Plane hits building.

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Redneck

Senior member
May 20, 2000
386
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Im going to try not to go off on too much of a rant.

First off, the media cant get its sh!t straight when it comes to breaking news like this. One report (OCnow.com) says the plane that went down in Fullerton was a single engine Cessna 337, except a 337 is a twin engine plane, and it took all of 5 minutes to obtain that information. Then the Colorado crash reports first say its a four engine commuter plane, then they finally decide its a small single engine plane. BIG difference.

On the plane crash in Tampa. Calling it a suicide run as drudgereport did is just wrong. The only facts we have so far is that he took off without clearance and hit a building. We do not know how or why it hit the building. That is what the NTSB is for.Control Failures do happen. Planes have been hitting buildings since planes were invented. The vast majority of them arent intentional. As far as:

<< Warning shots? Blow him into pieces too little to hurt anything on the ground when the debris falls down as an example not to be fcking around in North American airspace. >>

Would you be so eager to do that if it was a 747 loaded with 400 people? Were not a lot of people angry when a Peruvian air force jet did exactly that to an american missionary plane because somebody couldnt translate correctly? And as far as the Coast Guard saying that the pilot knew what the signals meant, as far as i know, the intercept procedures have never been part of the testing to get a pilots license, nor did most pilots know there were even procedures like them until after 9/11.

Vespasian, there were 101 aircraft accidents last month. big difference.

Now there is some stupid "military analyst" on MSNBC saying that yea it its a small plane, doesnt do much damage to a building, but what happens if it hit a nuclear power plant for example. The FAA had the concern for a while and had a temporary rerstriction on flights near and over power plants. Problem was, it was limited to small planes, which cannot cause harm to a nuclear plant, but it allowed large commercial planes to fly overhead, which, as we have seen, can destroy even huge structures.
 
Aug 10, 2001
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<< Vespasian, there were 101 aircraft accidents last month. big difference. >>


What's the difference? It's not like it's a list of planes that had maintenance problems.
 

Redneck

Senior member
May 20, 2000
386
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No it is not, but it is also not alist of planes that have gone out of control and hit something, which is what most people associate the words crash and airplane with.
 

kgraeme

Diamond Member
Sep 5, 2000
3,536
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<< No it is not, but it is also not alist of planes that have gone out of control and hit something, which is what most people associate the words crash and airplane with. >>



A "crash" according to the FAA is basically any time the plane does not land properly. Whether that means planting it into the ground or a building, or just an electrical systems failure that requires ditching it in the field with no fatalities, it's all reported and adds to the "crash" count. Take this for example:

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On December 7, 2001, at 2315 mountain standard time, a Beech 90-E90, airplane, N5NM, registered to and operated by Seven Bar Flying Service Inc., Albuquerque, New Mexico, was substantially damaged after its landing gear collapsed while landing on runway 01 at the Santa Rosa Route 66 Airport, Santa Rosa, New Mexico. The commercial pilot and his two passengers were not injured.
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That's pretty standard stuff. Most "crashes" take place at takeoff or landing, and most are non-fatal. Notice on the FAA page that of the 100 or so crashes last Dec. that only 26 involved fatalities. Just out of curiosity, I did a quick search of the national car crash database, I found at least 382 crashes in Dec of 2000. Again, most non-fatal.
 

kgraeme

Diamond Member
Sep 5, 2000
3,536
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<< Now there is some stupid "military analyst" on MSNBC saying that yea it its a small plane, doesnt do much damage to a building, but what happens if it hit a nuclear power plant for example. The FAA had the concern for a while and had a temporary rerstriction on flights near and over power plants. Problem was, it was limited to small planes, which cannot cause harm to a nuclear plant, but it allowed large commercial planes to fly overhead, which, as we have seen, can destroy even huge structures. >>



I completely agree with you on that one. Because of this rule, I'm afraid to fly up to see some friends. There is a nuclear power plant in their general vicinity, but I don't dare fly near it. Here's the specific rule:

PILOTS ARE ADVISED TO AVOID THE AIRSPACE ABOVE, OR IN PROXIMITY TO, SITES SUCH AS NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS, POWER PLANTS, DAMS, REFINERIES, INDUSTRIAL COMPLEXES, AND OTHER SIMILAR FACILITIES.

What does that really mean?? They didn't define what that meant on a map. It was so vague, that I could be twenty miles away and be in violation. But since I don't even know where all the powerplants and such are, I'm bound to be in violation at some point.

Even worse is/was the prohibition from flying over any sports stadium, high-school sporting event, or any similar large gathering of people. Ah crap. How was I supposed to know if a high-school was having a basketball game? And how does this not include a Walmart or any shopping mall? Ridiculous.

For anyone interested, here's a list of current restrictions. Try reading that before every time you go flying.
 

mcveigh

Diamond Member
Dec 20, 2000
6,468
6
81
Everyone is jumping to too many conclusions.
Fist off let me say that I work in the same hangar as National Aviation. I work for an air ambulance company down the hall from them.
I feel they have very good security in that hangar, to go out to the hangar you have too sign out, and have a reason and wear ID showing you are a visitor.
On the local news they are reporting he was doing a pre-flight checklist as told to do so by his instructor. His instructor apparently went back in the buildging and that's when he hopped in and took off.

those of you who are pilots know how easy it is to fly one of those little planes, and he even had flight traing for a while. I sincerely hope that National Aviation stays in business. All of their people seem to know and like their jobs. I am even trying to find the time to do some training with them.


 

jbod

Senior member
Sep 20, 2001
495
0
0
"The 15-year-old flight student who crashed a stolen Cessna 172 airplane into Tampa's tallest building on Saturday left behind a suicide note expressing sympathy for Osama bin Laden and support for the 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon, a Florida law enforcement official said at a news conference Sunday afternoon."

Where are the apologists? I want to hear your excuses.
 
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