Originally posted by: GetOffDez
Here's a link to that game where they fought. BTW, I'm sorry if someone already post it.
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
You are suggesting that Artest didn't back down to Big Ben? lmfao He was shook worse than Snoop is of Suge Knight, did you see the look on his face? Ben would rock him into another time dimension, you clearly must be a Pacer's fanboi to say that Artest wouldn't back down to Big Ben.Originally posted by: NYHoustonman
I've never seen that... Artest is a beast. Granted, Big Ben is moreso, but that doesn't mean Artest, at 6'7" 247 (and he's NOT fat), is gonna back down. He restrained himself, and that was commendable, it doesn't make him a pussy (but apparently he's supposed to restrain himself when something is thrown at him from the stands immediately after... whatever).
AND OF COURSE THE FEKIN NBA AGREES WITH YOU. The NBA wants to restore some kind of credibility to the damned sport. Sure, Artest and them should be suspended, but NOT for that long. It was fuggin self defense no matter how you look at it. Yes, it was an untimely foul, but you could say the same thing about Ben's reaction... The game was over, why start something like that? Why didn't he just take it like a man, because apparently when Ron Artest is provoked that's what he has to do? We all know it was against the rules, and that's all well and good, but what these fans did was ridiculous and I can't see blaming solely Artest for this incident as so many of you do. When you become a professional athlete, you aren't paid to give up your right to self defense. He was hit in the face with a plastic bottle full of liquid IMMEDIATELY after restraining himself during a near-fight that surely had his adrenaline pumping already. I'm sorry, but if you think what Artest did was wrong and that the fans weren't the main problem here, you have issues (and, by the way, the latest ESPN poll shows most of America saying it was the fans that were at fault, so you are, in fact, in the minority, and not vice versa).
Self defense??? Was his life in danger? ummm, right.
Big Ben's reaction was perfectly fine, he was making a statement to a flagrant, cheap foul (with 45 seconds left) by a violent punk thug. He made a statement that said, don't cheapshot me EVER. Artest clearly fouled him hard to get under his skin and incite him, much like Rodman used to do to opponents (except even Rodman didn't flagrant when the game was already all but over.)
A plastic bottle? Open your eyes, better yet PM me and I'll tell you how to watch an avi frame by frame lmao. It was a plastic CUP. They don't allow bottles in Auburn hills, they pour everything into CUPS. I'm a Sixers fan, and somehow I still know this... ever been to an NBA game lately?
Clearly, if you think that Artest wasn't at fault here, you "have issues". Would you feel safe at the game with your whole family (kids even) behind the Pacer's bench, with Artest in the game? What if Artest trampled your wife and kids, and clocked you b/c someone threw a cup of beer at him from the upper deck? Yeah, that's what I thought. And btw, please provide links to proof from ESPN, it's not that hard. There is no poll that I read that said the fans are at fault, stop spreading misinformation. Or better yet, here's a link to ESPN. Scroll down to the poll in the bottom right: 60.1% out of 73,310 people agree with the NBA suspension for Barf-fest.
Originally posted by: NYHoustonman
As I already explained, self defense doesn't have to involve a life threatening situation.
As I've said before, while that foul could have been contrued as dirty, it definetly was NOT hard. Wallace overreacted, period.
From what I saw on the video it was a plastic bottle (or something similar), and I did play it frame by frame (nt btw). You know, those plastic collectors cups with lids and straws (essentially a bottle). And I've been to many sporting events lately and know the standards. Maybe I mistook it; either way it was an object full of liquid that hit him in the face.
That poll was up earlier in the day in the same area as this one you linked to (I figured it wouldn't be that hard to find; apparently I was wrong). I was merely putting down someone else's comment that most people believed Artest was at fault (which, apparently, is the case, but based on all the information I had at the time was untrue). Hindsight is always 20-20.
The incident with Carl Everett has no similarity because Everett had no chance of getting to the fan that threw the object. For Artest, the guy was pretty much right next to him.
That incident you gave me is entirely different. Artest didn't trample anyone; the only 'innocent' person he may have injured (and believe me that guy is gonna end up happy this happened to him) was the guy Artest wrongfully went after, and from the video it didn't seem like this guy was shouting anything nice even BEFORE he realized Artest was coming for him.
