Planning a trip to Italy and Paris, France

[z0mb13]

So the missus and I plan to do a 12 days trip to Italy and France (Paris) in early August

We've never been to Italy so we are making a rough outline on the areas of interest..

So far here is the rough itinerary:
- Fly into Rome and spend 2-3 nights there
- Train ride to Florence and spend 2-3 nights
- Train or rent a car to Bologna to spend 2-3 nights. Plan is to drive around the area to see the smaller cities (Tuscan region)
- Train to Venice to spend one night
- Fly to Paris to spend 3 nights there

Do let me know of inputs! Should we spend more time in Rome/FLorence/ etc...
Any specific must see/eat places in each of the cities?
Recommendation on where to stay? We plan to stay in bed and breakfast and maybe splurge in one of the cities to keep costs reasonable

Some background of us: foodies in early 30s who love to walk around!

Thanks for your inputs!

 

[fstime]

To each their own, but that does not sound like a relaxing vacation but just the opposite.

Planning on visiting so many destinations in only two weeks, it sounds like you're constantly going to be on the move with little time to wind down.

 

[z0mb13]

To each their own, but that does not sound like a relaxing vacation but just the opposite.

Planning on visiting so many destinations in only two weeks, it sounds like you're constantly going to be on the move with little time to wind down.

Oh yes this will not be relaxing vacation.. More like exploring and soaking in the culture/food! If we want relaxing we can just go to maldives and spend a week on the beach

 

[_Rick_]

If you want culture and food, I would alternate between rural and urban stays.
Sure, the cities are nice, but they're also tourist traps.

How good is your Italian? If you don't speak it, I expect you won't be able to escape the tourist traps. You won't get much actual culture then though, instead you'll get to see some of the historical sites, which is something different. You won't be able to get into the local culture, without having local contacts.

That out of the way - for the Italy part of the trip you might want to think about turning it into a road trip. You'll be spending more time on the road, but you'll be able to stop in smaller towns and villages on the way. Also, it might be interesting to pass through Modena, Milano and Torino, while you're in the North. Unless your flight leaves from Venice, I would probably skip it. Torino/Milano - Paris is a direct train ride, which takes you through the Alpes in the beginning, and then onto the high speed Lyon-Paris bit, which is a very nice train ride through rolling hills. I don't get tired of that one, it really gives you a taste of the French countryside.

I suppose the south of Italy is out, with your tight schedule, otherwise that would have been a nice counterpoint to Northern cuchina.
For restaurants in Paris, I would first have a look at the guide Michelin (even though it's corrupt), and check out a star-rated restaurant or two.
I once, long ago, ate at a Restaurant on the La Defense side of the Seine, so outside the worst bit of the bustling town. There's Mouffetard to explore in Paris, where you can at least have an aperitif (obligatory, when you're in France). I would recommend going in search of a bar around seven, and then head to the restaurant at eight.

In August the Eiffel Tower queues will be endless, so if you want a vantage point higher than Sacre Coeur, go south to the Tour Montparnasse (I think it's called), where there's no queues, and less tourist trappings. For lunch, try the sandwiches, in one of the numerous bakeries. I would also recommend La Villette (Cite des Sciences) and the Grand Palais which has been under renovation for some years and contains the science musuem. The Louvre is a day trip, if you want to see more than just a quarter of what's on offer, the Musee d'Orsay can be done in an afternoon, without missing anything.

Disclaimer: I have only been to Rome once, a few years ago, but I should probably take a holiday in Northern Italy sometime, while I still live 2 hours from the border. I've been to Paris quite a few times, these last years, but the last time I went there as a tourist, was 8 years ago.

 

[z0mb13]

Wow rick thanks a lot for the extensive input

Sadly my italian is non existant, also this being our first trip to italy we cant avoid the tourist traps because they alone are worth going.. I really want to do a road trip but i dont want to risk it for our first trip there because we dont want to waste time finding the way and getting lost..
We plan to go to the rural areas when we are in bologna, taking day train trips to modena or some winery nearby..
Really u think venice is worth skipping? I hear conflicting reviews on venice... Some say its very romantic and some say its worth only doing once before it sinks..

