Pledge of Allegiance Unconstitutional

[Red Dawn]

The dechristianization of America will take time.

We just have to make sure that fruitcakes like NightFlyerGTI and other Fund A Mental Case Christians don't achieve more power than their minority status among the American Population deserves. Unfortunately they have the Republican party bent over and are given them the Holy High Hard One.

 

[Ramsnake]

Personally, I think we never should have split from England. It'd save a bundle of trouble.

now thats a traitor....

 

[ToBeMe]

Figured.............already on the news that thousand of schools & churches have already called for the nullification of this ruling as well as most republicans in any capacity nationwide. Several teachers in CA have already stated that they will not change anything and will recite the Pledge as usuall with no changes..............hate to say it, but, this thing hasn't got a chance in hell of staying on the books.............Busch, Cheney and Powell all have called the ruling ridiculous.............

 

[StattlichPassat]

Originally posted by: Ramsnake

Originally posted by: Tripleshot
This judge is going to be looking for a job at walmart as a door greeter next time he comes up for re election or confirmation.

Those that don't like the term "God" injected in their lives, quit using our currency and don't seek redress in a court in the US. If asked to tell the truth, you must declare to do so"so help you God".

I have never figured how some of you can claim to be athiest as a badge of honor. To me, and most others, we just view you as quite confused, and in need of Gods help.

To claim that I can't pledge alliegence to my God in public and with an overt action is unconstitiutional. It's called free speach. The same thing that allows us to express our views here, thank God!

Now is that comedy?.....ROFL....thanks for the laugh....

I didn't see any part of that funny... are you drinking? It's all the truth! Except maybe the Wal-Mart bit... I'm thinking (hoping) more along the lines of 'homeless'.

 

[StattlichPassat]

Originally posted by: SViscusi

Originally posted by: NightFlyerGTI

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

For anyone who happens to be siding with me on this, I've realized there's nothing to fret over long-term.

Well Jeebus has this to say about that

And the Pope adds his 2 cents

Uncalled for.

But still pretty damn funny nonetheless.

I didn't think it was whatsoever- who is Jeebus F. Christ? What does 'F' stand for?

 

[Red Dawn]

Busch, Cheney and Powell all have called the ruling ridiculous

Of course, they are Republicans and are beneficiaries of the Holy ZHigh Hard One administered by the Religious Ridiculous..err Right.

 

[Red Dawn]

What does 'F' stand for?

Fscktard, Franklin, Fredrick, Ferdinand, Fromunda.. it could stand for anything.

 

[Dedpuhl]

Originally posted by: NightFlyerGTI

Originally posted by: Dedpuhl
The dechristianization of America will take time.

You have GOT to be kidding. ROTFL!

From an article of USNews (I think that was the magazine; I only have a copy of the page with the story:


The death of God

Modern Europe is a postreligious society. More accurately, what was once the heartland of Christendom is a post-Christian society. Throughout the continent, churches stand empty. Islam, however, is growing in influence; in France and Britian the most self-confident religious community is Muslim.




If Europe can throw God and Jesus in the trash, then so can the USA...

 

[ToBeMe]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Busch, Cheney and Powell all have called the ruling ridiculous

Of course, they are Republicans and are beneficiaries of the Holy ZHigh Hard One administered by the Religious Ridiculous..err Right.

And who's running the country right now????? They are............ I'll bet this ruling doesn't last the Summer..........I couldn't care less either way............I'll say it the way I feel it should be said no matter what the want to put into it, or delete from it...........all it means to me is that I'm pledging my allegence to our flag and our country.........not your God, their God or anyone elses God.............

 

[Scipionix]

Originally posted by: Dedpuhl
The death of God

Modern Europe is a postreligious society. More accurately, what was once the heartland of Christendom is a post-Christian society. Throughout the continent, churches stand empty. Islam, however, is growing in influence; in France and Britian the most self-confident religious community is Muslim.

If Europe can throw God and Jesus in the trash, then so can the USA...

