It doesn't even take place in the US. The United States is mentioned a whole 3 times throughout the film and has nothing to do with the story.
What movie did you watch?
Originally posted by: Ichinisan
Originally posted by: Aquaman
eh......... I thought the bad guys where "Fascist"? Was not the premise of the story ..... what if the Fascists won WWII and the story is set in a fascist future.
Cheers,
Aquaman
This movie has retooled the story. It has nothing to do with WWII. It clearly points the finger at our current US administration as the cause of this new oppressive government.
Originally posted by: Ichinisan
Originally posted by: Ephemeral
There is this crazy concept in life called, "entertainment," and believe it or not...some people actually know how to simply enjoy it.
It's not an enjoyable movie by any standard. There may be some elements of the movie to like (cinematography, acting, etc). If someone likes the movie itself, that person is probably not very bright. (or perhaps, a successfully brainwashed tool)
Originally posted by: Ichinisan
Originally posted by: Xafgoat
Christianity is insanity. It even sort of rhymes.
I really do consider anyone religious more than a little crazy.
I tried to not directly insult anyone or any group (except the directors...)
Originally posted by: Eeezee
Originally posted by: Ichinisan
Originally posted by: Aquaman
eh......... I thought the bad guys where "Fascist"? Was not the premise of the story ..... what if the Fascists won WWII and the story is set in a fascist future.
Cheers,
Aquaman
This movie has retooled the story. It has nothing to do with WWII. It clearly points the finger at our current US administration as the cause of this new oppressive government.
It doesn't even take place in the US. The United States is mentioned a whole 3 times throughout the film and has nothing to do with the story.
What movie did you watch?
Originally posted by: Ephemeral
Originally posted by: Vic
Fascism is a leftist movement. A collectivist movement by definition.Originally posted by: UNCjigga
Again, you need to read up on fascism. Completely fictional? Read up on Germany's National Socialist Worker's Party circa 1933-1945.
All mass entertainment is propaganda these days. It's the pinnacle of product placement.Originally posted by: Ephemeral
There is this crazy concept in life called, "entertainment," and believe it or not...some people actually know how to simply enjoy it.
It sounds to me (from reading reviews, etc.) that someone stole the basic plot from Heinlein's Revolt in 2100 and ran with it.
And there are people who will choose to see or to not see this film based on many factors, not just political affiliation, or personal viewpoints on how mass media is presented to an audience. If you want to discredit a film based on its, "propaganda," that is one thing, you didn?t enjoy the film and that is your reason why...but to state that one should not find entertainment in it, or is even inferior in some aspect for doing so, is quite thick-headed. It would have been better for the OP to pre-face his argument with, "I was disappointed by V for Vendetta."
How can I insult a group of people that does not exist (intelligent people who found the movie entertaining)?Originally posted by: Eeezee
Originally posted by: Ichinisan
Originally posted by: Ephemeral
There is this crazy concept in life called, "entertainment," and believe it or not...some people actually know how to simply enjoy it.
It's not an enjoyable movie by any standard. There may be some elements of the movie to like (cinematography, acting, etc). If someone likes the movie itself, that person is probably not very bright. (or perhaps, a successfully brainwashed tool)
Followed by
Originally posted by: Ichinisan
Originally posted by: Xafgoat
Christianity is insanity. It even sort of rhymes.
I really do consider anyone religious more than a little crazy.
I tried to not directly insult anyone or any group (except the directors...)
You, sir, are a liar.
This post does discuss fascist and liberal ideals, but there is no discussion of a political nature in this original post. I don't mind if a moderator moves the thread if it somehow becomes political or if my agreeable opinion is not welcome.
There are no spoilers in this post.
I just watched an early screening of the Wachowski Brothers' latest film: V for Vendetta
Before I get started, I'll let you know that I've always considered myself to be a "tolerant fascist." I won't try to hide or pretend that I didn't have an some opinion before seeing the movie. Please don't demonstrate intolerance by reading this post with pre-conceived bias. I just want to let people know what to expect so that they can resist the negative polarizing effect or avoid watching the movie altogether.
