RANT ON
Every nation that has turned it's back on God has eventually disintegrated at some point in history. We need to pay attention to lessons learned because if God is pushed out of our society then so goes the rule of law.
Even though I believe in God, and that the pledge of allegiance is as consititutional as affirming a Creator as the one who has granted us our inalienable rights, I cannot buy this argument, and most people here won't support it either. Believe it or not, America is not a theocracy, because a self-imposed theocracy (i.e., Bush says, "Let's all believe in God now") will turn into a dictatorship. Is that what you want? Furthermore... who decides when a nation "turns its back on God?" You, or God? And how will God make that known? By "disintegrating" the nation? What if nations have other ways of reaching demise... say... idiocy. Then again, perhaps the fundamentalist Muslim groups haven't turned their back on God. They're still around and causing our demise. Is God sending them against us because we turned away from Him? If you buy that line of logic, then you're going to have to support the terrorists to stay on God's side... yuck.
As has been stated this is but the tip of a large iceberg. We will need to amend the Constitution and take "Creator" out of it. "In God We Trust" on our money will have to go. If any reference to God is banned then chaplins in the armed services must stop preaching God. The Pesident should not go to church. If you need to really worship "God" stop offending those who don't...just stop being free to worship at all....sound farfetched....not really, this IS what these LIBERAL ATHESISTS REALLY WANT !
Actually, I wouldn't mind if they did take it out. If it's not what America as a whole represents, then why should we force people to live a lie? Why get people to support a political system that has as an integral part of it the idea that God exists? That would violate the intellectual integrity of many... even Anandtech. Oh, and just because America takes out references to God doesn't mean that "chaplins" will stop preaching God. And the President is free to go to whatever church he wants to go to. I'm afraid your statements are being perceived with more lunacy than you actually maintain... what with the "LIBERAL ATHEISTS" and all. We've got liberal Christians and liberal Atheists. We've got conservative Christians and conservative Atheists. But what does any of the "Christian" or "Atheist" tagline really have to do with our legal system?
There goal is take away any rights to religious freedom and gain the right to keep taking away our freedoms and all our other rights as Americans. This is just the beginning, mark my words. They will go for the jugular now. Why is that the Bible is ALWAYS a best seller and the most read book in the world ?
First off, I don't think there's an atheist here that gives a rat's tail about whether or not I go to church or practice my own form of religion in my own way. They might think I'm crazy, but none of them really want to take away that right. They might try to convince me that it's invalid. They might say that it violates intellectualism. They might even call me a hypocrite. I still don't see any of my rights taken away with any of that, do you? And part of the reason the Bible is ALWAYS a best seller and the most read book in the world is that it was one of the first books to hit the Gutenberg press. It's also served as the foundation for tons of religions... not just Christian. Furthermore, we've got people who dedicate their lives to the book... and we've had that going on for several thousand years. It's bound to be popular. Of course, if Tom Clancy would have lived during the 16th century and had some of his stuff printed, I bet "Sum Of All Fears" would have had a better turnout... and maybe the novels would have sold better had more people given their lives to follow the leading of some of his stuff. He's a pretty darn good author. But I digress.
Because people KNOW there is a God and He is part of our lives
Naturally I disagree with this statement, for the reasons stated above. I think that *some* people know there is a God and He is part of our lives, but I've never bought the classic line that deep down inside everyone, they just "know" that there's a God. Shoot, I'm a Christian, and I don't just "know" that there's a God. I have reasons for believing what I believe that don't rely solely on some kind of emotive form of a cocaine high. Shoot this up, kid. God is great... all the time.
Nations aren't formed by chance, God had a role in starting ours. Our forefathers belived that, but apparently people of this modern age really don't. Remember the P;grims didn't come here to have a good time and eat Turkey, they came here for RELIGIOUS freedom. Now were starting to go full circle. Were afraid of "offending" those who don't want to hear about God. Maybe it's about thime they are offended, because I'm offended by there total lack of wanting to hear it. Since when was hearing something you dn't like against the law ? Everyone has the right to accept to reject what they hear, but this ruleing today opens up the "offecsive" nature of free speech.
Which is more offensive? To kill off Native Americans for not believing in your flavor of God, or to take out the word "God" from the pledge of allegiance? Do you *really* think people were only looking for religious reasons to start a new nation? Do you still think that the civil war was fought over slavery? Was the war cry "No Taxation without Representation" or was it "Free Us From The Godless King George?" Yeah. It all goes back to money and power.
We soon forget that our laws, when they are just and right have been instituted and passed down generations as "common law". Are these just some great thoughts passed down by our ancestors ? I think not, they came from a higher just being....namely God himself.
I'd look up the Emerson quote about the ruts of conformity, but in my mind, transcendentalist authors wrote themselves out of a living. Anyway... abortion is becoming common law. Would you support Roe v. Wade if it's just been instituted and passed down generations? Slavery was common law. Should we go back to it? Did either of these come from God?
And where did these principles stem from that make our laws and this country ? If you read the 10 commandments its plain to see for even a blind man that EVERY law Mankind in it's wisdom would never have made 10 just ones. In fact, in the US we would make a million exceptions to just one commandment if we had a chance. We if left to our devices would have chaos. The very rights that these people want to take from us our God given rights to start with !
Most of the 10 Commandments can be universally applied in any situation/nation and are not solely Christian concepts. Most of them are common sense. It's easy to see why you shouldn't murder people. It's easy to see why you shouldn't steal. Why you shouldn't commit adultery. Why you shouldn't lie in court. Buddhists could accept the majority of these commandments, for example. And Deuteronomy doesn't stop with just 10 commandments. It also has the million exceptions and the specific details. Were these God-given, or were they a result of "Mankind's" chaotic devices.
It boils down to this. One mans right to say there is no God takes away (eventually) will take awy my right to say there is one. If this ruling should stand then I may someday be a criminal in a police state.
This is perhaps your greatest crime against my intellect. God granted man the freedom to say that there is no God. This has no bearing on the right He gave you to say that there is. To deny someone of the freedom one has to choose God or not to choose God is to become like Constantine, or perhaps the Spanish Inquisition. If there is indeed a God that you and I both believe in, He's not going to want a bunch of brainless clones running around believing in Him because they have no choice. Do you think we should stick the 10 commandments into the pledge of allegiance too? Has omitting them from the pledge of allegiance caused any more murders, robberies, or false witness? I think not.
I wonder what God is thinking as He looks down on us today, in our stupidity. Guess we need to pray just a little harder for our country and now we need His forgiveness for wanting to turn our backs on Him.
The first good idea I've heard from your post. I'm a big fan of that. We *all* have wanted to turn our backs on God. This is the essence of sin. But don't get the impression that you're only praying for the "other people," for none of us is righteous. In layman's terms, "nobody's perfect." This isn't an excuse, but it is true.
RANT OFF
AGREED. Best post I've read in the entire five pages of this thread. Just when I was starting to doubt ATOT's level of intelligence, this post at least made the falling barometer stabilize.
Grrrrrr...