But we haven't and we won't any time soon. Europe is morally bankrupt now. If Christianity is what keeps the USA from becoming like Europe, then God bless it.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: NightFlyerGTI
I didn't see any part of that funny... are you drinking? It's all the truth! Except maybe the Wal-Mart bit... I'm thinking (hoping) more along the lines of 'homeless'.

Ahh... There's that fine Christian spirit shining through... hyporcrite!

Originally posted by: ToBeMe
And who's running the country right now????? They are............

And you think this is good? Let's see... Today, Bush-lite was ultra-quick on the draw to take the moral high ground and call for prosecution against WorldCom's egregious financial practices, but where was he when his contributor buddies from Enron were involved in equally notorious activities? :disgust:

 

[ToBeMe]

If Europe can throw God and Jesus in the trash, then so can the USA...

I have no particular beliefs right now, but, even if I did I wouldn't just dump one God and pick up "Allah".........that seems dumber yet..............

 

[StattlichPassat]

Originally posted by: ToBeMe
Figured.............already on the news that thousand of schools & churches have already called for the nullification of this ruling as well as most republicans in any capacity nationwide. Several teachers in CA have already stated that they will not change anything and will recite the Pledge as usuall with no changes..............hate to say it, but, this thing hasn't got a chance in hell of staying on the books.............Busch, Cheney and Powell all have called the ruling ridiculous.............

As have all the Senate members I've seen on C-SPAN thus far, but I stopped watching awhile ago. I'm sure some agree with the ruling.

 

"It pains me every time I hear it. There is no god and thus the pledge with that statement suggests that I am not a citizen of this nation because I simply can't pledge allegiance to something that doesn't exist.

You may consider it trivial, but I absolutely do not."

Kgraeme, do you take your time to read documents? If so, do you care to show me where in the pledge of allegiance it is stated or implied that one pledges allegiance to "God" or any idol of worship?

It seems clear to me that allegiance is pledged to the flag of the United States of America and the republic for which it stands. The other phrases act as adjectives describing the republic for which the flag stands. It puzzles me how people make decisions when they cannot be patient to deliberate on all materials available to them.

Joe Bad, you certainly do not help your argument with that type of response rather directed toward the individuals.

[Harvey:]"In bars of four, that sentence has beautiful cadance in both versions. For example:

| I pledge allegience to the flag | of the United States of America, | and to the republic for which it stands, | [rest] one nation, | [rest] indivisible, [rest] with | liberty and justice for all. [rest] |"[/i]

That looks like a beautiful amen cadence at the end! Or must I call it a plagal candence instead?

Some people have alread stated my opinion, so I will not bother going through it. I am simply willing to bet (figuratively) that the Supreme Court will overturn the decision of the appellate court. Do I think the appelate court's decision was completely unfounded? No. However, for reasons already stated by others, I trust that the Supreme Court will repeal the decision of the appellate court.

I think I should use this opportunity to state something: Many people and some members here have stated about basically all of our founding fathers (i.e., those who wrote the constitution, declaration of independence) having been Christians. This is not factual. As far as facts I have read from reliable sources and known, majority of our forefathers were deists. Deists believe in the existence of a supreme-being, but they do not believe He is active after creation. And they do not believe in divine revelation.

In the technical and philosophical sense, the question is not the pledge of allegiance itself but instead the belief of this nation. The question really is, is the United States of America really one nation under "God"? If the answer to that is 'no', then it would be insignificant in the pledge of allegiance. And if the answer is 'yes', then it would be significant in there. But even in the absence of that phrase, the belief would sustain itself in other decisions of the nation.

 

[Ramsnake]

Originally posted by: Scipionix

Originally posted by: Ramsnakeusing your logic ....does that mean you support slavery because it was there at the time of independence?

Actually your comparison is totally invalid since slavery was expressly outlawed by the 13th Amendment. I grand you leave to amend your argument.

im not talking abt some rules book dammit....im talking abt foundations that u say this nation was built on

 

[Red Dawn]

Ahh... There's that fine Christian spirit shining through... hyporcrite!

Fundamentalist Christian=Hypocrite

 

[SViscusi]

Originally posted by: NightFlyerGTI

Originally posted by: SViscusi

Originally posted by: NightFlyerGTI

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

For anyone who happens to be siding with me on this, I've realized there's nothing to fret over long-term.

