Planar 17.4" LCD Monitor for $593.10 Shipped at Dell Home

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Rainguy

Elite Member
Apr 13, 2000
5,896
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<< I was just reading this weeks PC Magazine and they did a feature on lcd monitors >>


Ouch, this Planar model seemed to be the runt of the litter at PC Mags lab. I'm glad I did not grab this beast.



<< Our display did well with light-gray shades and color tracking, but dark grays were weak and marred by viewing-angle limitations. Color ramps had noticeable bands, whether the signal was analog or digital.

Viewing angles were clearly more limited than on most of the other monitors, which could be a distinct handicap in portrait mode. Moving images showed average smearing but were jumpy during scrolling. Images that were scaled up from lower resolutions smoothed the text to the point where the letters looked fuzzy.

The PV174 rotates to portrait mode and has both analog and digital connections?features that typically signal a premium product?but missing controls and poor sound negate the gains of the fancy features. Image quality falls short of average, pushing this panel to the back of the pack.
>>



 

Eviscerate

Member
Feb 1, 2002
30
0
0


<< I was just reading this weeks PC Magazine and they did a feature on lcd monitors. They only gave the Planar 2 out of 5 and said that image quality fell short of average. It rated near the bottom out of 16 different models. It doesn't really seem like a hot deal now, luckily I read the mag and decided against ordering it. >>



Did you notice what criteria the reviewer used to judge the display? Here is a quote:

"Unfortunately, sound from the speakers was tinny and thin. Since the front panel lacks a volume control, you'll have to navigate deep into the on-screen menu to adjust the level. The front panel also lacks buttons for auto-sync and signal-source control, again forcing you to work through the menu system. And the button labels on the unit's black case are difficult to read."

"The PV174 rotates to portrait mode and has both analog and digital connections?features that typically signal a premium product?but missing controls and poor sound negate the gains of the fancy features."

So, he doesn't like the speakers (who would use them anyway?) and he is confused by the OSD. How profound. Can someone explain to me how poor speakers and an imperfect OSD render the pv174's portrait mode useless? Not sure the logic the reviewer was using here, but it is questionable. Next, we have a quote that seems a bit odd:

"Viewing angles were clearly more limited than on most of the other monitors"

WHAT? The pv174 utilizes a fujitsu mva panel and has viewing angles of 160 degrees horizontally AND vertically. Not sure which monitor he was looking at when he was typing that little tidbit, but I don't see how it could be the pv174. The most credible parts of this review are the brightness tests done with professional testing equipment. Click on the link I have pasted below and then click the box which reads "Click here to view the results of our performance tests."

Test Results Page

You will notice that while the pv174 scores only average on brightness, it wins first place in brightness variance (consistency of brightness over the entire screen). Now everyone is welcome to their own opinion but I would put more weight on a top ranking brightness variance score than the performance of the monitor's superflous speakers. Here are some more positive comments from the reviewer:

"Once you get to the auto-sync feature, it does a good job synchronizing on analog signals and getting the size, position, and timing correct in one shot. Our display did well with light-gray shades and color tracking..."

One might suggest that I am simply trying to defend the product I own. However, I have not even received the LCD yet. The Planar may indeed be a terrible monitor and if so, I will ship it right back. Personally, I do not put much stock in professional reviews of monitors. While some have the benifit of professional testing equipment, they don't often seem to put it to good use. In my experience, these reviews rarely reflect the actually performance of display (If the display quality is even the focus of the review). My experience consists of a never ending quest to find a monitor that I can live with. I have purchased and returned/exchanged over 10 CRT monitors, some of the same make/model (I was hoping the problems were shipping damage or a manufacturing defect) so far and one LCD (because of limited viewing angle). The professional reviews of many of the monitors I purchased were stellar but when it showed up at my door I was less than impressed. It seems that all 19" CRT monitors will have at least some loss of convergence and focus at the corners/sides/top/bottom and many have less than perfect geometry. I have decided that because I want perfect convergence, focus, and geometry, I must look towards LCDs. Hopefully the Planar will satisfy my seemingly insatiable lust for the "perfect" monitor.

