Please help me figure out these weird "crashes"!

[Slaanesh]

Here's the problem:
Since a couple of months I experience regular crashes. Windows doesnt completely crash, but suddenly slows to a crawl. These are the symptoms:

1. very suddenly and without any obvious reason the whole system slows to a complete crawl: mouse pointer lags terribly, sound stutters (standard windows ping is like p-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-n-g), programs run 10x slower. It's like doing a Prime95 torture test in the background, but worse.

2. NOTHING helps except reboot (soft or hard)

3. Process list doesn't show a process taking up massive CPU cycles. 98% Idle or so.

4. This happens very irregularly; sometimes after 10 hours, sometimes after 10 minutes. I'm posting this now because I'm trying to play Warhammer Online and it 'crashes' almost every 15 minutes now. Most (almost all) crashes I see are during games; sometimes I leave my pc running (just windows) during the night, and it has never crashed once when I check it the following day. But I definitely remember at least 1 crash without gaming (internet browsing).

5. Today I was monitoring my temps when it happened (while playing Warhammer):
HD4870X2 core 70°C
HD4870X2 mem 78°C
CPU 82-86°C
ambient 50°C

6. 3 weeks ago I upgraded my GPU: went from 8800GTS to HD4870X2 (thus also from Detonator to Catalyst drivers) and the crashes stay about the same.




Please please please has anyone any idea where I should start looking? I'm completely lost and it's driving me nuts! I hoped the new GPU would do wonders but it didn't change a thing. Are my temps to high? Is it a hardware or software problem? Any diagnostics I can run? i ran Memtest when I bought this PC (1,5y ago) and it passed; I can't remember having these crashes I year ago though. In fact, I can't remember having them before I upgraded to SP1... But I'm not quiet sure.
I also thought about the PSU but it happened already before I bought the 4870X2 (and I upgraded my PSU together with my new GPU...)


Any help is very welcome!!





Specs:
. Windows Vista 32bit SP1
. Intel C2D E6400 @ 3,2 Ghz (from the very beginning)
. Asus P5B (Intel P965)
. OCZ DDR2 PC2-6400 Platinum Revision 2
. Sapphire Radeon HD 4870 X2 2GB
. Creative Audigy
. WD Raptor 74GB
. WD Caviar 250GB
. BenQ 16x DL DVD-RW DW1640
. OCZ ModXStream-Pro 600W


Progs loaded at startup:
. Logitech Setpoint driver
. ATI Catalyst 8.10
. Creative Audigy driver
. Comodo Firewall

 

[Dahak]

The one thing that really stands out to me is the 82C on the cpu and the ambiant of 50C as well... Sounds like the machine is overheating.

Check all the fans, and check the mounting of the heatsink. Also try running the system at stock settings and see if the same thing happens

 

[0roo0roo]

um....
i don't think so.
ambient of 122f?
where the f*ck do you live?

 

[Paperdoc]

I'm going to presume that "ambient 50C" is some temperature sensor inside the case, and not an external sensor in the room. Anyway, all those temps are very high, so I agree with Dahak. You need to check all cooling systems.

First place is fans. Are they all turning? If you have fan speed monitoring somehow (in BIOS or via third-party software), does it indicate the fans are running at full speed? They certainly should be with these temps.

Next, check all the air intakes and outlets. At intakes there usually are dust filters, and they plug up over time. They should be removed, cleaned (and dried if washed) and replaced on a periodic preventive maintenace schedule. At the same time, look closely at the grillwork over the inlets and outlets. Clean off any accumulations of dust. Maybe even clean the fan blades?

Next, look closely at the cooling fins on the CPU and GPU coolers. Any big dust collections there should be removed carefully.

Outside the case, is there free flow of air towards intakes, and away from exhaust locations? I hope your system is not inside a closed cabinet.

Since temps are high everywhere, I do not suspect you have a problem with thermal contact of the CPU and its cooler. It seems instead that the entire case interior is too hot.

