please evaluate my future system

[clayman]

I want to use this for audio and video work mostly. And the usual web design/photoshop stuff also.

P4 1.8A
Epox 4BDA2+ Motherboard
512MB 266 RAM
Seagate 80GB ATA 100 HD
MSI G2Ti ProVT 64MB TV In&Out
Pioneer or Lite On 16X DVD (undecided which one)
Lite On 32X Burner
Soundblaster Audigy Platinum
Windows XP


A few Qs:

The G2Ti card i will use for analogue capture. Most people say get an ATI All In Wonder, but will this GeForce (http://www.msi.com.tw/products/multimedia/vga/spec/8836.htm) not capture just as well?
Digital video will be dealt with through the Audigy.

Im not setting multiple HDD's up right away. Some ppl say do it, others say its not necessary. I dont know, guess i'll have to find out for myself.

Will 266 DDR RAM be ok with a P4? I read that without RDRAM, the P4 will fall short of its potential. And theres really not much point in spending the cash on it if its not going to perform at its best.
A guy at one computer store told me RDRAM will pretty much vanish soon, and another guy told me 333 DDR RAM and the P4 dont mix well (something to do with chipsets!?)

A P4 2Gig A will cost me AU$180 more... is it worth it? Ive always been told 'get the fastest processor you can afford' but most people here seem to have the 1.6 or 1.8.

Also everyone tells me to get an Asus motherboard, but people here seem to like Epox so should i stick with that?


Advise and opinions would be very much appreciated. Thanks for reading


PS
I was going to consider the following, but Im definitely scared off by having to deal with/pay for extra fans and thermal paste (whatever that is). Im leaning towards a Pentium that i can get and forget.

Alternative System:
As above, but with
Athlon 1800XP
Epox 8K38+ Motherboard
512MB 333 RAM
Maxtor 80GB ATA 133 HD

 

[hopeless879]

If you don't plan on overclocking I would go with the Athlon system. You can find the athlon xp 1900+ cheaper than the P4 1.8A. You can usually order your motherboard, cpu, hsf and memory in a bundle so you dont have to worry about applying any thermal paste or installing the Heatsink.

Also that video card only has S-video inputs, so you would have to go through that. The all-in-wonder has s-video and rca inputs. The All-In-Wonder Radeon 7500 is good.

 

[MistaTastyCakes]

I've never built a P4 system before, but I'm 99% sure with a P4 you're gonna need fans and thermal grease/thermal pad, anyways. You don't want hot, stagnant air sitting in your case. Thermal paste is like $7 for Arctic Silver, and good quality, quiet fans are somewhere around $2.50 each at bgmicro.com.

Are you going to overclock? Most people here buy 1.6's and 1.8's so they can bump up the FSB and get more speed out of it at a low base price. If you're not going to overclock, I'd suggest the XP2000+ or something. I'm yet to use a P4 system, but from what I hear, it seems chip for chip, AMD is very competitive and sometimes faster than Intel in stock speeds, but Intel scales a lot better with 400mhz overclocks and such...

As for Epox, I'm real pleased with my Athlon Epox board (8KHA+), except for the whole Ti4600 fiasco a while back. I'm not sure how Epox performs in the P4 market. IMO, Asus is overpriced and of similar quality to a bunch of other brands out there. You're mainly paying for a name.

As for DDR vs. RDRAM, I really can't answer your question there.

Hope this somewhat helps.

 

[clayman]

the guys that im buying the system from said they'd overclock the P4 if i asked them to, but if i say yes, i dont really know anything about overclocking. Id be worried they might push it too far or something?


What's the diff in s-video and rca inputs?


Anyone out there have any opinion/experience with my P4/RD RAM Question?


Also, IF i decide to go with the Athlon, what do i need to make sure i get? i know nothing, and want to make sure that i get the necessary fans etc needed. Can someone spell it out for me please?
The store told me they wouldnt let it leave the store without adequate cooling, but adequate and ideal are two different things.