We obviously have a difference of opinion here (and I now understand why Yankee fans hate arguing with your biased self-not that I'm not biased myself, but jesus, Wallace didn't overreact? Riiiiiight), so we'll have to agree to disagree. I still think that Artest and O'Neal specifically were hit too hard, and that Ben should have gotten roughly double the time he ended up with (and that, similarly to benched players leaving the bench and being suspended, 'Sheed should get one as well for entering the stands).
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: NYHoustonman
As I already explained, self defense doesn't have to involve a life threatening situation.
As I've said before, while that foul could have been contrued as dirty, it definetly was NOT hard. Wallace overreacted, period.
From what I saw on the video it was a plastic bottle (or something similar), and I did play it frame by frame (nt btw). You know, those plastic collectors cups with lids and straws (essentially a bottle). And I've been to many sporting events lately and know the standards. Maybe I mistook it; either way it was an object full of liquid that hit him in the face.
That poll was up earlier in the day in the same area as this one you linked to (I figured it wouldn't be that hard to find; apparently I was wrong). I was merely putting down someone else's comment that most people believed Artest was at fault (which, apparently, is the case, but based on all the information I had at the time was untrue). Hindsight is always 20-20.
The incident with Carl Everett has no similarity because Everett had no chance of getting to the fan that threw the object. For Artest, the guy was pretty much right next to him.
That incident you gave me is entirely different. Artest didn't trample anyone; the only 'innocent' person he may have injured (and believe me that guy is gonna end up happy this happened to him) was the guy Artest wrongfully went after, and from the video it didn't seem like this guy was shouting anything nice even BEFORE he realized Artest was coming for him.
We obviously have a difference of opinion here (and I now understand why Yankee fans hate arguing with your biased self-not that I'm not biased myself, but jesus, Wallace didn't overreact? Riiiiiight), so we'll have to agree to disagree. I still think that Artest and O'Neal specifically were hit too hard, and that Ben should have gotten roughly double the time he ended up with (and that, similarly to benched players leaving the bench and being suspended, 'Sheed should get one as well for entering the stands).
You never answered my question. Would you feel safe with your wife and kids in the same situation, sitting courtside behind Artest, after this incident? If he trampled your wife and kids for some other punk who threw a beer on him, would you be mad, or think they deserved it because you had been heckling him?
It clearly was not "self defense". Show me an article, any objective reporting that classified his response as "self defense". His life was not in danger by anyone in that arena, it was an isolated incident of liquid hitting him by a thin plastic cup. A 6-7, 250lb man of pure muscle is going to say it was self defense to beat down the nearest fan b/c a plastic cup half filled with beer hit his arm? PLEASE. Even Artest, in interviews afterwards, didn't pull the "self defense" card, he knows it was nothing of the sort and it would have made him look like an even bigger fool. Again, please link to any article that claims it was self defense.
It was clearly a cup. I can link you to numerous articles that corroborate this fact.
The poll is now almost 62% after 191,000 votes, that think the season suspension was fair.
You're wrong about Carl "Crazy" Everett. After getting hit with cell phone, he could have easily ran to the stands and beat down the nearest fan like Artest did. So why didn't he do it??? Why didn't, out of the hundreds of rivalries in the NBA, any player who has been hit with beer act in the same manner?
If the worst the "innocent" fan did was heckling, then yes, he is innocent. You're allowed to heckle at games.
Yes Yankee fans do hate my logic. Big Ben did overreact, but a 6 game suspension is harsh considering no punches were thrown. I did some research for you:
"Team vs. Team -- The Wizards and Bulls won't play nice anytime soon, but they'll remember after the events of this past Monday night. The short version: Larry Hughes shoved one Bull into another as the second was airborne, a scrum ensued, Antonio Davis body-slammed Brendan Haywood, and the final tally was four player suspensions and roughly $600,000 in fines.
Eddy Curry won the prize for cheap shots, however: He got his two-game suspension for punching Haywood in the groin. "I got caught up in the moment and that was the only part of his body I saw," he explained.""
If Wallace had punched Artest in the balls, you would probably be calling for a 20 game suspension, RIGHT? Yet the most anyone got out of a body slam, and a punching in the balls was a 2 game suspension. Think about it for a second... Big Ben just mugged Artest, WOW. He did not throw a punch. Also saying that Sheed should have been suspended for acting as a peacemaker (read the article on ESPN) is ludicrous, as well as your assertion that Big Ben should have been suspended for 12 games. lol
Originally posted by: unclebud
i think the penalties are fair
but why people got to post thinly veiled bigoted/racist comments like "let him go make crappy rap albums with his thug friends." or "this is hip hop boogy ball where the only thang that matters is "tude".."
that is foul (no pun intended)
The detroit pistons are playing .500 basketball as defending champs and they just got blown out by their now most hated rivals and closest eastern conference contenders.Originally posted by: torpid
I have no problem with the suspensions, despite formerly being a fan of artest. But I must say, there's something really wrong with these detroit fans. It's early in the season, the foul wasn't really that hard, and they are the defending champions. What the heck is making them so angry?