 

[Slaanesh]

Thanks for the suggestions.
50°C ambient is somewhere inside the case, it's measured with Rivatuner.
Still it's weird: my CPU temps have been around 84°C since the very beginning, while the crashes are only the last couple of months. My fans are all blowing except the GPU: at 40%, I thought it was cool enough this way...
I will try to run my CPU @ stock speed tomorrow, but I've never done that so I'm not really optimistic...

Couldn't the PSU be te problem though? I've upgraded to 600W but that might be too low for a 4870X2?

 

[Denithor]

600W is plenty for a 4870x2.

Run memtest again (overnight) to make it's not your memory, which might have developed problems since you tested it last time.

Find a disk-checking tool (specific to your hdd brand) and test your disk for errors.

Also, make sure you aren't crapped up with spyware/viruses/etc. I've seen systems before that behave like yours as a result of infections, although normally the system just runs crappy all the time, not off and on.

 

[daw123]

Originally posted by: Slaanesh

Specs:
. Windows Vista 32bit SP1
. Intel C2D E6400 @ 3,2 Ghz (from the very beginning)
. Asus P5B (Intel P965)
. OCZ DDR2 PC2-6400 Platinum Revision 2
. Sapphire Radeon HD 4870 X2 2GB
. Creative Audigy
. WD Raptor 74GB
. WD Caviar 250GB
. BenQ 16x DL DVD-RW DW1640
. OCZ ModXStream-Pro 600W

Hello.

Your OCZ ModXStream-Pro 600W is not one of the PSUs certified by ATI for the HD4870X2. That is not to say that it isn't good enough, but I would look at comparing the spec for yours with the certified OCZ 600W PSU; the Game X Stream OCZGXS600.

Here is the link to the ATI certified PSU page:
http://ati.amd.com/products/ce...wersupplies.html#pstop

If the spec for yours is equal to or better than the Game X Stream OCZGXS600, then it is likely that it will be OK (providing you don't have anything else power hungry in your case using all the power ) and the problem lies somewhere else.

That's just my $0.02 worth

 

[0roo0roo]

what case?
and well unless you know theres an actual temp sensor for that 50c reading sometimes programs can give false readings.

I will try to run my CPU @ stock speed tomorrow, but I've never done that so I'm not really optimistic...

that explains a lot.
you don't trouble shoot while overclocked.

 

[Slaanesh]

Thanks alot for the valuable replies.


1. About my 600W PSU:
The main difference between my ModXStream and the 600W GameXStream is the current over the 12+ rail: mine has 50A while the GameXStream has 72A. I don't know if that's a crucial difference. I do note however, that the 4870X2 only supports OCZ's EliteXStream 800 and 100W PSU (cfr. AMD certified PSU list): maybe 600W is just too low after all??

2.
Everybody seems to agree that my temps are too high. All my fans are running properly, and I really don't want to install even more fans, so I was thinking: would it help if I changed my overclocked E6400 (@3,2Ghz) for a E8500 at stock speed? Wouldn't my temps be lower then? Or is a E8500 not as fast as a E6400@3,2?

Your thoughts are appreciated!

 

[Blain]

Have you run any type of security scan on your system to see if you've contracted something?

 

[Roguestar]

Originally posted by: Slaanesh
Thanks alot for the valuable replies.


1. About my 600W PSU:
The main difference between my ModXStream and the 600W GameXStream is the current over the 12+ rail: mine has 50A while the GameXStream has 72A. I don't know if that's a crucial difference. I do note however, that the 4870X2 only supports OCZ's EliteXStream 800 and 100W PSU (cfr. AMD certified PSU list): maybe 600W is just too low after all??

2.
Everybody seems to agree that my temps are too high. All my fans are running properly, and I really don't want to install even more fans, so I was thinking: would it help if I changed my overclocked E6400 (@3,2Ghz) for a E8500 at stock speed? Wouldn't my temps be lower then? Or is a E8500 not as fast as a E6400@3,2?

Your thoughts are appreciated!

