Pledge of Allegiance Unconstitutional

[TheWart]

Well I for one will continue to receite it. Put me in jail, I don't care. For I Pledge Allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it Stands, One Nation, Under God, Indivisible and with Liberty for All.

 

[StageLeft]

They're right of course. Say it all you like if it pleases you but it does conflict with separation of church and state. That's obvious.

 

[Random Variable]

Originally posted by: TheWart
Well I for one will continue to receite it. Put me in jail, I don't care. For I Pledge Allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it Stands, One Nation, Under God, Indivisible and with Liberty for All.

I assume that the ruling only applies to non-religious schools.

 

[Lucky]

Originally posted by: Scipionix

Originally posted by: Lucky

But really, if our national motto is "In God We Trust,"

Here's hoping that will change too. Although that phrase was first instituted back in the 1800's, there wasnt a law making it mandatory to appear on coins until 1955 (although congress ordered it in the 20's, I think), and it wasnt a national motto until 1956. The previous (and still somewhat concurrent) motto was 'E Pluribus Unum' but in 1963 the government said the motto was "in god we trust".

I actually did a research project on this for my college freshman english class.

It was actually the de facto motto from as early as 1864 and no later than 1908. While "In God we trust" is the official national motto, "E pluribus unum" is likewise considered a national motto.



The Great Seal and National Mottos of the United States

Yes, as I said it was used in the 1800's on coins. De facto or not, it was not recognized as the national motto until '56. And I did say "E pluribus unum" was "still somewhat concurrent".

 

[Random Variable]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
They're right of course. Say it all you like if it pleases you but it does conflict with separation of church and state. That's obvious.

It has been unconstitutional since 1943 to make anyone recite the pledge in school (or even be in the same room when other people are reciting it). Thats' why this ruling is so bizarre.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Vespasian

Originally posted by: Skoorb
They're right of course. Say it all you like if it pleases you but it does conflict with separation of church and state. That's obvious.

It has been unconstitutional since 1943 to make someone say the pledge in school (or even be in the same room when other people are saying it). Thats' why this ruling is so bizarre.

Well this time they're saying the pledge itself is unconstitutional right?

 

[Random Variable]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Vespasian

Originally posted by: Skoorb
They're right of course. Say it all you like if it pleases you but it does conflict with separation of church and state. That's obvious.

It has been unconstitutional since 1943 to make someone recite the pledge in school (or even be in the same room when other people are reciting it). Thats' why this ruling is so bizarre.

Well this time they're saying the pledge itself is unconstitutional right?

No, just those two words.

 

[Scipionix]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
They're right of course. Say it all you like if it pleases you but it does conflict with separation of church and state. That's obvious.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
Don't see how you figure that.

 

[ATLien247]

Originally posted by: TheWart
Well I for one will continue to receite it. Put me in jail, I don't care. For I Pledge Allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it Stands, One Nation under God, Indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for All.

Slight correction there...

 

[SuperTool]

I guess Dr. Peepper had some foresight when they made the "One nation, indivisible" can. And man what a fit the right wingers on Fox had over that one.
This is excellent decision. I don't want my money going to indoctrinate children. I always skipped the under God part anyways. It is irrelevant and a political hack to the real pledge which signifies unity, liberty and justice.

 

[Scipionix]

Originally posted by: TheWart
Well I for one will continue to receite it. Put me in jail, I don't care. For I Pledge Allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it Stands, One Nation, Under God, Indivisible and with Liberty for All.

Well there you're wrong. It's "One nation under God, not "One nation, under God."

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Scipionix

Originally posted by: Skoorb
They're right of course. Say it all you like if it pleases you but it does conflict with separation of church and state. That's obvious.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
Don't see how you figure that.

Exactly so why was it there in the first place?

 

[Random Variable]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Scipionix

Originally posted by: Skoorb
They're right of course. Say it all you like if it pleases you but it does conflict with separation of church and state. That's obvious.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
Don't see how you figure that.

Exactly so why was it there in the first place?

Apparently those words were added in the 1950's, (something that I did not know).

