Discussion Please kill me if I ever get called for jury duty again

[SteveGrabowski]

I didn't think I could have any less faith in our courts, but here we are. Had jury duty today and had to show up at 8:00AM and literally all we did the first half of the day was take roll and alternate sitting in the court and sitting in the hallway while the judge processed maybe 30 requests for exemptions from jury duty, almost all of which were denied. Broke for lunch at 12:30, came back and the judge told us about the fifth amendment, then the prosecutor for the case spent 45 minutes telling us reasons we'd have to convict, didn't ask any of us any questions but just had a big discussion all at once with the 100 or so people in the pool, probably 85 of which never spoke a word. Then the defense coached us on all these reasons we had to find his client not guilty for 40-45 minutes, then same discussion format. Then go sit in the hall for a hour before coming back to find which 12 people got chosen. And most of them hadn't said a word the entire presentation from the two counsel. I was so bored to death another member of the pool and I made a pact to go rob a liquor store if we got chosen so we wouldn't have to show up tomorrow. The highlight of my day was complaining to the defense attorney how unreliable witness testimony was.

 

[nakedfrog]

The real duty was the crime pact you made along the way!

 

[emperus]

I didn't think I could have any less faith in our courts, but here we are. Had jury duty today and had to show up at 8:00AM and literally all we did the first half of the day was take roll and alternate sitting in the court and sitting in the hallway while the judge processed maybe 30 requests for exemptions from jury duty, almost all of which were denied. Broke for lunch at 12:30, came back and the judge told us about the fifth amendment, then the prosecutor for the case spent 45 minutes telling us reasons we'd have to convict, didn't ask any of us any questions but just had a big discussion all at once with the 100 or so people in the pool, probably 85 of which never spoke a word. Then the defense coached us on all these reasons we had to find his client not guilty for 40-45 minutes, then same discussion format. Then go sit in the hall for a hour before coming back to find which 12 people got chosen. And most of them hadn't said a word the entire presentation from the two counsel. I was so bored to death another member of the pool and I made a pact to go rob a liquor store if we got chosen so we wouldn't have to show up tomorrow. The highlight of my day was complaining to the defense attorney how unreliable witness testimony was.

I've sat for a 3 week trial. I'm glad I did. Do your civic duty.

 

[kitkat22]

I was asked for jury duty in the midst of dealing with COVID chaos. I got out of it, but to be honest, I kind wish I did do it.

 

[sandorski]

....and go to Jail cause you can't cope with Jury Duty? You're just condemning 12 others to your fate.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

I've sat for a 3 week trial. I'm glad I did. Do your civic duty.

Meh my main problem was how wasteful and disorganized the entire day was, just sitting around and so much wasted time. Like we were just warm bodies to the court. Didn't feel like we were performing any civic duty when we weren't even questioned by the lawyers nor judge.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

....and go to Jail cause you can't cope with Jury Duty? You're just condemning 12 others to your fate.

Meh it's a joke about how monotonous the day was.

 

[emperus]

Meh my main problem was how wasteful and disorganized the entire day was, just sitting around and so much wasted time. Like we were just warm bodies to the court. Didn't feel like we were performing any civic duty when we weren't even questioned by the lawyers nor judge.

I hear you though. A large part of it is just how the system is designed to whittle down the group till 12. I found the whole thing interesting once I was on a jury, outside the time waiting. Sometimes boring, but worthwhile.

One time I was called I spent the whole day just waiting in the room. They had to first see if any of the cases were going to trial, and then they would start calling us in to fill that jury. That day i didn't get called. Just brought a book to read.

 

[rommelrommel]

Volunteer as an auxiliary cop or whatever, typically that’s exempt for life territory.

 

[JTsyo]

....and go to Jail cause you can't cope with Jury Duty? You're just condemning 12 others to your fate.

Not if you plead guilty.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Just brought a book to read.

I brought a book but could only get through one chapter reading in those uncomfortable chairs in the hallway whereas I can read for hours chilling at home or relaxing on the beach or something. I'm the same way on a plane, like Puddy in this clip from Seinfeld:

 

[PowerEngineer]

I have been called for jury duty three times.

In my jurisdiction jury duty lasts for one week. Prospective jurors are assigned group numbers and you need to call in each night to see if your group needs to report in the next day. Decisions on how many groups to call in are based on the cases scheduled for that day. A couple of times my group was called in and then sent home because of last minute plea deals being struck. I did end up on one jury for a misdemeanor marijuana possession charge.