You could just try running the E8400 at stock to see if the temps come back to normal; reset your CMOS to make sure all voltages come back down to normal. Why would you buy a new CPU? Is the E8400 not enough in games etc?

 

[Slaanesh]

Originally posted by: Roguestar

Originally posted by: Slaanesh
Thanks alot for the valuable replies.


1. About my 600W PSU:
The main difference between my ModXStream and the 600W GameXStream is the current over the 12+ rail: mine has 50A while the GameXStream has 72A. I don't know if that's a crucial difference. I do note however, that the 4870X2 only supports OCZ's EliteXStream 800 and 100W PSU (cfr. AMD certified PSU list): maybe 600W is just too low after all??

2.
Everybody seems to agree that my temps are too high. All my fans are running properly, and I really don't want to install even more fans, so I was thinking: would it help if I changed my overclocked E6400 (@3,2Ghz) for a E8500 at stock speed? Wouldn't my temps be lower then? Or is a E8500 not as fast as a E6400@3,2?

Your thoughts are appreciated!

You could just try running the E8400 at stock to see if the temps come back to normal; reset your CMOS to make sure all voltages come back down to normal. Why would you buy a new CPU? Is the E8400 not enough in games etc?

I have a E6400, not E8400, which runs @ 2,13Ghz stock speed: this is an enormous bottleneck for my 4870X2 (which should at least be paired with a 3+Ghz processor it seems)...

 

[jae]

looks at cpu temp.. :-O thats like 180F

 

[VirtualLarry]

It sounds like you could be thermal throttling. Download RMClock and install it. It will tell you if you are thermal throttling. Leave it running and see what it says once you get one of these "crashes".

It could also be the video cards, if they aren't getting enough juice, they could clock down. Not sure what affect that would have on standard desktop UI graphics.

 

[Slaanesh]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
It sounds like you could be thermal throttling. Download RMClock and install it. It will tell you if you are thermal throttling. Leave it running and see what it says once you get one of these "crashes".

It could also be the video cards, if they aren't getting enough juice, they could clock down. Not sure what affect that would have on standard desktop UI graphics.

Great suggestion.
I ran RMClock while playing warhammer, and finally, after 3 hours it crawled again.
I alt-tabbed to RMClock and this is the result:

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4484/cpuwp9.jpg

Weird, no throttling, as far as this is correct. However, my CPU and OS load suddenly maxed out (100%)!!
Damn, something is clearly wrong here, but what?

Edit:
- my temps were lower when I took the screenshot because I exited the game at that time.
- My 2nd CPU core had pretty normal CPU and OS load (10-20 %)

 

[Blain]

Originally posted by: Blain

Have you run any type of security scan on your system to see if you've contracted something?

 

[Slaanesh]

Originally posted by: Blain

Originally posted by: Blain

Have you run any type of security scan on your system to see if you've contracted something?

I ran the Vista malware tool and the scan from Comodo firewall. Plus I reinstall my OS every so many months, and the problems originate from before the last HD format. But thanks, I'll try a brand new Vista install later today to see if it helps.

 

[Slaanesh]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
It sounds like you could be thermal throttling. Download RMClock and install it. It will tell you if you are thermal throttling. Leave it running and see what it says once you get one of these "crashes".

I ran Prime95 this morning, monitored with RMClock and this is what I got:

http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/3825/cpu2ps3.jpg


I guess you're right and the CPU is throttling? It's just very weird I NEVER encountered the slowdown crashes during this test! And I had NO throttling messages during the slowdowns last night. It's like they're not related..

 

[Slaanesh]

Ok, so I finally gave up and went to the store the buy a new CPU.
I swapped my E6400 for a new E8500 and the results are astonishing:

1. CPU temps under load lowered from 86 to 40°C !
2. Crash problems solved: had not a single crash during the last 2 weeks!
3. The E8500 @ stock speed (3,16Ghz) is a bit faster in every game I tested than my overclocked E6400 (@3,2Ghz)!

Thanks for all the help here, I initially blamed my PSU for all the troubles

And now some E8500 overclocking...