Btw how long is the train ride from milan to paris? We love looking at the country side but in the same time domt want to waste too much precious time either

Thanks!!

 

[frodrick]

My wife and I did four nights in Rome, three in Florence, and two in Venice this past February. Rome was fantastic, Florence was okay, and Venice was good but likely something we'd skip next time.

Rome
The Vatican scavi tour was by far the best thing we did in all of Italy. We aren't religious so we had no real connection to Peter's tomb, but everything else you see down there was well worth it. In addition you completely skip the line to get into the basilica.
We liked Borghese, the forum, and pantheon, but didn't care much for the colloseum.
Food wise, we had a lot of good food but flavio al velavevodetto was the by far the best.

Florence
The accademia and uffizi were nice to see but not amazing. Some of the smaller churhes like santa croce were nice and good breaks from the crowds and pace of florence. Trattoria mario was decent but not amazing. If you have the time, think about taking a bus to siena. antica osteria da divo was fantastic.

Venice was nice but something you probably only need to see once

 

[_Rick_]

etting lost..

Sometimes that's the best thing that can happen to you

Btw how long is the train ride from milan to paris?

around 7:30, between 150-113 euro p.p. if you order a ticket for tomorrow, probably cheaper if you order for August in advance (I see 35 euro, 45euro first class, on sncf.com, unless you want to travel on a friday)

Two direct trains in the morning, one in the afternoon (arrive in Paris at 11:20). That's the one I recommend, as you can take in the Alpes during sunset, where the train goes slowly, after having spent almost a day's worth of exploring in Milan, and then nap on the final "dark" leg after Lyon. Only risk is getting delayed and missing the last Metro in Paris, if you don't have a Hotel close by Gare de Lyon. Taxi will still be cheaper than from the airport.

The reason I advise you to skip Venice, is because I believe a good vacation needs a focus. And spending one day in Venice will probably mess that focus up. I haven't been there personally, but I do hear quite often, that it's a bit overrated. And where the bigger cities up north can somehow buffer the tourist onslaught, I fear in Venice you will be finding more tourists than locals.

 

[xanis]

I went to Italy in the summer of '11 and went to a bunch of different places. As far as small towns go, I stayed with some relatives and they took us on a day trip to Siena, which was very nice. Assisi is also really nice, but it's about 2h 45m from Bologna. Might be too much for a day trip, but that's up to you.

In Rome, definitely do the Vatican. I'm not religious at all, but it was pretty incredible. I also recommend the catacomb tours (I think I did this one). Lots of cool history, plus it's all underground so you'll get a little break from the heat of the day.

I also second Rick's advice to skip Venice. It was definitely a neat place, but I would have preferred to spend those two nights in Milan or something.

Florence: See the Duomo and climb to the top. It's pretty touristy, but it's awesome to see nonetheless. The view from the top of the Duomo is pretty incredible.

 

[rsutoratosu]

France - I agree on the bakery, i did a 1 day trip from london, walk around, just various bakery, was nice. Fresh sandwich thin sandwiches, not like the massive 4" high sandwich like us

 

[GTaudiophile]

Paris: Stay in the Latin Quarter near the Rue Mouffetard.

What is your hotel budget?

 

[dbk]

Apparently convenants have really housing but also with a curfew.

 

[GTaudiophile]

BTW, August is the worst time of year in terms of heat and tourists for what you're planning to do.

I can't comment on Rome/Florence.

I have been to Modena, Milano, Venice, Cinque Terre, and Bellagio on Lake Como.

If you want to show her a romantic time, I would skip the touristy crap and stick to Cinque Terre and Lake Como in the north.