I know that this is a terrible way to start, but my ignorant opinion is that I've never seen such a retarded piece of brainwashing garbage as this. While the cinematography is excellent, any piece of dramatic or thematic material was drawn from other works and used completely out of context in such a way that the story makes no sense to anyone who actually looks for meaning or reason. Like it's title, the directors had a clear agenda: They want to polarize the country. The Wachowski brothers don't want there to be a such thing as a "tolerant fascist." They would have you believe that:
-fascists don't like homosexuals.
The Wachowski's would have you believe that, in fact, fascists hate homosexuals. They hate them enough to have them rounded up, tortured, and executed. There is no such thing as a fascist that is OK with homosexuality or one who does not care what other people do. There is most certainly no such thing as a homosexual who believes in a single fascist ideal, or a fascist homosexual for that matter.
If I were homosexual, I would be offended. As a heterosexual, tolerant, fascist; I do not feel that another person's sexuality affects me in any way. What possible reason could I have to hate homosexuals? You know what I actually do hate? Perversion. Perversion is completely different from homosexuality.
-Religious fascists are raging perverts.
In the movie, religious leaders are depicted as the most horrific perverts of all...yet they are so opposed to homosexuality that they are driven to mass murder?! The concept of "morality" as we know it is defined by beliefs. Morality is not in our genes. True religious leaders use their own lives and discipline as an examples of self control, forgiveness, and willingness to teach all who will listen. Is it too much to ask that religious leaders be depicted as those who actually believe in their convictions?
A well-played character in the movie states that he invited Natalie Portman's character into his home only to disguise the fact that he was homosexual. The directors would have you believe that the same intolerant religious fascists who would murder homosexuals don't care at all when a man has sex out of wedlock with a woman? They're forgetting that fascist religions don't condone premarital sex. The premarital-sex = sin belief is part of the very reason why homosexuality is considered to be a sin in these religions. fascist religions also teach that sinners should be loved and converted; not executed. Did Jesus set an example by executing "sinners?" No. It is taught that he loved them, healed them, and forgave their sins. The key word is "love". To say that Christianity teaches "tolerance" is a grievous understatement. After seeing the way religious leaders are depicted in this movie and nearly all liberal depictions in Hollywood, I have to ask: Who is being intolerant?
-Terrorism is OK for overthrowing oppressive (read: "fascist") governments.
The movie spells it out clearly. There is no symbolism here. Fictional news reports show pie charts, graphs, and video clips detailing the rise of the fascist party; which is somehow more oppressive and evil than the most one-dimensional villains in childrens' stories.
I completely agree with a statement from the main character in the movie. He says that "People should not be afraid of their government; Their government should be afraid of them." Actual fascism tries to protect the safeguards that ward off complete totalitarianism and oppressive governments like dictatorships. Many people don't understand the reason why the US Bill of Rights protects Americans' right to bear arms. It becomes obvious that people don't understand when we hear gun-control activists reasoning that assault weapons are useless for hunting and should therefore be banned. In their rhetoric, fascists are labelled as evil murderers for allowing the ban to expire. Barring purely offensive weapons including chemical, biological, nuclear, and ballistic weapons (like missiles), and most explosives; there should never be any kind of restriction on what you can use to defend yourself or protect your rights from being violated. Would you be able to use a pistol to protect yourself against an oppressive government with enforcers carrying automatic weapons? What if you had to use your bare hands with your fingernails removed? fascism has always promoted the ideal of less government interference in our personal lives.
-fascists are the enemies of art.
I for one believe that the most primal function of art is to make something that is pleasurable to behold. The Wachowski brothers seem to like art that is revolting, perverted, hateful, or inciteful. Anyone who expresses distaste for something that is meant to cause disgust is an enemy of free expression? The inflammatory Pi-- Christ is actually an example of hate speech. Hate speech is protected by another basic American right: Freedom of Speech. fascists defend free speech because they enjoy freedom, just like everyone else. Free speech is an important tool to help prevent government corruption. When fascists denounce hate speech like this, they are portrayed as "intolerant." The intended purpose of Pi-- Christ was to disgust and incite anger. It's certainly not a pleasure to behold and you're not supposed to enjoy it. Should we all pretend to like Pi-- Christ and ostracize those who speak against it?
-fascism equates to pure evil.