Originally posted by: sleepmachine
The detroit pistons are playing .500 basketball as defending champs and they just got blown out by their now most hated rivals and closest eastern conference contenders.
Originally posted by: NYHoustonman
That incident you gave me is entirely different. Artest didn't trample anyone; the only 'innocent' person he may have injured (and believe me that guy is gonna end up happy this happened to him) was the guy Artest wrongfully went after, and from the video it didn't seem like this guy was shouting anything nice even BEFORE he realized Artest was coming for him.
http://www.lectlaw.com/def/d030.htm
Articles, wow. Watch the video frame by frame... If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, it doesn't make this any better.
I repeat; hindsight is always 20-20.
Artest ran to the general area where the projectile came from, something everett couldn't have done. Period.
It may not seem fair, but IMO Wallace should have gotten at least 10 games because of what happened afterwards.
Yes, I would.
It's against the rules to go into the stands, right? Just like it's against the rules to get off the bench during a fight. Same thing here. 4 guys (I think) were suspended 1 game each for leaving the bench, when most of them were acting as peace makers (and it seems like this always happens, with every fight).
I'm not saying it justifies their actions at all. It's enough to get frustrated a bit yeah, but it doesn't justify what happened.Originally posted by: torpid
Originally posted by: sleepmachine
The detroit pistons are playing .500 basketball as defending champs and they just got blown out by their now most hated rivals and closest eastern conference contenders.
Oh god, that means half the fans of all sports teams ought to be rioting. .500 basketball with < 15 games, no big deal. Just a bunch of angry people I guess. I remember the playoff game where juwon howard fouled derek anderson hard. No thrown beverages or riots then. Guess it didn't mean much as an early regular season game.
Originally posted by: Squisher
Originally posted by: NYHoustonman
That incident you gave me is entirely different. Artest didn't trample anyone; the only 'innocent' person he may have injured (and believe me that guy is gonna end up happy this happened to him) was the guy Artest wrongfully went after, and from the video it didn't seem like this guy was shouting anything nice even BEFORE he realized Artest was coming for him.
http://www.lectlaw.com/def/d030.htm
Articles, wow. Watch the video frame by frame... If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, it doesn't make this any better.
I repeat; hindsight is always 20-20.
Artest ran to the general area where the projectile came from, something everett couldn't have done. Period.
It may not seem fair, but IMO Wallace should have gotten at least 10 games because of what happened afterwards.
Yes, I would.
It's against the rules to go into the stands, right? Just like it's against the rules to get off the bench during a fight. Same thing here. 4 guys (I think) were suspended 1 game each for leaving the bench, when most of them were acting as peace makers (and it seems like this always happens, with every fight).
You are still making this lame ass argument?
THERE WAS NO SELF DEFENSE!!!! when you go seeking out the perpetrator of crime to administer your own opinion of punishment. MY GOD.
The only person that would have a self-defense argument in a court of law was the guy sitting down seeing a large black man coming at him, foaming at the mouth, if he had decided to crank Artest in the nards before The IDIOT could hurt him.
So, let me get this straight if you were tailgating a guy, he stopped and you hit him, and then he snapped and got out of his car with a gun and started shooting everyone in sight.
WHAT SHOULD YOU BE CHARGED WITH? Instigating multiple murders?
No, you were following too close. You get a ticket. You're not going to do any time in the big house with Bubba even though your accident caused the guy to snap.
Ben should have gotten 1 game.
Originally posted by: knoxweather
Here is my take on this issue and I'm sure some in here agree. We need to start taking control of the fans. The NBA is sending a bad message to the players by giving them crazy suspensions. How is it fine for a fan to come down on the court into there place of business and how is it fine for a fan to trough objects down onto the court. The fans at Detroit need to be put in jail and fined there selfs. The message needs to be given to them as it has been to the players in the NBA. I'm not a fan of either team, but I'm not after that I don't think I will ever be a Detroit fan.