 

[MistaTastyCakes]

Well, I'm familiar with the Athlon moreso than the P4, so I'll answer your last question..

First off, for any PC you want a case with intake and exhaust holes in the front and back. This keeps hot air from staying stagnant in your case and forming a warm pocket. Thermal grease goes between the chip and the heatsink and helps transfer heat from one to the other. The best stuff is most likely Arctic Silver. As for a heatsink, every processor needs one. If you want inexpensive, you can go for a 60mm heatsink and fan, but it's going to be loud. If you wanna spend a little more, you can go for an 80mm heatsink and put a quiet, slow fan on there that'll still keep the CPU cool. Adequate cooling would be, for instance.. one exhaust fan, the heatsink that comes with the retail chip, and the included thermal paste. Ideally, you could go for an 80mm heatsink like the Alpha PAL8045, put a quiet 80mm Panaflo brand fan on there, and add an intake to the whole combination as well as an exhaust. I hope this helps! If ya have any questions feel free to ask. Cases make a big difference too, and people don't realize it. If you think about it, cases last a lot longer than any other component of your computer. Antec makes some great cases, as does Lian-Li, and Enlight has a nice budget case out there.

I wouldn't let anyone overclock for me if I didn't know anything about it. It could lead to problems down the road, for sure, and it could set you up for being scammed, potentially. I'd let them build it to your specs, do some research, and do the overclocking yourself. It's a good way to learn, by experimenting, and it's kinda fun.

But I'm a nerd, so I find nerdy things fun.

 

[Zukatah]

The p4 is easier to set up. The stock heatink/fan does the job pretty well, even with the thermal tape and the fan that comes with it is near silent. The heatsink is really easy to assemble with no risk of cracking the core like to Athlon. As for overclocking, do a little bit of research before trying it, it's well worth the hassle, especially when there are some problems! I agree on getting a good case, a cheap one usually results in cuts.

I hope it helps....

 

[clayman]

first up, thankyou for taking the time to help me out so far. Its appreciated.

ok i have almost decided on going with the Athlon system... the AMD fans here seem to be more enthusiastic than the pentium folk which makes it easier for me to learn things

the specs have changed a little, so just to recap, here is what im looking at now:

Athlon XP 1800+ Retail (i wanted the 3yr warranty for peace of mind, since this is my first AMD system)
Epox 8K3A+ RAID M/B
1 x 512MB PC333 DDR RAM
2 x Maxtor 40GB 7200rpm ATA133 HDD
MSI G2Ti ProVT 64MB
Lite On 16X DVD ROM
Lite On 32X Burner
Soundblaster Audigy Platinum
Aopen HQ08 Full Tower ATX Midi Tower Case (http://www.aopen.com/products/housing/hq08.htm)

Now for the bit Im still not sure of:

I asked the store for a better CPU fan. They told me it was uneccesary but I insisted, and they said they'd put a "Power Cooler CPU Fan" in for me. Mentioned about it having a copper bottom or something like that. And it had a satchel of thermal paste with it. This 'CPU Fan' is a heatsink yes?
I read on these forums someone said 'the best fan to use on a heatsink is a panaflo H1'. This Power Cooler thing had a fan on it. So, do ppl usually buy heatsinks and put their preferred fan onto it? I dont think Im following this very well

Am I on the right track? I will look into getting the Alpha PAL 8045 that was suggested if it will be more effective.
Also Im getting the store to put in an extra case fan (they quoted me for a generic 80mm fan for AU$10). I think the panaflo's are about AU$20 but i could be wrong. How many case fans do i need?

What do i need to do for suitable 'intake and exaust'? Ive only ever had a P200 with 32MB EDO RAM - not exactly a hot running high powered machine, so ive never needed to worry about this before.

 

[Duvie]

The p4 system you had listed was likely at default pretty even with the athlon system....the northwood p4 1.8a would be closer to a 2.0ghz willamette with its larger cache size...

The p4 coupled with ddr on the right system can easily hang with or outperform pc800 rdram...With the new sis645dx board coming out you can run 400mhz ddr at default 1800mhz...the bandwidth would be greater then rdram....