If you pass through Modena, be sure to visit the Ferrari museum, etc.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I just got back from 10 days in France about a week ago and had been there multiple times before, and I've been to Italy twice before. As a matter-of-fact, our honeymoon was 6 days in Paris and 6 days in Italy a few years ago. I don't have a lot of time to write comments, but I'll write a few that jump to mind:

1. 3 days is not nearly enough time in Paris unless you've been there before and have a very limited agenda of what you want to see (that isn't clear from your post).
2. If your intent is to see lots of museums in Rome and Paris, buy a museum pass in each city. It will save you a ton of time and allow you to skip insane tickets lines. Pro tip: If you go to the Louvre and have a museum pass, there is a side entrance off of Rivoli (sp?) street that no one seems to know about and you can literally walk right in.
3. 2-3 days in Rome is enough to see the Vatican and the Forum if those interest you, with enough time to relax and maybe see the Pantheon, Trevi fountain, etc.
4. August is a terrible month to go, as others have stated. The best time to go to Europe in my experience is late fall; as I said, we just got back from France and it was already insane with crowds.

Honestly, my advice would be to skip Paris unless you have a very specific list of things you want to see. You could add those 3 days to your Italy trip and have a more enjoyable vacation.

 

[z0mb13]

Paris: Stay in the Latin Quarter near the Rue Mouffetard.

What is your hotel budget?

Hotel budget want to keep below 150 euros if possible.. lol is that possible in Paris?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Hotel budget want to keep below 150 euros if possible.. lol is that possible in Paris?

It will be tough. 200 euros is a better target. You should be able to find things around 180 euros. Londres Y New York is a decent hotel with sizable rooms, free wi-fi, and located across from the train station. Our usual hotel is Hotel La Bourdonnais in the 7th arrondisement, nor far from the Eiffel Tower. Rooms are decent (but small) and they have free wi-fi, but I had tons of problems with it.

 

[z0mb13]

I can only travel in August because its a long holiday for everyone here.. so dont really have an option on the timing..

After further reading I think we will skip venice and possibly add Milan or some small cities in the area

Is bologna worth staying? or is it better to go to the small cities in the Tuscany region from Florence?

Sorry can't skip Paris because the wife never been there.. and on the last day is my wife's bday so I want to treat her to a nice dinner in Paris

 

[z0mb13]

It will be tough. 200 euros is a better target. You should be able to find things around 180 euros.

hmm ok we might stretch our budget a bit in Paris

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Sorry can't skip Paris because the wife never been there.. and on the last day is my wife's bday so I want to treat her to a nice dinner in Paris

What do you want to see in Paris? You're not going to see much in 3 days in Paris. You can maybe spend an entire day at the Louvre (I'd recommend spending two half days there, hence another benefit of the museum pass) and still not see everything. There's the Orsay museum, Rodin museum, Cluny museum, and many more. If you want to go up the Eiffel Tower, reserve your slot online to avoid lines. If you want to see Versailles, that will take most of an entire day too.

 

[z0mb13]

What do you want to see in Paris? You're not going to see much in 3 days in Paris. You can maybe spend an entire day at the Louvre (I'd recommend spending two half days there, hence another benefit of the museum pass) and still not see everything. There's the Orsay museum, Rodin museum, Cluny museum, and many more. If you want to go up the Eiffel Tower, reserve your slot online to avoid lines. If you want to see Versailles, that will take most of an entire day too.

I think we will spend one day at the Louvre, and the rest we just randomly choose places (any rec?), watch a cabaret show (do they still have the Lido show? whats a good one nowadays) or just have coffee in the afternoon to spend time.. Finally we plan to have a nice dinner to end our trip at a michelin (one or two stars) restaurant.. any rec?

I know we can easily do 1 whole week in Paris but Europe is 18 hour flight from where we live and we already narrowed down the itinerary to two countries (well one country plus Paris). People from our country take multi country whirlwind tour packages that takes them to 5 countries in 15 days (yes im serious). We are trying to avoid this by only going Italy and Paris...

 

[Scarpozzi]

I did a tour as a chaperone for a school group once. There were 7 of us chaperones for one student!

The tour we did was pretty good...but I deviated from the tour because Rome wasn't on the list. We flew into Milan, hit Verona (Juliet's Balcony) on the way to Venice...stayed there the first night....spent the next day in Venice and hit the road to Florence. Spent a day in Florence...went to Rome and back the next day via train...left Florence for a stop in Pisa.....then drove on to Nice. Toured Nice for a day, then checked out Monaco. Jumped on a fast train from Nice to Paris....stayed in Paris 2 nights and flew back to the states. It was a fun trip.

