Pistons Versus Lakers in the NBA Finals

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
i love these arbitrary ideas of what is and is not a champion.


bottom line Kobe was a significant factor in the Lakers winning 3 championships, hence he is a champion. any other definition is just arbitrary and stupid

If your definition of "champion" is winning a championship, then so be it. Take Shaq away and he wouldn't be a "champion", it's that simple. Think Allen Iverson in his MVP year, if he had Shaq instead of Mutombo he too would have been a "champion". Or Rip Hamilton with the Wizards if they had Shaq... comparing Kobe to MJ is hilarious though, I love how some above poster claims his shot against UTAH was a "fraud" ahahhahaahhah and he pushed off. Kobe would be lucky to hit a shot of that magnitude with that much on the line!!!

Say what you want, but after this series Kobe/MJ comparison will finally stop. How do you lose with the DIESEL ON YOUR TEAM scoring 30/game!?? Absolutely fricking pathetic, I read in the paper the other day about how this series is probably the biggest upset in the NBA since 1974 and Golden State...

and how many did shaq win without Kobe??

so does that mean Shaq isn't a champion? btw, how many did MJ win without Pippen?

that "without shaq" excuse is stupid. Ok, so you could say that Fox without Shaq or Kobe would never have won a championship, i can see that as he was no more than a marginal role player. but to think that Kobe is on the same level as Fox is plain stupid.

how many would Magic have won without Kareem?? or vice versa?

It's not stupid. Since Shaq > Kobe, replace Kobe with AI/TMac/Baron/J.Kidd/<insert good guard here> and they win it all. Nobody in the league can guard Shaq, he is unstoppable. Do you disagree with this? Many people can and have shut down Kobe, he is not the immovable force. Ever heard of "Hack a Kobe"? Hell no.
Hence, Kobe could NOT have won without Shaq (but maybe later if he matures like MJ did). Shaq COULD HAVE won without Kobe with any of the aforementioned names, or somebody arguably just as good as Kobe.

The same formula applies to MJ and Pippen, MJ > Pippen, so Pippen was replaceable. Magic and Kareem were BOTH the BEST at their respective positions, so you could have probably replaced either with a lesser and either would have carried their respective team. Together they were just like the All Star Team, nobody in the league could stop either!

and you know this how??

:roll:

MJ NEVER won without Pippen. Shaq NEVER won without Kobe. Kareem won ONCE without Magic. Magic NEVER won without Kareem. . . .

what you say is pure speculation and proves nothing.

bottom line, Kobe is a champion because he won 3.

Many would agree, Shaq COULD/WOULD HAVE WON WITHOUT KOBE. Do you deny that Shaq is unstoppable? Give him TMAC/AI/Baron Davis/J.Kidd. Kobe is replaceable and can be shut down by many teams. Shaq cannot, which is why teams resort to Hack a Shaq. It's not that hard to understand. This is the exact reason why one of them has to go, and all of the early indicators are that it's Kobe.

If your definition of champion is winning a ring, then yes, Devean George is a "champion" as well. IMO Kobe is not a true champion, he's a good player who was dck riding Shaq to his rings. He finally faces a good team (Detroit) and folds like a deck of cards, and that's with the greatest center of our era to boot. You can argue GAME 2 GAME 2 all you want like the other LA schleps, but he will eventually hit a shot at the end after missing x amount of game ending shots. The media only highlights the ones he hits, not the numerous others he miserably choked on. (Houston series and his airball comes to mind, or Game 3 of this series).

 

[TheBDB]

Shaq had Penny Hardaway and lost. Back when Penny was good.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: TheBDB
Shaq had Penny Hardaway and lost. Back when Penny was good.

Yeah, b/c Shaq was still developing then... he didn't have any post moves like his hook. Also, Hakeem smoked him his rookie season as well. Shaq simply wasn't the best center in the league at the time.

 

[Falloutboy]

Originally posted by: rdgr8
Noooooo! Detroit 3-1. C'mon Lakers show what you got!

