Plant Based Diets, better health?

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,509
19,052
146

I think the below is a good summary. I don't think I can give up eggs and chicken, need the protein, but even changing your diet a couple days a week can show results.

“This research shows, in general, that a plant-based diet can be beneficial, and taking small steps in that direction can make a difference,” said Matthew Landry, one of the review’s authors and an assistant professor of population health and disease prevention at the University of California, Irvine.

“You don’t have to go completely vegan to see some of these benefits,” he added. “Even reducing a day or two per week of animal-based consumption can have benefits over time.”

However, Dr. Walter Willett, a professor of epidemiology and nutrition at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, pointed out that not everyone who follows a plant-based diet eats the same foods, so levels of healthiness still vary.

“A vegetarian diet could be based primarily on refined starches and sugar, which we see to be the worst dietary pattern,” Willett, who was not involved in the new research, said in an email.

A healthy plant-based diet, he said, should consist mostly of whole grains, fruits, vegetables, nuts, soy, beans and non-hydrogenated plant oils.
 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,940
2,730
136
Cutting out fried and baked foods regardless of "source" is potentially the best first step. Going vegetarian or vegan incidentally does that to a large degree because many people best enjoy meat that is fried or grilled, then lathered with sugar or starches.
I don't think they've gotten rid of the "0.5 g or less is 0" rule for trans fats.

The real issue is that people are "white powder addicts" and said white powders of flour or sugar are so addictively edible that people eat primary those products at the expense of other foods, thus creating nutritional deficiencies if the foods are not fortified like cereal or they don't take a multivitamin.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,753
9,704
136
It depends what your diet is like to start with. I was pretty shocked when I saw the diets of some people. A lot of people just don't eat fresh vegetables, they eat red meat with every meal and they eat a lot of processed food. If you eat like that then anything is going to be an improvement.
You can have a really shit vegan diet though.
Cook your own stuff from things that you have to wash and peel. Eat meat a few times a week.
 

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
7,219
7,742
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It depends what your diet is like to start with. I was pretty shocked when I saw the diets of some people. A lot of people just don't eat fresh vegetables, they eat red meat with every meal and they eat a lot of processed food. If you eat like that then anything is going to be an improvement.
You can have a really shit vegan diet though.
Cook your own stuff from things that you have to wash and peel. Eat meat a few times a week.

- Yeah, ofc plant based is better if you look at what a lot of people actually eat (starches, fried food, processed crap).

Plant based is also not great if you're replacing the meat with starches, fried food, processed crap.

My MO has always been the same, 1/2 plate of veggies (typically baked, ideally with the protein to pick up the drippings), 1/4 protein (typically chicken or fish, preferably baked), and 1/4 starch (brown/wild rice, rustic bread, buckwheat noodles).

Tends to do me ok from a general health and bloodwork perspective.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,753
9,704
136
My MO has always been the same, 1/2 plate of veggies (typically baked, ideally with the protein to pick up the drippings), 1/4 protein (typically chicken or fish, preferably baked), and 1/4 starch (brown/wild rice, rustic bread, buckwheat noodles).

Tends to do me ok from a general health and bloodwork perspective.
That sounds pretty healthy! Particularly as you are starting with "food with the farm on" as my mum calls it! (Whole vegetables, cuts of meat, unprocessed grains...)
It's just that so many people are horrified that not every meal needs meat with it.
 
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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
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The Mediterranean diet always ranks highly for a healthy lifestyle - https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-...ting/in-depth/mediterranean-diet/art-20047801

I can sense a disturbance in the force. As if millions of spambots are going to crawl this thread all at once.

It is cool that the article talks about even a day or 2 without animal products a week helps. As mentioned, most people's diets are garbage. Any improvement in it will yield positive results over time.

I am so jaded that when I see an article like that, I look for "sponsored by Bird's Eye"
 

balloonshark

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2008
6,681
3,182
136
It's not only good for your health. It's good for the health of the planet. I switched to a plant based diet for both reasons.

I'm over 50 and the doc just said my blood tests were fine. The test before that my sodium was borderline low. How many people on a SAD diet can say the same thing?

The animals we eat consume veggies, so why not occasionally cut out the middle man (meat) that can cause disease?
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,139
6,029
126
Cutting out fried and baked foods regardless of "source" is potentially the best first step.
Wait what?