Anyway, my main point is to take professional reviews with a grain of salt. In this case I put more confidence in the many Anandtechers that have posted opinions of the pv174 (both good and bad) than one reviewer who's biggest gripe with this monitor is the speakers and OSD. Not to mention that he neglected to include the fact that it scored the best of all the monitors on brightness variance. Another thing he left out is Planar's 3 year (free 2 day air shipping) warranty. Even if we take the reviewers opinions/observations at face value I don't see how it recieved the lowest rating. Oh well, perhaps I will hate the Planar LCD when it gets here. We shall see.

One last thing, I don't want everyone to think that I am completely jaded and biased against all professional reviews. A few do seem to be very well done. For instance I was impressed by:

Tom's Hardware's review of the p2460

This review was thorough, seemed very honest, and gave a detailed analysis of the display quality. They even evaluated it once with the default settings and then again after calibrating it to it's maximum potential. They also took and posted digital photos of the area of the display that had uncorrectable color variance. I would LOVE to see CRT reviewers take and post digital pics of a few key displaymate test screens such as convergence, focus, and geometry. I wish more reviews were done in this manner instead of the trend of reviewing 10 monitors at a time and only devoting half a page of text to each unit (PcWorld comes to mind).
 

Eviscerate

Member
Feb 1, 2002
30
0
0


<< some notes on expected ship dates as experienced by a group of friends, outlaws, etc.

The monitors that are ordered through dell are drop-shipped directly from Planar.

Dell will notify you through email that the monitor lacks a ship date.

Planar will ship you the monitor within 5 days.

You will r'cve the monitor on the same day as an email from dell, telling you the monitor will
ship within two weeks. ;-)
>>



Well, I ordered on Monday and now I just got the following email:

We have reviewed your order # 762491785, and although we had anticipated
being able to ship your order sooner, we are experiencing an unexpected
delay. We will not be able to ship your order until 2/22/02. We apologize
for this inconvenience, and are doing everything we can to get your order
out to you as quickly as possible.

Is that the email people got the day they received the monitor? I sure hope so. If it does not arrive today, I will have to cancel as I am waiting to return another monitor and only have a limited number of days to do so. It is bizarre to me that people ordering from dell on the same day seem to have vastly different experiences. Some people get tracking numbers, some do not. Some get confirmations, some do not. Some get their monitor the next day or two, some do not. Dell has great prices but their order system sure could use some serious work. Either that or take it out back, shoot it, and get a new system altogether. A question to the other guy who recently received this same email, have you received your Planar yet?
 

Dimitri

Member
Nov 21, 2001
119
0
0
Like I've said before, Dell's ordering system is a joke at best. I today just received in stock speakers that I ordered on 1/13/02. It's a real crap shoot. BTW, I have to say that contrary to what the reviewer said, I thought the Planar panel had excellent image quality, but I can only compare it to CRT's.
 

IshmaelLeaver

Golden Member
Feb 19, 2001
1,519
0
0
"Viewing angles were clearly more limited than on most of the other monitors"

I'd have to agree with this one. My Planar does not like to be viewed at from any angle othe than straight on. Fortunately, this is not an issue for me.

Other than that, the reviewer is full of crap. I think I've used my OSD twice since I bought the monitor several months ago, and who uses built-in speakers anyway?
 

JameyF

Senior member
Oct 5, 2001
845
0
76


<< "Viewing angles were clearly more limited than on most of the other monitors"

I'd have to agree with this one. My Planar does not like to be viewed at from any angle othe than straight on. Fortunately, this is not an issue for me.

Other than that, the reviewer is full of crap. I think I've used my OSD twice since I bought the monitor several months ago, and who uses built-in speakers anyway?
>>



Ditto. I can't complain for under $600 compared to the Hitachi CRT 19" monitor I paid over $700 for (did I just admit that?...hmmm) about 3+ years ago.
 

jamnjk

Member
Nov 15, 2001
55
0
0
I tend to agree with Eviscerate about the PC Mag article - I definitly wouldn't put much merit in it. I ordered this monitor when the deal was first posted and have been very happy with it. The PC Mag demerits for cable hook-up and OSD are unwarranted. Sure the cables are hard to get to but how often are you going to be messing with that and who would use a monitor's speakers in the first place. The OSD is easy to figure out after a quick glance through the users manual. As for brightness, I had to adjust the brightness/contrast settings down because the screen was too bright - it is nowhere near the maximum settings. Another thing, the PC Mag article mentioned nothing about response time and playing games.
I did have a problem with a dark screen when first playing Day of Defeat (HL mod), but after adjusting a few settings from the console the screen was beautiful. I've also played AOE II and Ghost Recon and have no complaints about ghosting or picture quality. (Granted I'm not a graphics conniseur.)
At $600 this is one of the best buy's on the market.
I'm using an overclocked ATI LE graphics card (analog output). I expect even better quality when I get the funds to buy a DVI card that will be able to display at the monitor's native resolution. I previously used a 17" monitor.
MAK
 

jodhas

Senior member
Aug 5, 2001
834
0
0
I have had same problem with others.

