@interchange post: 40306892, member: 1296
i: I actually don't agree with myself on this one. After I wrote each of my responses here, it gave me something of an internal panic to review my own behavior with actively considering the question. And the results are mixed.
But I stopped judging myself pretty quickly. What I stated turned out to be an expression of a moral ideal. The way I see it at least,
moralism is one way to defend against psychic conflict, and it's often a limiting one which pushes to categorize people as either good or bad. And it's a particularly limiting when you fear your own amorality.
So I'll restate my observation about the question. I think it's fundamental that, when someone judges another, they face a conflict in judging themselves in order to justify their judgment of another. When the person they are judging is different in a way they are unable to mentalize, how can they be certain they judge themselves fairly?
M: One of the elements of your original post that inspired me to call it intriguing was that what you were presenting was, as I saw it, a exactly as you say, moral aphorism or statement, again, in my opinion, on a rather lofty plain, one that could pay great dividends if sincerely aspired to. But it is the very sort of question the answer to which I believe those in denial about their own judgmental temperament might likely unconsciously overlook.
i: I'd say now it's better to state that the
conflict is fundamental. Everyone deep down fears they are nothing -- that they are hypocrites ready to be exposed and rendered worthless. That is the truth regardless of whether people in general are anywhere close to this awareness. But since the conflict is there, it must be overcome in some way in order to contain that fear from escaping and overwhelming them.
M: I think the common wisdom is that this kind of madness is to be feared and avoided like the plague, that it would lead to institutionalization or worse. I also believe that much of psychiatry is directed to helping people cope with their mental illness rather than go through the kind of cathartic episodes that could cure them. My own belief is that everything we fear has already happened and all the damage is done so it is better to relive the experience and let it all out rather than become better able to keep it all bottled up.
i: I will say that, as a person moves closer to awareness of such a conflict in their own mental processes, that opens the door to discover more about the self and the other, which might lead to results someone judges as "good".
M: I would so judge.
i: I will comment here that one of the fundamental principles I have applied to my study of how the mind works -- something I have never explicitly been taught to do but have seen expressions of similar conclusions -- is that, while people's minds work in ways which are irrational, if the way in which people's minds are working is ubiquitous, then the problem is that you have simply failed to make sense of it.
M: If I am getting what you are saying and perhaps I am not, but if I am than I would say that the failure to make sense of it and its universality is that we are unconsciously motivated not to examine the issue. It is easier to see that people with profoundly damaged or very poor self image, people very down on themselves exhibit unconscious self destructive tendencies. It is much more difficult to see it in one's self particularly if one is fairly well adjusted. But I believe that it is the universality of self hate and the unconscious desire not to remember that explains why denial is pretty universal. The other reason it is universal I think is that we had to die psychically as children in order to survive physically. The weight of endless resistance to the demands of conformity would have forced greater and greater torment. We are all broken children.
i: To that end, if a great number of people facing the same conflict choose to find ways to avoid awareness of that conflict altogether, then it must be that reasoning exists why doing so is "good".
M: I wouldn't say good. I would say to be expected. We live and breathe in a world of psychological darkness, unaware that the things we fear have already happened and the madness we fear will grip us already has. I suppose if everyone were to be forced awake up in a single instant there would be untold millions of worldwide deaths. The world on a bad trip on LSD.
i: So from following this exchange with you, I am concluding that my responses signaled to you awareness of this conflict within you, and you have some will to explore the ways you and others approach it. Perhaps you are now a tiny bit more free than you were previously.
M: To be sure one of the central questions of my psychic life revolves around the nature of certainty. I find the notion that I am a nobody who knows nothing very important even if it makes me know one more thing than all those who do think they know things. It's trying to live it where there's slips between cup and lip. It helps that I find my mind and my conscious awareness to be rather hilarious. How can you be human and avoid total embarrassment?
i: I will say that something else I have observed which I'm not sure anyone has actually formally taught me is that, when the conditions of someone's life and interactions with others make sense to them, they have a tendency to come to the conclusion that this is the way things are, have always been, and always will be. It's my personal hypothesis that the lack of people incorporating awareness of this conflict at this moment in history is not a good depiction of how it has always been, nor is it a good depiction of who the people who are acting that way are. It is merely the most functional way their minds have determined that they should be for the circumstances of now.
M: Mulla Nasruden ran to his neighbor's house and him that his bull and broken the fence between them and gored the Mulla's cow, to which the neighbor replied is was an act of God and no compensation could be given. To that the Mulla replied, Yes yes, of course, but I misspoke. It was my bull that broke the fence and gored your cow, to which the neighbor replied, "Now that is a completely different matter."