Since they are even I would go with whichever is cheaper...since stuff changes so fast the money you save can be a future upgrade....


NOw if you can oc (which by the way is a breeze with the northwoods), no question the northwood is currently in a league of its own...my p41.8 can do 2.4ghz at 1.65v and my board is capable of running 400mhz at that speed for my memory...no current athlon will compete with that, and it is unlikely any aircooled 2100+ will get to those speeds as well with out sounding like it will take off...NO specail hsf is needed just use the retail fan which comes with the chiop along with the 3 year warranty...

I paid just 200 for my chip, and at time amd2000+ was 260...it was a no brainer for me.

 

[tboneuls]

go with amd. there are some guides about installing the thermal paste and heatsink, I did it for the first time with no problems. if you do decide to go with intel, you may want rdram not ddr, but im not so sure about that. still, I would go with some thing like an athlon XP 2000+ or possibly 2100+, both will be cheaper than the P4 and faster. i am using a soltek SL-75DRV5 and an athlon XP2000+ and i couldn't be happier - except that i should have waited a week for the 2100+. check out my rig and contact me if you need any more help

 

[Duvie]

I am going to reiterate some points of my post since some Aters are too stupid to read and feel like attacking me in the PM's instead of the thread....

< the northwood p4 1.8a would be closer to a 2.0ghz willamette with its larger cache size >

I am stating the p4 willamette not athlon 2000+ as some of the illiterate think I stated....

Also I want to state that has been shown in reviews that 333mhz boards do not offer any great or noticeable improvement over 266mhz ddr boards...they stated that the athlon chip needs to increase the fsb to take advantage of the increased memory bandwidth of the 333mhz ddr...thay also talk about many asynch issues...

So No athlon 2100+ coupled with 333mhz ddr is going to beat the p4 2.4ghz, as some ATer pmed and told me...


If you plan on ocing any of the systems get the northwood as it is easier and the boost can be more sizeable...

If you plan on not ocing anything still go for the p4 or gat a higher athlon xp....

 

[FishTankX]

Allright, first, I would like to make a public apology to Duvie. I admit, I misread his posts, jumped to conclusions, and PM'd him. Hey, so sue me! I had 4 hours of sleep that day.

Second of all, clay man, AthlonXP's forte is productivity. An AthlonXP 1800+ will utterly trash any 1.8A in gaming and office,(Well maybe not office, since we're talking about northwood's) but the fact remains that a P4 Northwood remains top dog for things like windows media encoder and while i'm not *too* sure about sound forge.. you can look at benchmarks here.

An AthlonXP, in this arena, is creamed by the 1.8A.. wont' see that too much elsewhere though. But for your line of work, P4 northwood rules supereme. If you can get a successful overclock to 2.4, nothing can touch you. You might want to note that you with your slower DDR SDRAM might be a few percentage points behind, but not by much.
Note:Even for the P4 system, I would get 333MHZ DDRSDRAM. And then buy a cheap SiS645DX motherboard. That will give you support for future 133MHZ FSB processors, so you can jump to 3GHZ+ down the road when your current rig is feeling slugish.

Tboneuls:The stuff that he's doing is video and audio work. For audio work professional sound cards don't get along with Via. For professional sound the 1.8A with it's more cache might be better. Anyways, regardless, it's a streaming application and the P4 creams any CPU in streaming applications with DDR333/PC800. AMD isn't apropriate here.

Duvie:Again, i'm sorry, I didn't read your post correctly. But your rude behavior has tarnished my view of your originally civilized behavior. Resorting to curse words is a nono.

 

[FishTankX]

Oh yes, I totally forgot! The reason why the Radeon7500/8500 all in wonder is a better choice is because they all come with some lovely software to work with. I dunno if your Geforce2 Ti will have the same software. Plus, Geforce2's in general have all been slamed for their poor display quality. Do yourself a favor and get the Radeon..