Yes we haven't seen the true suckage of the lakers yet. LOL j/k

 

[cash1220]

It's not stupid. Since Shaq > Kobe, replace Kobe with AI/TMac/Baron/J.Kidd/<insert good guard here> and they win it all. Nobody in the league can guard Shaq, he is unstoppable. Many people can and have shut down Kobe, he is not the immovable force. Ever heard of "Hack a Kobe"? Hell no.
Hence, Kobe could NOT have won without Shaq (but maybe later if he matures like MJ did). Shaq COULD HAVE won without Kobe with any of the aforementioned names, or somebody arguably just as good as Kobe.

The same formula applies to MJ and Pippen, MJ > Pippen, so Pippen was replaceable. Magic and Kareem were BOTH the BEST at their respective positions, so you could have probably replaced either with a lesser and either would have carried their respective team. Together they were just like the All Star Team, nobody in the league could stop either!

ur clueless

 

[rufruf44]

So how do you explain it took Shaq 4 years as a Lakers before he finally won a ring? By mid-late 90s he's arguably already the best center in the game and his games doesn't progess much more. Shaq win when Kobe started to become a star, thats the fact. Anything else is just pure speculation.

 

[gunblade]

Originally posted by: rufruf44
So how do you explain it took Shaq 4 years as a Lakers before he finally won a ring? By mid-late 90s he's arguably already the best center in the game and his games doesn't progess much more. Shaq win when Kobe started to become a star, thats the fact. Anything else is just pure speculation.

One of the reason that you also need to consider is that for the first three years Shaq as a laker, there is a guy by his name MJ that won it all. So, regardless of whether Kobe was there or not there, the first three year wouldn't help.

So, only until MJ moved out of everyone's way, teams had a chance.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: gunblade

Originally posted by: rufruf44
So how do you explain it took Shaq 4 years as a Lakers before he finally won a ring? By mid-late 90s he's arguably already the best center in the game and his games doesn't progess much more. Shaq win when Kobe started to become a star, thats the fact. Anything else is just pure speculation.

One of the reason that you also need to consider is that for the first three years Shaq as a laker, there is a guy by his name MJ that won it all. So, regardless of whether Kobe was there or not there, the first three year wouldn't help.

So, only until MJ moved out of everyone's way, teams had a chance.

Yup, MJ locked it down 1995-1998. 98-1999 Tim Duncan's better team swept LA, and Kobe was not in his prime yet (look at his low numbers). Shaq arguably didn't hit his prime either until the year after in 99-00 when he won the All-Star MVP, garnered a spot on the All-Defensive Team, won the scoring title, the league MVP award, and his first ring.

Also, who won Back to Back to Back NBA Finals MVP awards? Hint: it wasn't Kobe!

 

[ctcsoft]

Originally posted by: TheBDB
Rasheed is such a nice guy in the post game.....why does he have to be such an a$$ during the game?

ain't no time for being nice in the midst of a battle. rasheed will never be nice in a game and I don't want him to be soft either.

 

[iamme]

Game 5 bump. this could be it.

 

[MrScott81]

Originally posted by: iamme
Game 5 bump. this could be it.

lets hope so....die LA!

 

[DanJ]

Originally posted by: iamme
Game 5 bump. this could be it.

Can't f'ing wait.

 

[cash1220]

the refs are going to break out of a slump tonight, i can feel it!

 

[DanJ]

Originally posted by: cash1220
the refs are going to break out of a slump tonight, i can feel it!

Yea, surely the refs forced the Lakers to lose nearly 4 straight.

*world's smallest violin*

 

[xboxist]

God I hate being a Pistons fan. I'm so anxious I can barely focus here at work. I wish I could nap until tipoff.

 

[dahunan]

Here are some more stats for y'all

The NBA just produced a "Lakers Dynasty DVD set" Kobe Bryant is not on the exterior of the box or any of the DVD cases.. The NBA does not want his face on anything until the trial is over... Could they also not want his face on the cover of SI holding up a Finals Trophy?

Kobe's free throws throughout the playoffs:

1st Round (5 games):
40-44

Semifinals (6 games):
30-41

Conference Finals (6 games):
42-56

Finals (4 games so far):
13-14
-------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------
Kobe has taken 92 shots in this FOUR GAME series and only 14 free throws
-------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------
Chauncey Billups has taken 52 shots in this FOUR GAME series and 34 free throws
-------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------
Kobe's stats for the 2 regular season games aganit Detroit 25 shots and 15 free throws.
-------------------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------
In the last 3 games Tayshaun Prince has played 132 minutes guarding Kobe and only has 4 total fouls (and I have watched him cry about every single one of them to the referees)
--------------------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------

Looking at those above stats can you tell me if anything would be different?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Billups has shot the ball 40 times fewer than Kobe yet has 20 more free throws???