 

[Gujski]

People have too much time on their hands. who decided this needed to go into court in the first place??

 

[Piano Man]

I'm personally for this, so I hope it stands. I highly doubt; however, that the Supreme Court with its current members will let this ruling stand.

 

[Lucky]

Originally posted by: Piano Man
I'm personally for this, so I hope it stands. I highly doubt; however, that the Supreme Court with its current members will let this ruling stand.

Thats what Im thinking.

 

[Random Variable]

Originally posted by: Gujski
People have too much time on their hands. who decided this needed to go into court in the first place??

Some father from California. He was just interviewed on FOX News.

 

[SmackdownHotel]

Originally posted by: Piano Man
I'm personally for this, so I hope it stands. I highly doubt; however, that the Supreme Court with its current members will let this ruling stand.

Bingo. Just remove the phrase.

 

[xospec1alk]

wooho

separation of chruch and state

 

[Amused]

The Founding Fathers did NOT put "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance or "In God We Trust" on U.S. currency. "Under God" was added to the Pledge by an act of Congress in 1954, during the McCarthy "communist witch hunt" hysteria. "In God We Trust" began to appear on coins in 1864 and became the official motto of the United States only in 1956. [The motto conceived by the Founding Fathers was "E Pluribus Unum" (From Many, One).]

 

[justint]

Originally posted by: Scipionix

Originally posted by: TheWart
Well I for one will continue to receite it. Put me in jail, I don't care. For I Pledge Allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it Stands, One Nation, Under God, Indivisible and with Liberty for All.

Well there you're wrong. It's "One nation under God, not "One nation, under God."

So Scipionix, you disagree that his is an establishment of religion by the government?


I think the consensus is pretty widespread that it is an establishment of religion in violation of the Constitution.

 

[Harvey]

YES!!! It's about time!

I am proud to be an American, and overall, I am very proud of my country's accomplishments. The words, "under God" were added in 1954. That change immediately ruined the poetic cadance of the words. Ever since, when reciting the Pledge, I have remained silent for those two words.

The words, "under God" have no relevance to the true meaning of being an American, whether or not one happens to believe in the exitance one deity or another. The U.S must forever remain a land of equal opportunity for all, regardless of social distinctions such as race and religion.

 

[Lucky]

Ever since, when reciting the Pledge, I have remained silent for those two words.

Ya know harvey, that really dates you.

 

[Red Dawn]

I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands- one nation indivisible-with liberty and justice for all as it should be!!


http://www.usflag.org/the.pledge.of.allegiance.html

On September 8,1892, the Boston based "The Youth's Companion" magazine published a few words for students to repeat on Columbus Day that year. Written by Francis Bellamy,the circulation manager and native of Rome, New York, and reprinted on thousands of leaflets, was sent out to public schools across the country. On October 12, 1892, the quadricentennial of Columbus' arrival, more than 12 million children recited the Pledge of Allegiance, thus beginning a required school-day ritual.

At the first National Flag Conference in Washington D.C., on June14, 1923, a change was made. For clarity, the words "the Flag of the United States" replaced "my flag". In the following years various other changes were suggested but were never formally adopted.

It was not until 1942 that Congress officially recognized the Pledge of Allegiance. One year later, in June 1943, the Supreme Court ruled that school children could not be forced to recite it. In fact,today only half of our fifty states have laws that encourage the recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance in the classroom!

In June of 1954 an amendment was made to add the words "under God". Then-President Dwight D. Eisenhower said "In this way we are reaffirming the transcendence of reigious faith in America's heritage and future; in this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be our country's most powerful resource in peace and war."

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Lucky
Ya know harvey, that really dates you.

Yep. But it's nothing most AT folks don't know, already. I'm not only as old as dirt, you'll find my name on the patent.

Red -- Amongst other things, I'm a songwriter. I prefer the 1923 update that added of the United States of America.

In bars of four, that sentence has beautiful cadance in both versions. For example:

| I pledge allegience to the flag | of the United States of America, | and to the republic for which it stands, | [rest] one nation, | [rest] indivisible, [rest] with | liberty and justice for all. [rest] |