I've tried the pulling the card and installed it to my p4/1.7/.5gig ddr/soyo dragon ultra, and no go for me...
same thing with my duron 900 system.

however the dvi seems to work with my geforce 2 mx (only dvi output).

let me know if you did something else to your monitor.
thankx
 

jodhas

Senior member
Aug 5, 2001
834
0
0
I got 2 for work. Need the exta space for CAD drawings. It's replacing 21 Nokia Monitor (Cruddy Monitor)
But due to the incompatability with my graphic card (radeon 7500) I'm going to frys to pick me up a gf3 ti200 tomorrow.

Oh, the other one was for my senior engineer. I convinced him that us engineers need make investments for our eyes' sake.
He agreed. I also told hime lcd = 0 radiation. He's balding a bit and 0 radiation part really made him happy.
He got the P.O. approved in 1 day and got 2 lcd monitors.

Now, i need to go pick up a gf3 ti200 and return the radeon 7500.

 

Noirish

Diamond Member
May 2, 2000
3,959
0
0
the 19" lcd is only 999 so it's going to be 900.
too bad it's only 10% off not 20% or 25% off...
 

mrVW

Senior member
May 18, 2000
992
0
0
Despite Dell sending me email on Thursday saying it wouldn't ship until 2/22 - it came Friday! Now I hae two 17", as I picked up a Syvania (Priceton) at Costco... one of them is going back, haven't decided which one.


Technical Comments / Questions

Anyway - DOS MODE FULL SCREEN, including the BIOS screen - looks really distorted. I understand why it is small size, but why is it so distorted? Am I the only one? I am using a Matrox G550 Dual Head card... The Slyvania doesn't have this problem... and it is a 17" 1280x1024 just like the Planar... ALSO: I can NOT get the on-screen menu to come up on full screen DOS mode.

Also, according to their web site:
LInk to Planar FAQ page This monitor has auto-adjust, but I can't figure out how to activate (the directions on the FAQ page don't match what I find in meny). Searc the web page for "PV174" to find what I'm talking about...

 

jaggrey

Golden Member
Nov 18, 2000
1,528
0
76


<< "Viewing angles were clearly more limited than on most of the other monitors"

I'd have to agree with this one. My Planar does not like to be viewed at from any angle othe than straight on. Fortunately, this is not an issue for me.
>>

Planar must've changed the monitor quite a bit from mine (non-pivot version). I can view mine from almost every angle.
 

JameyF

Senior member
Oct 5, 2001
845
0
76
It's viewable from almost all angles, but the picture quality is MUCH better from straight on. The colors are washed out when looking from significant angles.
 

JameyF

Senior member
Oct 5, 2001
845
0
76


<< Also, according to their web site:
LInk to Planar FAQ page This monitor has auto-adjust, but I can't figure out how to activate (the directions on the FAQ page don't match what I find in meny). Searc the web page for "PV174" to find what I'm talking about...
>>



Are you hooked up digital? If you are, there is no auto adjust, since there is nothing to adjust in digital except for contrast and brightness.
 

WalkingDead

Golden Member
Jul 28, 2000
1,103
0
76
hard to access the connectors in the back? Here's what I did: flip the LCD from landscape mode to portrait mode. Then, all the ports are easily accessable to the left of the LCD. Then I just flip it back to landscape mode when I'm done. It's much easier than hooking cables on landscape mode only LCDs.

The reviewer must be too lazy to read to manual. When the OSD is not active, you can easily adjust brightness, contrast with the 2 left buttons and audio volume & video input selection with the 2 right buttons. The auto sync function is available by press the menu button, then it's the 1st item on the OSD. Press one of the right buttons & wait 10 sec than it's done. How hard is that? I can figure that out without even reading the manual.