Again: Who is intolerant here? This movie's ultimate purpose is to polarize the world. I will not be a gullible fool to fancy cinematography, fake drama, and pseudo-intellectualism. Also, I refuse to become an ignorant, stubborn, intolerant, liberal-hating, gay-bashing, racist, redneck. Judging by the reaction from some in the theater, some viewers were intelligent enough to realize this and resisted the impulse to become hyper-liberal activists; voicing disbelief during the film and disapproval as the credits began to roll. I felt a sense of hope. However, I don't know that the other viewers have not succumbed to the polarizing effect of the film.
We can't expose the flaws of this movie by insulting liberals and liberalism. In fact, there is nothing wrong with true liberalism. Criticizing "art" like this appears as intolerance to many. It's best to show disapproval by simply not watching the film.
I know there are probably a lot of typographical errors here, but it's late and I'll use the "edit" button later.
Expect lots of edits as your responses may reveal unintentional statements that need correction...I only skimmed over this once before submitting.
Originally posted by: Ichinisan
How can I insult a group of people that does not exist (intelligent people who found the movie entertaining)?Originally posted by: Eeezee
Originally posted by: Ichinisan
Originally posted by: Ephemeral
There is this crazy concept in life called, "entertainment," and believe it or not...some people actually know how to simply enjoy it.
It's not an enjoyable movie by any standard. There may be some elements of the movie to like (cinematography, acting, etc). If someone likes the movie itself, that person is probably not very bright. (or perhaps, a successfully brainwashed tool)
Followed by
Originally posted by: Ichinisan
Originally posted by: Xafgoat
Christianity is insanity. It even sort of rhymes.
I really do consider anyone religious more than a little crazy.
I tried to not directly insult anyone or any group (except the directors...)
You, sir, are a liar.
You're referring to the "not very bright" people? "Slow" people watch movies too!
"Stupid" is an insult and also not what I was going for.
[edit]
Didn't mean to double-post...
[/edit]
Originally posted by: Ichinisan
Originally posted by: Ephemeral
And there are people who will choose to see or to not see this film based on many factors, not just political affiliation, or personal viewpoints on how mass media is presented to an audience. If you want to discredit a film based on its, "propaganda," that is one thing, you didn?t enjoy the film and that is your reason why...but to state that one should not find entertainment in it, or is even inferior in some aspect for doing so, is quite thick-headed. It would have been better for the OP to pre-face his argument with, "I was disappointed by V for Vendetta."
That is exactly what I said. Even if the characters and roles were changed to not demonize or offend particular groups, the entire movie just isn't a coherent or enjoyable story. Just because I took offense to nearly everything in the movie does not mean that the rest of the movie isn't as bad as I described it. When I said that no one should find any valid entertainment from the story; when I said that there was no reason or meaning; I was also saying: "I was disappointed by V for Vendetta"
Originally posted by: Eeezee
The movie was well-done. The main character, V, did not have as much development as I would have liked, but the movie served its purpose very well; entertainment.
Honestly, what about this movie was bad? The effects were great. The story was great (it's difficult to screw up a successful comic book series). The acting was great. The camera work was great. The beginning and ending were excellent (the most important parts to any movie).
You can't really compare the movie to anything going on in politics right now. I'm surprised that a conservative of all people went through the trouble of making such a relation. It's obvious that our government has very little in common with the government in this movie. It's true that our government has some similarities with fascism. You're in absolute ignorance if you're going to waste time denying that. However, claiming that the movie was a bash against the US government because of these few similarities is really just grasping at straws.
If you dislike this movie, then why aren't you being critical of 1984 or the original novels? Yes, I know, you claim that they have drastically altered the original storyline. Did you actually read the original comics? Your outright denial of the similarities is proof that you didn't read the comics at all (or that you weren't paying any attention as you read them).
The movie was based on the comics. Go send angry letters to the authors or something. Telling people to not see this movie because you have a skewed political viewpoint is an unhealthy attitude. This is ATOT, most of us are smart enough to make our own decisions even though this movie really doesn't say anything about American conservatives.
Originally posted by: Ichinisan
Originally posted by: Eeezee
The movie was well-done. The main character, V, did not have as much development as I would have liked, but the movie served its purpose very well; entertainment.
Honestly, what about this movie was bad? The effects were great. The story was great (it's difficult to screw up a successful comic book series). The acting was great. The camera work was great. The beginning and ending were excellent (the most important parts to any movie).