Edit: Best part about doing a tour like that is not having to worry so much about transportation or accommodations. Some hotels weren't as nice as others, but it was definitely cheaper than trying to book separately. The tour chartered a bus and most transportation within the country was via bus... Some meals were included in the trip and the price wasn't too bad because everyone got in on a group rate. I'm tempted to chaperone another trip one day to Germany/Austria and the Alps.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I think we will spend one day at the Louvre, and the rest we just randomly choose places (any rec?), watch a cabaret show (do they still have the Lido show? whats a good one nowadays) or just have coffee in the afternoon to spend time.. Finally we plan to have a nice dinner to end our trip at a michelin (one or two stars) restaurant.. any rec?

I love the Louvre, but please be advised that there is no way that you will see the entire Louvre in 1 day so I'd research ahead of time so you're sure you can see the things you really want to see. I've taken 4 half-day trips to the Louvre and still haven't seen it all because I focus on just the things I want to see.

Regardless of where you go, the tickets lines will be insane. Consider a 2 day museum pass and go to the Louvre and maybe other museums such as the Orsay or Rodin museum. As I previously mentioned, there is a side entrance to the Louvre and if you have a museum pass, you can literally walk right in, go through security, and be inside the museum within a 5 or 10 minutes rather than waiting in a ticket/security line for an hour or two.

If you want to see a royal palace, Versailles is a 20 minute train ride outside of Paris and the museum pass works there too (but not for the gardens; that's an additional 8.50 euro IIRC).

Notre Dame is a cool place to see and won't take you long. If you like medieval stuff, the Cluny museum can be interesting and won't take long either. Consider using the subway and bus system to get around, as it is easy to use and convenient. You can buy tickets at the station or buy 10-packs at Tabac stores (the 10-packs are called carnets).

I know we can easily do 1 whole week in Paris but Europe is 18 hour flight from where we live and we already narrowed down the itinerary to two countries (well one country plus Paris). People from our country take multi country whirlwind tour packages that takes them to 5 countries in 15 days (yes im serious). We are trying to avoid this by only going Italy and Paris...

Yes but I think you're selling Paris short and would add more time there. When we went on our honeymoon in 2009, I think we were there 6 days total and couldn't fit everything in. This time, we accomplished all our goals in Paris and then spent a few days in Normandy. Normandy is unbelievably beautiful and if I go back to France, I think I will spend more time there.

 

[BurnItDwn]

I have never been to Europe, however, your itinerary sounds quite fun and exciting! I would love a trip to explore like that.

 

[AreaCode707]

The art in Florence is incredible but all in all it was one of my least favorite places in our Italy trip. We really liked the Tuscan hill country and small towns - San Gimignano was incredible, Lucca was pretty sweet. Honestly, one of my chief recommendations is to find an agriturismo that does special lunch tours and book yourself a nice long lunch visit. The food will be incredible and the ambiance is unbeatable. We visited the balsamico producers outside of Parma on one such visit and it was fabulous. Also visited the prosciutto makers and that was kinda wild.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

FIRST OF ALL WATCH FOR 'PIC-POCKETS'

If you want to see undisturbed WWII bombings in France go see Pointe Du Hoc. It's amazing. Then there is the Cemetery - worth the time.

Stop at Giverny and see the Claude Monets Gardens :thumbsup:

Honfleur is friggin beautiful :thumbsup:

Bayeux is another worth while stop :thumbsup:

Florence is beautiful. Try the Pistachio Gelato when there = amazing! Take pictures by the river. See the Statue of David.

If you have a Rick Stevens book, follow it

 

[zinfamous]

Just hang out in Tuscany, focusing on Florence, and be done with it.

not much to see in Bologna, in all honesty.


....sure, it's tough to pass up on Rome and so I would recommend finding the time for it but imo, Florence is just jam-packed with all of the good art and history--well, Renaissance history. Rome is fascinating for ancient history, but there isn't that much to "see" there.

I'd go Venice over Rome.

setting up base in Florence and wandering out Tuscany is the best bang-for-buck, imo. Sienna, San Gimingano, even Assisi nearby. Lots or really nice Roman ruins--colloseums, even, to see in that area as well.