The last time I was called for jury duty was just as everything was being locked down for COVID. Never had to go in. 👍🏻

 

[MtnMan]

I received probably 4 summons for the local courts. Never had to go, as calling the night before to find I didn't have to report. When I received the 5th summons, I called and played the old fart card. Here those 72 and older can be excused. They asked if I wanted the exemption just this time, or forever. I chose forever

Received 1 for Federal Court Jury. 3-week commitment, and a loooong list of rules, mostly don't that would be strictly adhered to. This was about 2016, and you couldn't bring any electronic device.
Fortunately, got lucky on the call in the evening before and was not needed.

A good friend got called and selected for a jury. Some asswipe that was fighting hundreds of parking tickets and demanded a jury trial.

 

[Dave_5k]

I was 2nd alternate (backup) juror on a capital murder trial, sitting in on entire week-long trial, but then released as not needed, they did use 1 alternate but not me as 2nd. Also served on a half-day traffic-court jury, he was trying to fight a speeding ticket.

And reported to courthouse for jury selection pool 5 times ~ fastest was released after ~2.5 hours of sitting around, as not needed for any pool, but always a quite slow process.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

I did end up on one jury for a misdemeanor marijuana possession charge.

Was honestly hoping to get on a case like that to use jury nullification to refuse enforcement of a bad law. If I got selected on a possession case for weed I would have fought to the death for a not guilty verdict.

 

[Moonbeam]

I don't think I would ever selected for a jury because I would never follow court orders that I would have to base my decision of the evidence presented and or follow a judges instructions because I would instead follow my conscience wherever it would lead and I would have to make that clear to the attorneys involved.

 

[interchange]

I can certainly empathize with the giant waste of time that is the most likely outcome of being selected for Jury Duty.

But I still think your attitude sucks, and adjusting it can also affect the attitude of those around you. It is massively important that the Constitution guarantees all of us the right to a jury trial. Everyone should respect that. Unfortunately in order to protect that right we have to have a system for jury selection. Perhaps if those 30 people who requested exemptions for no valid legal reason respected this, you wouldn't have had to waste half a day for the judge to deny them.

What you report about the statements from the prosecutor and defense sounds wrong to me. Maybe an attorney here can clarify, but I think it would be improper for them to make arguments or present evidence at that stage. What sounds more likely is that they would discuss the nature of the charges and the duty of prospective jurors to convict if those elements were proven beyond reasonable doubt or acquit if they weren't or acquit if an affirmative defense is proven to whatever standard is required by law for it.

Personally I've only ever been on a jury pool once. It was for a civil case, and they gave us placards to raise if a question they asked applied to us so they could then follow up. The case happened to be an accidental death of a mentally ill man at a licensed personal care home. So every question applied to me, and I think there was a zero chance either side would want an expert on the jury. Eventually they started asking questions as "Does anyone other than Dr. Interchangex ....?". The people who were selected to the jury were basically the people who were the most naive with nondescript occupations. I imagine lawyers generally want people without preconceived notions of things that they can sway with their evidence and expert testimony. Sounds like that lines up with your experience too.

 

[HomerJS]

I didn't think I could have any less faith in our courts, but here we are. Had jury duty today and had to show up at 8:00AM and literally all we did the first half of the day was take roll and alternate sitting in the court and sitting in the hallway while the judge processed maybe 30 requests for exemptions from jury duty, almost all of which were denied. Broke for lunch at 12:30, came back and the judge told us about the fifth amendment, then the prosecutor for the case spent 45 minutes telling us reasons we'd have to convict, didn't ask any of us any questions but just had a big discussion all at once with the 100 or so people in the pool, probably 85 of which never spoke a word. Then the defense coached us on all these reasons we had to find his client not guilty for 40-45 minutes, then same discussion format. Then go sit in the hall for a hour before coming back to find which 12 people got chosen. And most of them hadn't said a word the entire presentation from the two counsel. I was so bored to death another member of the pool and I made a pact to go rob a liquor store if we got chosen so we wouldn't have to show up tomorrow. The highlight of my day was complaining to the defense attorney how unreliable witness testimony was.

The voir dire process usually goes that way. Just suck it up. Bring your laptop or read a book.

You always get people who don't pay attention and that's one of the reasons it takes time. I was in a group of 100 trying to find jurors, a judge asked the following...