What is wrong with baked food lol?

I eat baked chicken like 2-3 times a week and baked salmon once a week, and I'm currently cutting and have lost 12lbs in the past 3 months.
 
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Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,940
2,730
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Wait what?

What is wrong with baked food lol?

I eat baked chicken like 2-3 times a week and baked salmon once a week, and I'm currently cutting and have lost 12lbs in the past 3 months.
Not everything related to health is related to weight. In fact, "science" can and should have gotten a move on isolating the variables that influence weight and health, but because of conflict of interest and intellectual mistraining(those who come out of schooling misapply techniques used to defend settled facts in a manner to stifle the investigative process), it has not and will not for decades, if it can get there before future social strife manifests itself.

Indeed, I would feel it almost absurd that some body parts would be majorly affected by weight, like the colon. For the colon, the primary issue would be the chemicals in direct contact with the tissues itself.

Compounds like acrylamide, Heterocyclic amnies, and Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons are present in high temp cooked foods. They are chemicals that cause damage without necessarily affecting weight.

It may also be that acrylamide is itself a separately addictive compound from the starches and sugar. I've lapsed for the past month and have been devouring a lot of bread and restaurant food, and I notice that I do not crave fruit or even cold starches the same way that I crave fried foods.

I personally accidentally stumbled on a "slow" way to cook ground meats. I now prefer using a small saucepan and at least initially, start cooking it on low until enough liquid is liberate from the ground meat. Then I either let it continue simmering on low or if I want it done fast, I crank up the heat and essentially "boil" the meat. I also wind up with a "soup". Grass fed beef or bison have a flavor with conventional beef tastes boring.

Nathan Pritikin's who diet is difficult likely mostly errorneous, nevertheless did result in one positive outcome regarding the arteries(but not leukemia), and he avoided fried foods(along with a whole host of others).

My health is primarily avoiding further dental hell and avoiding the misery of dealing with colon cancer in the future. Weight is not a concern because I'd be functionally dead if I ate at the level of even not fat American men.
 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,940
2,730
136
There is nothing wrong with "Starches". That sounds like carb phobia.
Yeah, there's something wrong with "starches".
Before moving forward, "carb" has numerous definitions. One relates to the class of chemicals themselves. Then there are foods that contain them that get called "carbs". And yet another definition is a subset of the chemicals that are digestible(like sugar, fructose, glucose, galactose, etc).

If weight is the issue, carbs are an enemy, because it expands appetite and inhibits fat metabolism. Every meal and snack results in 2 hours of elevated insulin levels, and the resulting inhibition of fat metabolism. So 3 meals, and intermittent snacks, that's a lot of time for elevated insulin levels.
 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,940
2,730
136
- Fair, I guess what I was thinking of falls under processed crap.
Processing/Processed is a term used by the experts because
1. Many lay individuals did not take a single course in organic chemistry and do not think in terms of "specific chemicals do specific things".
2. The typical human process information on feelings and emotions. Processed evokes imagery of factories, restaurants, and corporate coldness.
But guess what, most of the stuff in a Pop-Tart is sugar and glucose. The same things are in home baked white flour or white bread, numerous sauces, and other foods.

It's not actually a very clear term and creates a distracting false dichotomy based on the "warm and fuzzies" of cold companies versus "warm baking" or "stovetop cooking".
A McDonald's French fry is potatoes, an unhealthy fat, and a freezing technique to make it special. Yeah, there's also THBQ in traces, but the it's still mostly a potato.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
97,308
16,389
126
So sugar and flour have been excommunicated from plant based label?
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,139
6,029
126
Compounds like acrylamide, Heterocyclic amnies, and Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons are present in high temp cooked foods. They are chemicals that cause damage without necessarily affecting weight.
I just googled this and literally just see 1 thing (everything basically points to the same thing in regards to this) and the only thing it says is that it may increase cancer risk, and the only studies they have done have only shown this to be true in animals, and that there has been no link to it being a risk for humans.


I am not going to worry about this at all and think it's silly to worry that cooking food at high temperature is bad for humans. Humans have been doing this since the dawn of time with fire to cook meat. Animals on the other hand have always ate raw food so cooked food is not normal in their diet.
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,349
5,479
136
Yeah, there's something wrong with "starches".
Before moving forward, "carb" has numerous definitions. One relates to the class of chemicals themselves. Then there are foods that contain them that get called "carbs". And yet another definition is a subset of the chemicals that are digestible(like sugar, fructose, glucose, galactose, etc).