 

[AA0]

your link shows the 1800 losing by 0.1 in mp4 encoding, and leading by a bit in the mp3 encoding.... it leads in general use graph, and only really on internet content creation, which isn't what he is doing, is it?

Your comments were true when talking about a Tbird, but not an XP, the SSE in the XP closes the gap, and surpasses the p4 in areas.

 

[FishTankX]

AA0:The applications he's using are included in internet content creation. I.E. Windows media player 8, photoshop, soundforge etc...

And in that benchmark the 1.8A handily beats the AthlonXP 1800+.

Plus professional sound cards don't get along with Via as well as they do with Intel.

 

[FishTankX]

"I want to use this for audio and video work mostly. And the usual web design/photoshop stuff also."
AA0:That perfectly describes sysmark 2002, internet content creation. In that benchmark, the P4 *clobbers* the AthlonXP. Even at the same ratings. In that benchmark a 2.0A defeats a 2100+ AthlonXP. Which is sad....

So for what he's doing, P4 is faster.

I admit, for gaming the AthlonXP is a highly competitive sollution. But not for content creation.

 

[clayman]

I was told to stay away from the SiS chipsets by a few people, though silly me didnt ask why. People here seem to do ok with P4's and SiS M/B's so, guess theyre ok?


Would i see a notable difference between 266 and 333 DDR RAM? RD RAM is too expensive for me, despite what ppl say about it not being that much dearer. But I dont want to go with 266 if 333 would be a wiser choice (and if the SiS chipsets are stable and reliable). Theyre the only ones that support 333 for the P4 arent they?

I'll have to select another Motherboard because the original Epox i was going to get doesnt support 333 i dont think.

 

[FishTankX]

Clay manefinatley get 333. It's gonna be the future standard for the AMD K8 CPU.

Clayman:Wait just a *little* bit longer for the SiS645DX to become popular and get over there. It supports P4's up to 3GHZ+ since those P4's are gonna be built on the 133MHZ FSB which the SiS645 normal verison doesn't support.

P.S. Welcome to AT, Clay man. You will be really proud of your rig.
Also:Here are your posibilities

P4 1.6A (90% chance you can overclock to 133MHZ FSB which will keep your puter system really happy. End clockspeed 2.133GHZ)
P4 1.8A (60% chance you can overclock to 133MHZ FSB which will also keep your puter system really happy. Might need a bit more VCore and that shortens the life of the chip. End clockspeed 2.4GHZ)
P4 2.0A (20% chance you will be able to overclock to 133mhz FSB, I wouldn't bet on it. End clock speed 2.6GHZ)

In any situation, please get the SiS645DX. It's rock solid, and supports the 133MHZ FSB standard, which is really important to future CPU upgrades. And get 333 RAM, you 'll thank your self later. Might amount to a whole 4 or 5% speed increase, which can translate into minutes of time when your encoding movies..

 

[clayman]

I found some time to look into the AIW 7500 cards... looks pretty good to me although alot of people seem to have problems getting it to work in XP which bothers me a little. But for the money, there isnt much else to get I dont think.

Also, If i get 333 RAM and a SiS645DX motherboard, it will perform better than 266 RAM? Or not? Sorry, I didnt know if the 4-5% increase would be seen now, or later with a future CPU upgrade. I think I should have understood this from your answer but...I didnt.

Are there any/many of the SiS645DX motherboards around now? I want to get my comp this weekend but dont want to throw money down the drain either.

 

[clayman]

has anyone heard of APACER brand RAM? If so, is it any good or should I avoid it?
Thanks

 

[LuNoTiCK]

You plan on buying the system from a store like you said? Either way I would go for the P4. Make sure you get good stuff. If they will overclock the P4 for you do they give you a warranty with the P4 so if they mess up no worries?

 

[clayman]

the store is a good one...and they wont screw me over if the stuff up, but I'm going to look into it and overclock it myself a bit later like ppl have suggested... just so i know whats going on in the box

Really all I need is a good motherboard tip then its full steam ahead. Any particular ones i should look at?