side. Had surveyors come a couple times who said it was ok.

 

[UF Matt]

This would be great on Judge Judy.

Kidding aside, I'm sorry to see that you have to deal with this nonsense. What a bum contractor. I'd find an attorney and get a professional opinion. You don't want to mess this up.

 

[SoundTheSurrender]

My tree fort was built better.

 

[TripleAAA]

Originally posted by: Imp

Originally posted by: TripleAAA

Yeah, thats good stuff. The building permit does dictate the correct height and I even went the extra distance and requested the building inspector to come out and verify that the fence was built at 5 feet despite the 6 feet it says on the permit. This doesn't mean its out of regulation through the city, but at least it shows a discrepancy.

Probably a longshot, but any chance they were SO sloppy that they even screwed up the property lines? Way back when, we went through a bitc*ing phase and a lawsuit with the neighbours because they thought the new fence we put up was over the property line on their side. Had surveyors come a couple times who said it was ok.

I actually had a survey done before the fence was built, so there aren't any issues there.

 

[olds]

Whoever did that fence job has little experience building fences.
Hinge on right not installed properly because fence post was cut to short.

A dull butterknife would have made a better cut.

Poor worksmanship
Not mixed well and concrete should form a small mound so that water sheds away from post.

I'd take this guy to small claims court with the pictures you have. You might be able to take another contractor as a witness if you pay his time.
We went through basically the same thing with a concrete contractor who subed out the job to an inferior mason.
The judge said he couldn't give us something for nothing (concrete can't be removed as easily as a fecne) but he knocked the guys bill in half.

 

[TripleAAA]

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
Whoever did that fence job has little experience building fences.
Hinge on right not installed properly because fence post was cut to short.

A dull butterknife would have made a better cut.

Poor worksmanship
Not mixed well and concrete should form a small mound so that water sheds away from post.

I'd take this guy to small claims court with the pictures you have. You might be able to take another contractor as a witness if you pay his time.
We went through basically the same thing with a concrete contractor who subed out the job to an inferior mason.
The judge said he couldn't give us something for nothing (concrete can't be removed as easily as a fecne) but he knocked the guys bill in half.

That's really my worry. I mean you've all seen the pics and regardless of the ruling of the case, I would probably still have this fence rebuilt. If the judge rules I still owe him, that would be really unfortunate. If I end up selling my home at some point, people will bring up the fence issue when considering buying it.

 

[DrPizza]

Hmmmm

In case you lose...

1. take a file/rasp to the tops of those cuts; should be able to smooth them out before staining. That would improve it a ton.

2. The posts seem to be lined up okay. It looks like he simply purchased the pressure treated wood at my local home depot. (lots of warped wood there.) IF the fence is screwed together or you can pull the planks off without damaging them, then simply replacing those horizontal 2x4's with straight lumber might bring your fence back into straightness.

Unless you win, you're gonna be stuck with a 5 foot fence. Sorry. But at least the bad fence isn't hopeless; it can be fixed. Also, it looks like the gate is a problem with the slope of the ground, rather than a gate problem. If it's the fault of the gate, then I suggest you get a level against those vertical posts and show that they are not plumb. That would show that the workmanship was shoddy to begin with. If those 4x4 posts are plumb, then the "fix" isn't so bad. Those posts are 3/4's of the work for building a fence like that.

 

[Eli]

Wow. That is really, really bad. There's no way I would pay for that.

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

Originally posted by: Imp

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

sorry bud, but a bid is not a contract. you made a major error in not requiring a written contract and keepin g a copy of the paperwork.

it is your word against his, and you may prevail in small claims court if the quality of the work is terrible, but don't expect to rely on the height issue.

That's not exactly true. In the real multi-million dollar contract world (in Canada at least), a bid by a contractor is the Contract A. Unless there's a stupid error to void it, the owner can sue the contractor for backing out just by bidding. "A bid is acceptance" got nailed to our heads in the course. However, obviously these super-professional ones are done in the presence of high priced lawyers...

Anyways, my god that is a terrible fence. Too bad you didn't get a copy of the original contract. These guys really are C-suckers. Had work done last year, family didn't get ANYTHING in writing, so there were BS charges and poor workmanship everywhere. If the guy altered the contract and you didn't sign off, there's gotta be someway to prove that. Too bad your job wasn't a multi-million dollar one; owners usually require contractors to get someone(lien/insurance, don't remember term) to make sure the the job is done properly or this someone has to pay.