 

Eviscerate

Member
Feb 1, 2002
30
0
0


<< Despite Dell sending me email on Thursday saying it wouldn't ship until 2/22 - it came Friday! Now I hae two 17", as I picked up a Syvania (Priceton) at Costco... one of them is going back, haven't decided which one. >>



Interesting, I got that same email on Friday, maybe my pv150 will come on Monday. Dell seems to have a laughably inept ordering system. I just picked up a Rad-5 at walmart because I have to ship back my CRT to obtain a refund. The CRT has to be returned within a certain number of days and I can not wait until the 22nd. If the pv150 gets here on Monday, I guess I'll just have to see which one I like better. So far the Rad-5 is great! 0 dead pixels, almost no ghosting, and the display looks very nice.

*Edit* One more question, was your credit card charged before you recieved the monitor or was a hold just put on it? My credit card has not been charged but does have a hold on it. I guess I am hoping it has shipped, but is this unlikely since my credit card does not show the final charge?
 

phyder

Junior Member
May 28, 2001
4
0
0
Has anyone figured out the radeon 7500/8500 DVI connection no boot screens problem. I'm seeing exactly what everyone else seems to: Brief flashes of the boot screens and then nothing 'til WinXP login screen. This really won't work for me since I still dual boot into WinMe for some legacy stuff and can't even see that screen. I would REALLY appreciate it if someone has figured this out and could let me/us know. Otherwise, I guess I'll be sending my AIW 8500DV back to newegg.

BTW, the motherboard is a K7s5A if that helps.

THanks again,



P.S. Love the monitor!
 

Rainguy

Elite Member
Apr 13, 2000
5,896
0
0


<< about the PC Mag article - I definitly wouldn't put much merit in it. >>



Well of course everyone that bought this LCD will disagree with the review. You don't want to feel like you wasted your money
 

mrVW

Senior member
May 18, 2000
992
0
0
Answers and more comments:

Not sure if Dell charged my credit card when shipped or what, I did this on my business account... don't have access to online statement.

As for the lack of automatic centering - yes I'm using the digital port - so that explains why that setting is missing. All I get is brightness and contrast.

Comments on the LCD

Intro: I have a brand new Matrox G550 Dual Head 32MB AGP card. I'm a software developer (Web applications) and long-time Dual Head user. I used to have two 19" Sun (Sony Trinitron) monitors.... now I live in a RV on the road and went 5 months with just my ThinkPad T21 14.1" XGA display... but working with a customer who had the Slyvania I realized how much brigher the desktop LCD's are compared to my ThinkPad. Doing coding sometimes 16 hours a day, the better picture quality makes a difference.

I have a huge project ahead, marathon coding for the next 8 weeks (16 hour days staring at screen). So I put together a kickass 4u rack-mount system that I installed under my couch (see the other thread about the P4 1.6 + Asus motherboards.) Anyway, I went and got Costco Slyvania 17" and was going to return it after the Dell arrived... Dell told me the Planar wouldn't be here until 2/22 - well, now I have both! So I get to compare...

The Slyvania (Princeton) 17" is cheaper. $500 after $30 rebate @ Costco (they sell it online or in store). It doesn't have digital cable input, nor does it pivot. But it is VERY BRIGHT, substantially brighter than the Planar, and both are much brigher than my ThinkPad T21 (my wife also has a ThinkPad T20 which has the same 14.1" XGA display, it is same brightness level).

Anyway - The planar - I find NO PROBLEM looking at it from the side in portrait or landscape. It is just like my ThinkPad and the Sylvania. Are people really having problems seeing it from angles?

I really like the portrait mode, I have to give up cleartype fonts, but for the limited desk space I have - I can put two 17" side by side where I was planning on using a 17" and 15"... but with the portrait mode - dual head kicks ass! Having two 17" side by side in portait is way better than my 19" Sony tubes were... (which I used the first 3/4 of 2001).

Anyway - my main complaint with the Planar is how stinky the DOS MODE full text is. Every line is cut off / fonts really messed-up. But I'm not going to use it for that, so I'll likely live with it.

The Matrox G550 drivers work GREAT with the pivot. I can actually pivot each display independent. Right now I have the Planar running portrait and the Sylvania landscape. In a week or so I have to decide if I want to get another Planar (so both can be in portrait), get a cheaper 15" LCD for 2nd display (just run at 1024x768 landscape), or keep the Sylvania,.

