Planar LCD

[Th3Saint]

Hello there!

I`m new here. I was wondering if anybody here has this monitor

Planar PX191

It looks pretty good, anybody has it that can give a little review of it?

Thanks

(is ghosting present on DVDs and games?)

 

[The Sauce]

Just released today. No reviews yet. I'm planning on getting one too once I'm sure the ghosting is tolerable.

 

[Th3Saint]

Thank you

I hope someone will review it soon enough!

 

[HardWired]

Actually it's been available at Dell for a couple of weeks now. With a 25 ms. pixel response time, you can be assured there will be some ghosting. I would almost refer to is as smearing rather than ghosting. I had the PL191 and while it wasn't too bad, it was there.

In order to have NO ghosting/smearing, you need a pixel response time of sub 20 ms. The Planar PX171 and Hitchi and a couple of other brands have response times of 16 ms. but they are all 17" displays. There isn't a LCD display out there that I know of that is larger than 17" and has a 16 ms. response time.

Since I spend 90% of my time in Windows and play less and less games as I'm getting older, I decided I can put up with the slight smearing that takes place. While I don't watch DVD's in front of my computer (I'd rather use the living room, couch, and big-screen TV) DVD playback looks great on the PL191, so you can be sure they'll look as good if not better on the PX191. But gaming, especialy first person shooters, will experience some ghosting/smearing, albeit ever so slight. People have reported "no ghosting" on a 25 ms. LCD display, but that is simply not possible due to the technology. Their eyes just aren't catching it.

I sent the PL191 back and was going to go back to a CRT, but have since changed my mind again and I'm going to try out the PX191 in a week or two.

I don't need speakers on the display (the 1 watt speakers on the PL191 are useless for anything other than beeps and assorted Windows sounds anyway) and there are 3 things that are bringing me to try the PX191 over the PL191. Higher contrast and brightness specs., the all-around thin bezel, and the way it adjusts up and down and flips from landscape to protrait mode.

I just wish it also had the 16 ms. response time like the PX171, but I guess you can't have everything. With my luck, 3 months (or sooner) after I buy the PX191, the industry will come out with a 19" LCD that does have 16 ms. response time.

BTW...here's a link to a thread from a forum member who had the Dell and the Planar side by side and at first he claims no ghosting, but later updates it to admit that he does infact notice some.

Link

 

[The Sauce]

Hey when you get the PX and get a chance to play with it could you update here and give me a PM. I am interested in what you have to say about the ghosting and I am big gamer so that will be important to me.

 

[Th3Saint]

Same here....I`m waiting for you reviews if you`d be so kind to post one here!!

Thanks

 

[HardWired]

Well I can assure you my review will be what I already posted above. It may be brighter and more brilliant looking with the higher brightness/contrast specs., but because it still has a 25 ms. pixel response time like the PL191, there will still be some ghosting/smearing. That's just a fact of the technology.

Although it's a different technology altogether and not measured in the same way, I've read that a CRT has a theoretic pixel response time of 15 ms.. That's why at 16 ms. on a LCD, you can view a fast-action game or DVD with no smearing.

I'm going to call it smearing from here on. Because to me it's not like a ghost, or a double image, but rather a smear of the original image. For instance, my favorite game at the moment is Need For Speed: Hot Pursuit II. The car I'm driving looks sweet when swerving all over the road, and the cars next to me and the environment moving past me looks tight as well, but up in the distance, the cars in front that look very distant and tiny look like the colors are smearing rather than a tight looking shape of a small car. If I can grab a screenshot of it I'll post it.

I've seen reviews where people with 25 ms. displays (Dell, Samsung, Hitachi, Planar... whoever) claim that they don't see any smearing. If they look closely, it's there. At 25 ms., it simply has to be. Again, it's a shortcoming of the technology. But it's not enough of a distraction to people to let it bother their overall gaming experience.

It's akin to using a aperture grill (Trinitron) CRT. Some people don't notice or won't let themselves be bothered by the fine wire(s) streching across the screen. I use a 21" Trinitron CRT and rarely ever notice the wires, except on a white screen or if I'm really paying attention and looking for them. Some people hate the wires so much and find them to be such a constant distraction that they will not use a AG monitor.

That's how gaming is on a 25 ms. LCD. The smearing is there but because it's so slight, (compared to a 30-50 ms. LCD which is really noticeable) people choose not to be bothered by it.

I won't have the display in my hands for another week or two, so if that's too far off, just order one from a reputable reseller that gives a 30 day satisfaction guarantee, like Dell, and check it out yourself. Dell probably has the cheapest price on it right now.

The worst that can happen is that you'll not be happy with it for gaming and have to spend $12-$15 to send it back. But you'll be awestruck with how sweet it looks in Windows, especially if you've never used a LCD, like myself. That's why I want it back.

Again, from all that I've read in the countless hours I've spent lately educating myself on LCD's , you simply must have a sub 20 ms. response time, or you will see some smearing in fast action games. And that has been my experience from personally using the PL191. If you're into games that don't have a lot of high speed movement, you'll be very pleased with the PX191. Even if you do play a lot of fast-action games, and aren't the pickiest person in the world, you'll still be very happy with it.