Think your best defence is to get that contract back. Jackass isn't responding, so if you think it's worth it, get a lawyer to do it.

I'm a general contractor by day, and an internet fascist by night. A bid means nothing, at least in the US. There is nothing binding in a bid, and contractors often back out on them. Without a written contract, there is nothing to enforce.

The OP should have very good grounds based upon those pictures to win in small claims. It's hard to say what they will award him, wether it be total replacement or just the costs of repairs. As I said, it would appear that he will have difficulty proving the height issue, unless the judge hears the facts and decides that the contractor is untrustworthy and takes his word for it.

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

oh, and by the way, the easy fix for your gate is to install the hinges on the outside as they should have been to begin with. This will allow the gate to open out, and should enable it to open fully. As far as a latch, you will probably have to go with a drop-rod and latch system or get some brackets and make yourself a good old-fashioned bar like they used on castle drawbridges.

 

[Vic]

Ridiculously poor workmanship. Self-evident though so you have a good case.

You must take action however or the contractor will place a mechanics lien on the property. This is cheap and easy for them to do, so don't think that they won't.
Take him to small claims and present the evidence of poor workmanship before the judge. One way or another, you're still buying a fence (as you intended to from the beginning, so the judge won't allow you to get a free fence, not even a bad one), but at the very least, you should be compensated in some fashion by an amount appropriate enough to get the fence fixed (replaced or repaired).
You should also contact city/county inspectors/contractor board to file a formal complaint against the contractor.

And next time, get referrals and inspect previous work before picking a contractor.

 

[RossMAN]

Originally posted by: TripleAAA

Originally posted by: RKS
OP how much was the fence and what state are you in?

He wants roughly $2500 for the fence, but I haven't paid him luckily for any of it yet. I am in Kentucky

WTF $2500 for that?

 

[ManyBeers]

You definitely have reason to bitch(and not be willing to pay). Poorly built fence, no way around that. Why did he put the rails on the outside of the posts? I don't think that is correct, though i have never built that type of fence. I have built several "good neighbor" type fences. Plus I always mix my concrete and mound it around the foot of the post for proper drainage and never "dry sack". It looks like he used a sawzall with a dull blade to make the top cuts on the posts and boards LOL.

 

[Beau]

wow, they did a horrible job. No way in hell I'd pay him until he fixed it.

 

[Beau]

Originally posted by: RossMAN

Originally posted by: TripleAAA

Originally posted by: RKS
OP how much was the fence and what state are you in?

He wants roughly $2500 for the fence, but I haven't paid him luckily for any of it yet. I am in Kentucky

WTF $2500 for that?

Not a hot deal.

 

[KK]

If you ordered a six foot fence, then you better not settle for a five foot fence. I would take them to court over that, the workmanship, while ****** at best, is subjective. 6 feet is 72 inches and there's no disputing that. It you ordered a great dane, and got a chihuahua, would you accept that.

 

[Alone]

LOL. I predict you won't have trouble with this lawsuit.

 

[TripleAAA]

Originally posted by: Beau
wow, they did a horrible job. No way in hell I'd pay him until he fixed it.

I think I used your website to host. Thanks and nice service btw

Yeah I'm glad I didn't pay him anything yet. It's frustrating because i got this midget fence now and can't do much of anything with it until this thing is settled.

 

[Evadman]

That was $2500, and that was the mean bid? Damn, Last time I installed a fence for someone it was $400 + materials which out it at about $1400 for cedar with 14 posts and 2 doors (IIRC). That fence was built in the wrong order anyway. You set the posts, nail the cross beams then the slats. Then build the doors then cut off the top of the fence slats and the posts. It doesn't even look like they bothered using a straight edge on the posts.

oldsmoboat hit the nail on the head with the concrete too, that looks like they used the fast way of setting posts which is where you dig a hole, put the post in and dump unmixed concrete in the hole and maybe blast it with water; evidenced by the fact there is only aggregate on top of that concrete without Portland holding it together. The concrete will suck up water from the ground and set up overnight. It will be strong enough for a fence but your post is not going to last long unless it is cca 60 instead of 20 which is what he used by the look of it.