You can't really compare the movie to anything going on in politics right now. I'm surprised that a conservative of all people went through the trouble of making such a relation. It's obvious that our government has very little in common with the government in this movie. It's true that our government has some similarities with fascism. You're in absolute ignorance if you're going to waste time denying that. However, claiming that the movie was a bash against the US government because of these few similarities is really just grasping at straws.
If you dislike this movie, then why aren't you being critical of 1984 or the original novels? Yes, I know, you claim that they have drastically altered the original storyline. Did you actually read the original comics? Your outright denial of the similarities is proof that you didn't read the comics at all (or that you weren't paying any attention as you read them).
The movie was based on the comics. Go send angry letters to the authors or something. Telling people to not see this movie because you have a skewed political viewpoint is an unhealthy attitude. This is ATOT, most of us are smart enough to make our own decisions even though this movie really doesn't say anything about American conservatives.
Did you realize when you posted that people with go watch the movie and their jaw will drop when they see what you have said?
Every moment where a character has an epiphany or develops a conviction, the audience hears dramatic music and doesn't know what the hell is going on. That is absolutely terrible movie-making. The ending of the movie:
I didn't see any reason to believe that the fascist government propaganda system did not adequately defame the terrorist enough to sway public opinion? They attributed viral diseases and explosions to him and the people had no reason to believe otherwise. The viewer is expected to believe that all the people who have been brainwashed into believing that the terrorist is responsible for so many deaths. Then then, the final clichéd scene shows not a single soul that does not support the "terrorist". If the public was so completely supportive, why was it that NONE of the guards and officials had changed their mind? Oh. Their not people. They're evil because they work for the evil "conservative" government.
This movie blatantly said that the US was responsible for the state of their goverment and the rest of the world. If you missed that, you need to watch the movie again. I'm sorry I don't have clips for you, but you'll want to revise your statement the next time you watch the movie or look extremely silly.
Originally posted by: Eeezee
Originally posted by: Ichinisan
Originally posted by: Eeezee
The movie was well-done. The main character, V, did not have as much development as I would have liked, but the movie served its purpose very well; entertainment.
Honestly, what about this movie was bad? The effects were great. The story was great (it's difficult to screw up a successful comic book series). The acting was great. The camera work was great. The beginning and ending were excellent (the most important parts to any movie).
You can't really compare the movie to anything going on in politics right now. I'm surprised that a conservative of all people went through the trouble of making such a relation. It's obvious that our government has very little in common with the government in this movie. It's true that our government has some similarities with fascism. You're in absolute ignorance if you're going to waste time denying that. However, claiming that the movie was a bash against the US government because of these few similarities is really just grasping at straws.
If you dislike this movie, then why aren't you being critical of 1984 or the original novels? Yes, I know, you claim that they have drastically altered the original storyline. Did you actually read the original comics? Your outright denial of the similarities is proof that you didn't read the comics at all (or that you weren't paying any attention as you read them).
The movie was based on the comics. Go send angry letters to the authors or something. Telling people to not see this movie because you have a skewed political viewpoint is an unhealthy attitude. This is ATOT, most of us are smart enough to make our own decisions even though this movie really doesn't say anything about American conservatives.
Did you realize when you posted that people with go watch the movie and their jaw will drop when they see what you have said?
Every moment where a character has an epiphany or develops a conviction, the audience hears dramatic music and doesn't know what the hell is going on. That is absolutely terrible movie-making. The ending of the movie:
I didn't see any reason to believe that the fascist government propaganda system did not adequately defame the terrorist enough to sway public opinion? They attributed viral diseases and explosions to him and the people had no reason to believe otherwise. The viewer is expected to believe that all the people who have been brainwashed into believing that the terrorist is responsible for so many deaths. Then then, the final clichéd scene shows not a single soul that does not support the "terrorist". If the public was so completely supportive, why was it that NONE of the guards and officials had changed their mind? Oh. Their not people. They're evil because they work for the evil "conservative" government.
This movie blatantly said that the US was responsible for the state of their goverment and the rest of the world. If you missed that, you need to watch the movie again. I'm sorry I don't have clips for you, but you'll want to revise your statement the next time you watch the movie or look extremely silly.
That is incorrect. The movie stated that the US was responsible for the state of their government as a result of wars they started around the world. In this fictional universe, the US is not a major superpower like it is today. The movie did not say that the US government was responsible for the state of the rest of the world.