Are you more likely to believe testimony if the witness is a cop?
Are you less likely to believe testimony if the witness is a cop?

A woman held up her ID card for both questions. Judge looked at the woman and said, "really, more likely and less likely?". Everyone laughed and I'm sure that woman paid closer attention moving forward.

 

[emperus]

I don't think I would ever selected for a jury because I would never follow court orders that I would have to base my decision of the evidence presented and or follow a judges instructions because I would instead follow my conscience wherever it would lead and I would have to make that clear to the attorneys involved.

What do you mean not base your decisions on the evidence presented? Would you do outside research?

 

[Paratus]

The voir dire process usually goes that way. Just suck it up. Bring your laptop or read a book.

You always get people who don't pay attention and that's one of the reasons it takes time. I was in a group of 100 trying to find jurors, a judge asked the following...

Are you more likely to believe testimony if the witness is a cop?
Are you less likely to believe testimony if the witness is a cop?

A woman held up her ID card for both questions. Judge looked at the woman and said, "really, more likely and less likely?". Everyone laughed and I'm sure that woman paid closer attention moving forward.

I’ve gone through voir dire process twice. The just stellar parts was listening to one person say if you are arrested then you are guilty of something because only guilty people are arrested and in a domestic abuse case between an African American woman and her African immigrant boyfriend watching the defense attorney toss a potential juror who worked at an abuse hotline while the prosecutor was tossing African Americans from the pool.

Really eye opening.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

I can certainly empathize with the giant waste of time that is the most likely outcome of being selected for Jury Duty.

But I still think your attitude sucks, and adjusting it can also affect the attitude of those around you. It is massively important that the Constitution guarantees all of us the right to a jury trial. Everyone should respect that. Unfortunately in order to protect that right we have to have a system for jury selection. Perhaps if those 30 people who requested exemptions for no valid legal reason respected this, you wouldn't have had to waste half a day for the judge to deny them.

What you report about the statements from the prosecutor and defense sounds wrong to me. Maybe an attorney here can clarify, but I think it would be improper for them to make arguments or present evidence at that stage. What sounds more likely is that they would discuss the nature of the charges and the duty of prospective jurors to convict if those elements were proven beyond reasonable doubt or acquit if they weren't or acquit if an affirmative defense is proven to whatever standard is required by law for it.

Personally I've only ever been on a jury pool once. It was for a civil case, and they gave us placards to raise if a question they asked applied to us so they could then follow up. The case happened to be an accidental death of a mentally ill man at a licensed personal care home. So every question applied to me, and I think there was a zero chance either side would want an expert on the jury. Eventually they started asking questions as "Does anyone other than Dr. Interchangex ....?". The people who were selected to the jury were basically the people who were the most naive with nondescript occupations. I imagine lawyers generally want people without preconceived notions of things that they can sway with their evidence and expert testimony. Sounds like that lines up with your experience too.

I'm also kind of pissed because the judge was late. If I was late I'd probably get a warrant for no show. Still three hours taking roll and going through people asking for exemptions though.

 

[HomerJS]

I'm also kind of pissed because the judge was late. If I was late I'd probably get a warrant for no show. Still three hours taking roll and going through people asking for exemptions though.

Judges at Montgomery County courthouse are real pros. A lot of stuff happens behind the scenes with cases. If our judge was late he apologized and explained.

 

[vi edit]

I was foreman for a coroner panel. Man that was a wild week.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

What do you mean not base your decisions on the evidence presented? Would you do outside research?

Kind of sounds like he's echoing my point about jury nullification, which is a right any member of a jury has. Eg famously used by northerners finding people innocent who were prosecuted under the Fugitive Slave Act, also famously used by racists in Mississippi to let Emmet Till's murderers go free. But the fact you cannot be legally questioned for why you found one verdict or the other implies you can base your decision on anything you want and like in the Fugitive Slave Act cases, you'd be a monster to follow judge's orders that you have to judge the defendant on whether you think it has been shown beyond a reasonable doubt the law was broken.

 

[MtnMan]

My wife was summoned on a capital murder case, two highway patrolmen murdered in the breathalyzer room. At the time, our daughter was two, and the wife was a stay at home mom.

Huge jury pool, due to the notoriety of the case. Finally, on the third day of just sitting, the group she was in was called for their voir dire process, and the first thing the judge asks her is "mama, do you have small children at home" to which she answered yes, and she was dismissed.