If weight is the issue, carbs are an enemy, because it expands appetite and inhibits fat metabolism. Every meal and snack results in 2 hours of elevated insulin levels, and the resulting inhibition of fat metabolism. So 3 meals, and intermittent snacks, that's a lot of time for elevated insulin levels.

Sure if you get your "carbs" from donuts, wonder bread, and soda they are a problem.

But if they are from whole plant foods like beans, oats, vegetables, they are not a problem.

The problem with the SAD (Standard American Diet) is that "carbs" come mostly from the former, not the latter.
 
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Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,349
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So sugar and flour have been excommunicated from plant based label?

"Plant Based" is often shorthand for "Whole Food Plant Based" where sugar and refined flour would be out.

Which is the direction many are moving today (myself included).
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,349
5,479
136

Note that I said "often" , not "always".

Corporations marketing their products will have the loosest definition. For example, packaged food labeled as "Plant Based" often include dairy. Not sure how Dairy is Plant Based.

This is what WFPB is all about:


 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,940
2,730
136
Sure if you get your "carbs" from donuts, wonder bread, and soda they are a problem.

But if they are from whole plant foods like beans, oats, vegetables, they are not a problem.

The problem with the SAD (Standard American Diet) is that "carbs" come mostly from the former, not the latter.
The carbs themselves remain a potential threat, especially to the already ill. It's just that vegetables have a food matrix with fiber and carbs such that it's difficult to consume much of them to begin with.

Depending on the body, beans and oats can still be a problem, although instant direct observation through a glucose monitor to conclusively see if the effects are materially significant on a particular individual. It is possible to trigger a binge eating of beans or oats.

The straining used to justify "better carbs" boils down to two general operations:
1. the uptake is slower and thus the spike is less severe compared to the "baseline diet".
2. Other vital nutrients, which also happens to be not consumed in the baseline SAD diet, are present in the foods, i.e minerals that are not fortified in processed foods

Then based on one or both of these facts, and the use the word's ambiguity in definitions, it is then argued, the "carbs" present are chemically different or somehow operate differently on the basis of one or both of these facts.

In reality, the actual sensible argument is that the benefits from the chemicals like zinc, magnesium, etc outweigh the amount of and load of carbohydrates within the beans or similar foods.

But despite trying to sanitize carbs through said sophistry, instructions to eat more veggies, beans, or fiber still is in pursuit of one goal: reducing consumption glucose, fructose, and galactose, which are carbohydrates(in the chemical sense of the word). Thus, there is a contradiction between the messaging(the "right" carbs are harmless, holy, sacred) and actions taken(carb consumption is brought down).

Carb-kissing is government and business-developed behavioral response to enrich the food industry. Vegans contribute to the sustained protection of all carbohydrate-containing foods because they glorify it no different than the food industry glorifying the white powder products or sugar laden snack bars as healthy.
 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,940
2,730
136
I just googled this and literally just see 1 thing (everything basically points to the same thing in regards to this) and the only thing it says is that it may increase cancer risk, and the only studies they have done have only shown this to be true in animals, and that there has been no link to it being a risk for humans.


I am not going to worry about this at all and think it's silly to worry that cooking food at high temperature is bad for humans. Humans have been doing this since the dawn of time with fire to cook meat. Animals on the other hand have always ate raw food so cooked food is not normal in their diet.
Cooking food at high temps is better suited for survival. Better suited is not the same as harmless. Just that living organisms, like bacteria and parasites, are a much more dangerous threat than chemicals that might cause problems years down the line.


If we want to go on a tangent about 'natural instinct' consumption in certain animals, "carnivores" have a tendency to go after the nutritionally comprehensive organ meats first, like the liver, heart, kidneys, and spleen.
The multivitamin has replaced the liver as the "food" of choice for covering all nutrient bases, and it is how cereal is even partially "healthy" at all. They just fortify cereal with various powders or straight up raw iron. Non-western societies still process and value organ meats in dishes, indicating an "understanding", even if not scientific, of their value in nutrition.
 

mindless1

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
8,412
1,586
126
Thank goodness this topic exists because there is nowhere else to find dietary information.
 
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