Also, there were maybe 10,000 people in the ending. Do you really believe that every person in London supported the terrorist because you saw a lot of people wearing masks? That's a bad assumption. You also forgot that most of the guards and officials did change their mind in the end. You were obviously so pissed off at these erroneous connections that you really weren't paying much attention to the movie itself.
Since you obviously weren't paying attention, there was dramatic music throughout the entire movie (not just during epiphanies). I saw the movie with many friends, and we knew exactly what was happening. Perhaps you just weren't intelligent enough to understand what was going on. Don't associate everyone in the audience with yourself when you were probably the only person that didn't have a clue.
Edit: Also, you made a fundamental error in your argument. The movie was a work of fiction. The comics were written a long time ago, and the movie was based on these comics. The comics also mention that the US is in a rather sorry state of affairs. You're trying to relate a fictional United States in a fictional future to the government that we have today. Why do you believe that this makes any sense?
Originally posted by: Ichinisan
This movie blatantly said that the US was responsible for the state of their goverment and the rest of the world. If you missed that, you need to watch the movie again. I'm sorry I don't have clips for you, but you'll want to revise your statement the next time you watch the movie or look extremely silly.
They want you to believe that true conservative religious people are taught to hate sinners. It's not true. Hate and murder are the opposite of love and forgiveness. Christians are supposed to use Jesus as their example for how to act.Originally posted by: elbosco
Originally posted by: Ichinisan
This movie blatantly said that the US was responsible for the state of their goverment and the rest of the world. If you missed that, you need to watch the movie again. I'm sorry I don't have clips for you, but you'll want to revise your statement the next time you watch the movie or look extremely silly.
Uh, I'm pretty sure Creedy stated those not of true faith, conviction and conformity were the cause of strife. Hence the concentration camps for religious, racial, and sexual minorites.
Originally posted by: Shadowknight
After reading all of this thread, discussing how this film is neo-conservative-liberal-left-right-nazi-republican-democratic-green party-Independent party-Liberalist-pro/anti-homosexualism, enviromentalist-pro/anti-gun ownership, pro/anti-abortion with socialist leanings, my response is this:
I don't care about politics. At all. In movies, newspapers, tv, or other media. The day I go into politics, I'll care. As a poster on AToT, owner of cats, and overweight guy, I've got better things to get riled up about. Hemerroids for one. Running out of gas on the highway, for another. I just really really don't care.
There. Now THAT was carthetic.
Originally posted by: Ephemeral
Originally posted by: Shadowknight
After reading all of this thread, discussing how this film is neo-conservative-liberal-left-right-nazi-republican-democratic-green party-Independent party-Liberalist-pro/anti-homosexualism, enviromentalist-pro/anti-gun ownership, pro/anti-abortion with socialist leanings, my response is this:
I don't care about politics. At all. In movies, newspapers, tv, or other media. The day I go into politics, I'll care. As a poster on AToT, owner of cats, and overweight guy, I've got better things to get riled up about. Hemerroids for one. Running out of gas on the highway, for another. I just really really don't care.
There. Now THAT was carthetic.
:thumbsup:
Originally posted by: Eeezee
Originally posted by: Ephemeral
Originally posted by: Shadowknight
After reading all of this thread, discussing how this film is neo-conservative-liberal-left-right-nazi-republican-democratic-green party-Independent party-Liberalist-pro/anti-homosexualism, enviromentalist-pro/anti-gun ownership, pro/anti-abortion with socialist leanings, my response is this:
I don't care about politics. At all. In movies, newspapers, tv, or other media. The day I go into politics, I'll care. As a poster on AToT, owner of cats, and overweight guy, I've got better things to get riled up about. Hemerroids for one. Running out of gas on the highway, for another. I just really really don't care.
There. Now THAT was carthetic.
:thumbsup:
QFT. It's a fictional movie, deal with it. It's a lot better than Matrix 2 or 3, that's for sure, yet there are still people who like those movies. You're free to have your opinion, but hating on the people who like the movie is very immature.
Originally posted by: Ichinisan
They want you to believe that true conservative religious people are taught to hate sinners. It's not true. Hate and murder are the opposite of love and forgiveness. Christians are supposed to use Jesus as their example for how to act.Originally posted by: elbosco
Originally posted by: Ichinisan
This movie blatantly said that the US was responsible for the state of their goverment and the rest of the world. If you missed that, you need to watch the movie again. I'm sorry I don't have clips for you, but you'll want to revise your statement the next time you watch the movie or look extremely silly.