To me, the biggest factor is the 2D Windows environment. I've never seen a web page look more colorful and sharp and brilliant. It's just a drop-dead gorgeous display.

 

[The Sauce]

Well said. However, I have heard some rumblings about how pixel response time is a somewhat subjective (or fudge-able, if you will) measure and that one monitor's 25 is not the same as another monitor's 25ms. With the inevitable advances in technology I had just assumed that this monitor may be somewhat superior in that regard despite the same ms rating. That's what I'm hoping for anyway....maybe just a pipe dream.

Either way please do let us know.

 

[DaviDaVinci]

i'm interested too since i'll be moving to soon, and I can't possibly carry my 21" Sony......and gawd that thing heats up the room, good for colder climates

 

[HardWired]

Okay, I ordered the PX191 today and it should be here on Tuesday. Dell simply forwards the order to Planar and it's shipped directly from Planar's facility in Beaverton, Oregon. I know this because of my experience ordering from Dell and using the PL191 a few weeks back. So if it ships tomorrow, the day after my order like it did last time, it should arrive at my door here in Colorado on Tuesday.

I went with the silver rather than black bezel. I had the PL191 in black and thought it was.....well, I don't know exactly what I thought about it. I just think the silver bezel looks more elegant and stylish in the pictures I've seen of it, and I guess I'll find out when I have it sitting here in front of me in a few days.

And Snatchface, I know manufacturers can use just about whatever specs they want when describing LCD's (except for size and weight, which are obviously measurable), but I'd say the 25 ms is right on the money for Planar's rated response times. From what I've read, anything sub 20 ms. should be smear/ghost free, and the PL191 was ever so close. Again, it's one of those things you have to look for to see, rather than it obviously jumping out at you. So unless you're very very picky, the 25 ms. response on the PL or PX series should be just fine for most people and their gaming. If you're a perfectionist, the 17" PX171 and it's 16 ms. response time would be the way to go because there is NO ghosting ever, no matter how you look at it.

Below is a quote from a user over at Rage3d.com. who has a little insight, it seems, about LCD's. It lends to my position that Planar sells exquisite looking LCD's, and stands behind them with a 3 year warranty that not only covers the backlight (which many top mfg.'s don't), but they will also replace (not repair) a display with only 3 dead sub-pixels. A pixel is comprised of 3 sub-pixels. So all it takes is one completely dead pixel or 3 subs on different pixels for Planar to replace via their 2nd Day Air "Customer First" warranty, which also covers the shipping costs on both the one coming to you, and the bad one you're sending back.

Anyway, here's the quote. It's a long one, but worth the read if you're considering a LCD purchase:

The way it was explained to me...Certain companies purchase the grade 1 panels for themselves (usually look flawless in manufacturing). They make certain models out of those panels and then pass the grade 2 and grade 3 panels (where some panels will look flawless, but others will contain flaws to varying degrees). Example...Hitachi and Planar only use grade 1 screens on EVERY model they make. They have the 0 dead pixel policy because of it. Samsung will use the grade 1 panels on certain models (like 171P-The Porsche Model, the 171MP-Multimedia model). Then they will use grade 2 panels on numerous other models and let the grade 3 panels go to some off name brand. Certain "cheaper" brands are cheaper for a reason. They purchase grade 3 panels and will make, for example, 500 panels. Of the 500...they will get 100-150 perfect looking panels. The rest will have dead pixels, light vertical lines, etc. Most purchasers don't pay attention to flaws. On the other hand...I am the other end of the spectrum...I have had my Dell laptop with a 14.1" Hitachi screen for two years. NEVER one dead pixel on a screen with resolution 1400 x 1050. The screen is exquisite! Colorful and more. As a matter of fact, as I type on the CML174...I notice how vivid color is. In WinXP...the upper right hand X button is RED...on the Samsung and Viewsonic...it is a washed out red....Colors dance off the screen on this panel. Can't tell you how to tell the difference in companies...I purchased from MonitorsDirect.com and they have a comparison chart that you can run on all monitors. When comparing...one of the criteria is the Dead Pixel Policy. You can see it stated in black and white...many companies like Samsung, Viewsonic, CTX, and others will say No Policy Stated...which is not a good thing. Believe it or not..I think that Hercules buys mostly grade 1 panels from Samsung. Anyway...even the techs at MonitorsDirect say that one should first consider only the companies that are willing to stick their necks in the noose and state a dead pixel policy...they are usually the companies with the highest grade panels. Sort of put your money where your mouth is.

Sorry to ramble...thought it was good food for thought for anyone considering making a purchase...

Bob



I hope that was helpful....

 

[AeroSnoop]

Hard Wired, did you get your px191 yet? I am interested to know what you think about it.

 

[Th3Saint]

Yes...did you get it?

Thanks for the good read right there by the way!

 

[Chadder007]

In to see how the new Planer is too.....mostly to see if it justifies the 150-200 mark up in price above the previous model.

 

[Maverick]

lol he only ordered two days ago just be patient guys. I want to see how his response times are.