Well Jeebus has this to say about that

And the Pope adds his 2 cents

Uncalled for.

But still pretty damn funny nonetheless.

I didn't think it was whatsoever- who is Jeebus F. Christ? What does 'F' stand for?

C'mon grow a thicker skin, the first one's funny. See this is why Jews rule, they can laugh at themselves.

 

[xirtam]

Originally posted by: Ramsnake

Personally, I think we never should have split from England. It'd save a bundle of trouble.

now thats a traitor....

America was founded by "traitors". Have a happy Fourth of July.

 

[Scipionix]

Originally posted by: Ramsnake
im not talking abt some rules book dammit....im talking abt foundations that u say this nation was built on

I don't know what book you're talking about. I'M talking about the Constitution.

 

[Martin]

I have never figured how some of you can claim to be athiest as a badge of honor. To me, and most others, we just view you as quite confused, and in need of Gods help.

You're a real gem TripleShot, I can always count on your dumbass posts to make me laugh

 

[Red Dawn]

You're a real gem TripleShot, I can always count on your dumbass posts to make me laugh

You can probably count on an email from him threatening your physical being now

 

[Dedpuhl]

Originally posted by: ToBeMe

If Europe can throw God and Jesus in the trash, then so can the USA...

I have no particular beliefs right now, but, even if I did I wouldn't just dump one God and pick up "Allah".........that seems dumber yet..............

I agree. I don't know why they prefer Allah.

 

[StattlichPassat]

Originally posted by: Dedpuhl

Originally posted by: NightFlyerGTI

Originally posted by: Dedpuhl
The dechristianization of America will take time.

You have GOT to be kidding. ROTFL!

From an article of USNews (I think that was the magazine; I only have a copy of the page with the story:


The death of God

Modern Europe is a postreligious society. More accurately, what was once the heartland of Christendom is a post-Christian society. Throughout the continent, churches stand empty. Islam, however, is growing in influence; in France and Britian the most self-confident religious community is Muslim.




If Europe can throw God and Jesus in the trash, then so can the USA...

Only a liberal would quote (extremely, in this case) biased media and expect it to be considered valid by the opposing party...

Europe has certainly not thrown 'God and Jesus in the trash'- how dare you even mention such a thing. Most of the Chruches and cathedrals I saw when I was in Europe last month were jam-packed. "Ah ha! Only 'most'!" you say... Touche'. That was even on a weekday and Christians don't live in Churches. You should try to find a parking place within a mile of a larger one on a Sunday. Oh yeah, and that's even in left-wing Berlin, Germany.

 

[UltraQuiet]

Just for the record, I agree whole heartedly with this:

Circuit Judge Ferdinand Fernandez, who agreed with some elements of the decision but disagreed with the overall opinion, said phrases such as "under God" or "In God We Trust" have "no tendency to establish religion in this country," except in the eyes of those who "most fervently would like to drive all tincture of religion out of the public life of our polity."

"My reading of the stelliscript [majority ruling] suggests that upon Newdow's theory of our Constitution, accepted by my colleagues today, we will soon find ourselves prohibited from using our album of patriotic songs in many public settings," Fernandez wrote.

"'God Bless America' and 'America the Beautiful' will be gone for sure, and while use of the first and second stanzas of the Star Spangled Banner will still be permissible, we will be precluded from straying into the third. And currency beware!"

To me the pertinent part of that statement was "no tendency to establish religion in this country". Weren't the writers of the Constitution running away from a goverment that mandated their religion? Wasn't the Constitution written to prevent such a mandate. IMO that line in the PoA does not mandate any religion.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: NightFlyerGTI

Originally posted by: AmusedOne

Originally posted by: NightFlyerGTI
Good reply, Dually and Dual700s- I agree.

How can you agree with both of them? Their viewpoints oppose each other.

Sorry, I misread the first one- the government shouldn't be ruling over this kind of thing whatsoever. Isn't that a violation of Church and State itself (oh no! not that! call in the National Guard!)?

No. It's the government maintaining it's neutrality.