Personally I feel the digital cable doesn't do much... The Sylvania is analog and I don't see any signal distortion...

One more comment: I have read that all these 17" LCD's should be run at 60Hz refresh. Make sure you didn't crank it up... these are NOT CRT's, you don't really gain anything by going to higher refresh.
 

CirekL

Senior member
Nov 16, 2000
541
0
0
Problems with DOS? Hmm... no problems here on my Linux Shell. Haven't tried with Windoze yet.
As for the speakers, I haven't tried them yet. I guess it's the same reasoning as to why I'm not still using the generic Labtec speakers that came with my 1993 AST.
There's a pretty good deal going on for some THX certified Logitec Z560's going around anyways. This must be the sweetest thing to my eyes since I went from a 15" mon. to 19".
And this sucker actually has more viewable area than my 19" Pixie Monitor.
I have noticied a lot of Type-o's in the documentation though (I got bored and read it okay!!! so sue me ).
 

VisionsUCI

Golden Member
Oct 21, 2000
1,834
0
0
I have it and I love it. Just as a comment, however, the bezel surrounding the screen is pretty thick, plus you probably won't be using the speakers, and the usb hub freezes my computer for some reason. I just use it as a nicely priced lcd monitor, and I like it. It works great for counterstrike!
 

civh

Junior Member
Jul 15, 2000
23
0
0
I have mine for over a week now and I love it. It was sharp when hooked up to my GF2 pro analog output and sharper on my GF2MX digital output. There is a little ghosting in fps. USB hub works fine for me. Never bothered with the speakers. I also dislike the bezel, way too thick and the buttons feel really cheap.

Regarding the PC Mag review. It is a load of crap. This monitor deserve more than 2. I have the Dell 17 inch at work and the screen on that is much worst. White is not truly white and I have to max out the brightness and contrast on the Dell for it to look somewaht decent.
 

mrVW

Senior member
May 18, 2000
992
0
0
I was watching a DVD on the two monitors (Sylvania/Princeton vs. Planar).

The Planar is almost not bright enough for some DVD's... Anyone had problems with dark 3d games?

Turning up the contrast washes out the colors...
 

Eviscerate

Member
Feb 1, 2002
30
0
0
I have a question, try displaying an all black screen on the Planar and turn off all ambient lighting (preferably at night). Does the screen look black or dark grey? My Rad-5 looks a lot more grey than black. In a dark room, a "black" screen actually slightly illuminates the room a bit. Is this normal for a Rad-5? Is this normal for all LCDs? Does the Planar display black as pure black or does it look a bit grey?

This quirk seems odd to me because the Rad-5's screen is much blacker when turned off as compared to a CRT. Also, since I thought that LCD pixels were either on or off, a black LCD pixel would be pure black. Boy was I wrong, what is the scoop on this?

It seems that the Rad-5's brightness control does absolutely nothing. There is however a black level control that adjusts perceived brightness, but adjusting that makes everything too dark and does not make black look much blacker. I thought that brightness controls actually adjusted black level, so it seems odd to me that a monitor would have both brightness AND black level controls. Maybe the brightness control is just there so people don't freak out about not having one, even though it seems non-functional.

Other than that, the Rad-5 seems perfect. Colors are very bright and not washed out at all. I actually turn down the contrast when my room is dark because the thing is so bright, but with full contrast colors do not wash out, they just look brighter. Black text on a white background seems very dark and pure. It is just when a majority of the screen is black, it looks a bit too grey. For instance, the mostly black loading screen for windows XP looks a bit too bright. I have tried to make this thing ghost and it almost doesn't ghost at all. This may be one area that the Rad-5 beats the Planar, judging by some of the complaints of ghosting on the pv174. When playing Serious Sam SE, ghosting is not a problem at all and that is one seriously fast paced FPS. Games look great except for black not looking pure black, which can be a problem in dark games. I'd hate to play Aliens vs. Predator 2 on this, that game was soo dark.
 

Dimitri

Member
Nov 21, 2001
119
0
0
I've yet to see an LCD that looked pure black while it was still on showing a black screen. The screen always has a glow to it and looks more dark gray than black.
 
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