 

[stiplit]

I am also in the market for a 19 inch LCD and have been eyeing the Planar PX191. I have also found the new sharp LL-T19D1. It also boasts a 700:1 contrast with 300cd/m2 brightness. It has 2 analog and 1 DVI connection which is kinda interesting. Has anyone seen or heard anything about this monitor? Its slightly cheaper than the Planar but does not have the pivotting display. I'm not sure what the pixel refresh rate is on it?

Here is the link: Sharp LL-T19D1

 

[HardWired]

Yes I just ordered it yesterday, so it didn't ship from Planar until today (I'm assuming from past experience), but then when posting yesterday I forgot about Labor Day on Monday (UPS and Fed-Ex are off), so it'll probably not arrive until Wed., rather than Tue.

But yes, having used the PL191 as early as 10 days ago, I will have a pretty good insight on whether it's worth the extra $$ for the PX with it's higher brightness and contrast specs. rather than the PL. I know I do like the looks of the new all-around thinner bezel with no speakers on the PX better, but performance wise I'll just have to wait and see.

Edit:
Actually..I just remembered that Dell/Planar sent my PL191 via Fed-Ex Saver, not UPS ground, so not including the shipping day (today hopefully) 3 days means it may still arrive this Tuesday rather than Wednesday.

 

[mscottNSCP]

I also just ordered the PX191 from Dell last week. It was going to ship on Tuesday but I just got email saying the order is delayed until May 30th. I'm assuming Dell is out of stock on the monitor.

HardWired, what made you go with the silver? I had the hardest time picking between the two bezel colors =). I ended up ordering the silver only because I could not find a large picture of the black bezel. I was worried the black would look cheap. Since you can't see planar monitors in the store, it makes it hard.

Anyway, I'm a big UT2003 gamer. Once the monitor arrives, I'll add some comments on the monitor for those of you waiting to see how it performs.

-Scott

P.S. There is suprisingly little information out on google about the planar PX191. Still haven't come across any reviews yet other than the discussions in this forum.

 

[Th3Saint]

Thanks ...let us know how it is

 

[HardWired]

mscottNSCP:
It's only been out a couple of weeks so it's easy to understand why there hasn't been much news/reviews on it yet. And it seems like monitors are towards the bottom of the list of hardware reviewed for whatever reason.

As I previously said, I went with the silver bezel because it just looks more elegant and stylish, IMO. And just for reference, the black Planar is definitely black. Deep dark black, not a light shade of black. And it didn't necessarily look cheap, it just didn't do anything for me.

That's a bummer to read that Dell sent you a backorder notice. I ordered mine on the 20th and have not received an email regarding it being delayed...so who knows.

 

[HardWired]

Also, I don't think Dell keeps any stock of Planar products. It would be Planar that is out of stock...or has never really had stock of them yet. The PL191 I bought from Dell shipped directly from Planar out of Oregon, with the Planar shipping label. Dell just takes and then forwards the orders to Planar to fill. At least that is my prior experience with a Planar purchase form Dell.

Planar states on their site "availabe May 17th", but in reality according to you, that's not true. What a bummer!

I guess it's no different than video card companies shooting for a debut date of their hardware to retail and then rarely ever meeting it... :disgust:

 

[mscottNSCP]

Thanks for the response Hardwired. Yeah I didn't realize that Planar ships the monitors directly and that Dell just passes the buck.

Here's the message I recieved from Dell:

"we are experiencing an unexpected delay and will not be able to ship this
order and any associated orders until on or before 5/30/2003."

I placed my order Saturday the 17th and received the back order notice on the 21st.

Hopefully you won't get the same message in a day or so =).

Hearing your description of the black LCD makes me happier that I picked the silver. Thanks for the extra description.

I'm sure we are both going to enjoy these puppies when they arrive =).

Good luck with your order

-Scott

 

[HardWired]

Thanks for the "good luck" but here's what I received today:

We have reviewed your order. Although we had anticipated being able to ship your order sooner, we are experiencing an unexpected delay and will not be able to ship this order and any associated orders until on or before 6/3/2003.

They even moved the date back a couple of days from what you were sent :|

On a side note, here's link to someone in the FS/FT forum selling a Planar video/TV tuner.

He wants $75 for it...

 

[HardWired]

Well, getting tired of waiting, I sent Planar a message through their website stating that Dell customers are being given delay notices for their PX191 orders. I also stated that I know Dell doesn't keep physical stock of Planar displays but that Dell forwards orders to Planar who then ships directly from the Planar facility in Oregon. I asked if the PX191 is even available at all yet to the general retail public, since their site states available May 17th.

I'll let you all know if I get a response from them.

 

[mscottNSCP]

Thanks for asking Planar about the hold up. I'm also getting extremely frustrated by the wait. I'm hoping it is just back ordered and not an actual production delay.

Looking forward to seeing what Planar tells you.

 

[mscottNSCP]

Even worse news! I just got this follow up letter from DELL, delaying the ship date yet again. And it was supposed to ship tomorrow =(....

"we are experiencing an unexpected delay and will not be able to ship this
order and

any associated orders until on or before 6/11/2003."

Hope your having better luck...