Uh, I'm pretty sure Creedy stated those not of true faith, conviction and conformity were the cause of strife. Hence the concentration camps for religious, racial, and sexual minorites.
Originally posted by: Ichinisan
Originally posted by: Eeezee
Originally posted by: Ephemeral
Originally posted by: Shadowknight
After reading all of this thread, discussing how this film is neo-conservative-liberal-left-right-nazi-republican-democratic-green party-Independent party-Liberalist-pro/anti-homosexualism, enviromentalist-pro/anti-gun ownership, pro/anti-abortion with socialist leanings, my response is this:
I don't care about politics. At all. In movies, newspapers, tv, or other media. The day I go into politics, I'll care. As a poster on AToT, owner of cats, and overweight guy, I've got better things to get riled up about. Hemerroids for one. Running out of gas on the highway, for another. I just really really don't care.
There. Now THAT was carthetic.
:thumbsup:
QFT. It's a fictional movie, deal with it. It's a lot better than Matrix 2 or 3, that's for sure, yet there are still people who like those movies. You're free to have your opinion, but hating on the people who like the movie is very immature.
"How can I insult a group of people that does not exist (intelligent people who found the movie entertaining)?"
Originally posted by: Eeezee
Originally posted by: Ichinisan
Originally posted by: Eeezee
Originally posted by: Ephemeral
Originally posted by: Shadowknight
After reading all of this thread, discussing how this film is neo-conservative-liberal-left-right-nazi-republican-democratic-green party-Independent party-Liberalist-pro/anti-homosexualism, enviromentalist-pro/anti-gun ownership, pro/anti-abortion with socialist leanings, my response is this:
I don't care about politics. At all. In movies, newspapers, tv, or other media. The day I go into politics, I'll care. As a poster on AToT, owner of cats, and overweight guy, I've got better things to get riled up about. Hemerroids for one. Running out of gas on the highway, for another. I just really really don't care.
There. Now THAT was carthetic.
:thumbsup:
QFT. It's a fictional movie, deal with it. It's a lot better than Matrix 2 or 3, that's for sure, yet there are still people who like those movies. You're free to have your opinion, but hating on the people who like the movie is very immature.
No, honestly, are you serious when you say this?
"How can I insult a group of people that does not exist (intelligent people who found the movie entertaining)?"
The way you're writing makes it hard to detect sarcasm, so for your sake I hope you don't actually think this way
Originally posted by: elbosco
Originally posted by: Eeezee
Originally posted by: Ichinisan
Originally posted by: Eeezee
Originally posted by: Ephemeral
Originally posted by: Shadowknight
After reading all of this thread, discussing how this film is neo-conservative-liberal-left-right-nazi-republican-democratic-green party-Independent party-Liberalist-pro/anti-homosexualism, enviromentalist-pro/anti-gun ownership, pro/anti-abortion with socialist leanings, my response is this:
I don't care about politics. At all. In movies, newspapers, tv, or other media. The day I go into politics, I'll care. As a poster on AToT, owner of cats, and overweight guy, I've got better things to get riled up about. Hemerroids for one. Running out of gas on the highway, for another. I just really really don't care.
There. Now THAT was carthetic.
:thumbsup:
QFT. It's a fictional movie, deal with it. It's a lot better than Matrix 2 or 3, that's for sure, yet there are still people who like those movies. You're free to have your opinion, but hating on the people who like the movie is very immature.
No, honestly, are you serious when you say this?
"How can I insult a group of people that does not exist (intelligent people who found the movie entertaining)?"
The way you're writing makes it hard to detect sarcasm, so for your sake I hope you don't actually think this way
But on the bright side, should Ichinisan stand by his convictions he'll be rewarded with 72 virgins in paradise. Or a high quality 18-piece German cutlery set. I forget which one was showcased on the price is right.
Originally posted by: xSauronx
Originally posted by: Mani
Sorry dude, despite the work you put into that post, it will convince exactly zero people not to see this movie.
indeed
thing is
i didnt want to see it to start with, looks like a bad mix of 1984 and zorro.