What about the regular season differences?

Do you honestly think it is possible for Tayshaun to play 132 minutes and only have 4 fouls?

Game 3 - Detroit never fouled Shaq when he had the ball. He went to the line after playing 35 minutes
Kobe was attacking the basket in game 3 - yet went to the line once.

Game 4 I guess Kobe was never fouled until late in the 4th quarter again.. right?

ONLY free throws of game 4 - 4th quarter
2:14 LAL Kobe Bryant made 1st of 2 Free Throws
2:14 LAL Kobe Bryant made 2nd of 2 Free Throws

ONLY free throws of game 3
9:30 LAL Kobe Bryant made 1st of 2 Free Throws
9:30 LAL Kobe Bryant made 2nd of 2 Free Throws


Yet .. the Pistons have made a living in this series at the free throw line in this series - **if you think it is legit then live with it.

 

[Darkstar757]

Originally posted by: dahunan
Here are some more stats for y'all

The NBA just produced a "Lakers Dynasty DVD set" Kobe Bryant is not on the exterior of the box or any of the DVD cases.. The NBA does not want his face on anything until the trial is over... Could they also not want his face on the cover of SI holding up a Finals Trophy?

Kobe's free throws throughout the playoffs:

1st Round (5 games):
40-44

Semifinals (6 games):
30-41

Conference Finals (6 games):
42-56

Finals (4 games so far):
13-14
-------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------
Kobe has taken 92 shots in this FOUR GAME series and only 14 free throws
-------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------
Chauncey Billups has taken 52 shots in this FOUR GAME series and 34 free throws
-------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------
Kobe's stats for the 2 regular season games aganit Detroit 25 shots and 15 free throws.
-------------------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------
In the last 3 games Tayshaun Prince has played 132 minutes guarding Kobe and only has 4 total fouls (and I have watched him cry about every single one of them to the referees)
--------------------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------

Looking at those above stats can you tell me if anything would be different?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Billups has shot the ball 40 times fewer than Kobe yet has 20 more free throws???

What about the regular season differences?

Do you honestly think it is possible for Tayshaun to play 132 minutes and only have 4 fouls?

Game 3 - Detroit never fouled Shaq when he had the ball. He went to the line after playing 35 minutes
Kobe was attacking the basket in game 3 - yet went to the line once.

Game 4 I guess Kobe was never fouled until late in the 4th quarter again.. right?

ONLY free throws of game 4 - 4th quarter
2:14 LAL Kobe Bryant made 1st of 2 Free Throws
2:14 LAL Kobe Bryant made 2nd of 2 Free Throws

ONLY free throws of game 3
9:30 LAL Kobe Bryant made 1st of 2 Free Throws
9:30 LAL Kobe Bryant made 2nd of 2 Free Throws


Yet .. the Pistons have made a living in this series at the free throw line in this series - **if you think it is legit then live with it.

THANK YOU SOMEONE WITH SOME SENSE TAYSHAUN has been HOLDING KOBE OFF EVERY PICK and has not been called.

YEAH THATS RIGHT IM A LAKER AND KOBE FANBOY

KISS MY ARSE LAKER HATERS


TO LIVE AND DIE IN LA

*DODDODODODOD*

 

[ZOXXO]

The pre-game show is on, the beer is cold and the chips and salsa are out.

Go Pistons.

 

[deftron]

Is she lip synching ?

 

[deftron]

Malone is in street clothes ? :Q

 

[RedPickle]

Originally posted by: deftron
Is she lip synching ?

yes. and she made it quite obvious.

 

[ZOXXO]

Originally posted by: deftron
Is she lip synching ?

Appeared so, didn't it.

 

[js1973]

Originally posted by: RedPickle

Originally posted by: deftron
Is she lip synching ?

yes. and she made it quite obvious.

 

[ZOXXO]

Will Shaq jump the jump ball tonight?

 

[js1973]

Originally posted by: RedPickle

Originally posted by: deftron
Is she lip synching ?

yes. and she made it quite obvious.