Pledge of Allegiance Unconstitutional

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JoeBaD

Banned
May 24, 2000
822
0
0
Where did all the Liberals go?

Come on, can't you answer the question -

Why is there NO NATIONALLY ELECTED DEMOCRATE supporting this decision?

Do they all disagree with it or are they spineless?
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
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How does saying "under God" represent the state supporting a single religion?
WEhy did it need to be added in the first place? It was a knee Jerk reaction to the paranoia that was sweeping the Nation during the 1950's. Kind of like the paranoia that's sweeping the nation regarding the right to own Fire Arms. Maybe we should add a couple lines in the Second Ammendment saying that only those who have government approval should be able to own firearms?

Why is there NO NATIONALLY ELECTED DEMOCRATE supporting this decision?
Like their spineless Republican Brethren they are deathly afraid of the Religious Ridiculous err Right.
 

Michael1897

Golden Member
Apr 5, 2002
1,019
0
0
As long as there are tests in schools there will be prayer and God in schools

I remember when it was a special treat in elementary to be picked to go to the principles office and lead the pledge of allegiance over the school's PA system. man, those were the good old days.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0
The Pledge should be allowed, we just need to strike the "under God" reference that was added by paranoid Politicians in the 1950's.


I swear, Muslims, Christians and Jews are so fscking hot on forcing their religion on everybody. All three of those Mythologies are based on the Old Testament that was written by a bunch of superstitious Sheep Herders who spent their nights buggering their flocks... just like the Politicians of today are doing to their constituents
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,052
30
86
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Maybe we should add a couple lines in the Second Ammendment saying that only those who have government approval should be able to own firearms?
Red -- If we take your idea a littel further, you have just solved the gun control problem. Maybe we could add a couple lines in the Second Amendment saying only those who have approval from god should be able to own firearms. Then, since there is not god, no one could own guns.

Religious zealots claim the omnipotence of their so-called god. If that deity is so all-powerful, why are these people so insistant on forcing their views on those who don't agree by socially coercing their kids into either participating in their ooga-booga gibberish or facing social ostracization?

The religious RIGHT is WRONG! :disgust:

 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0
Supporting the inclusion of "Under God" in our POA is supporting the Legacy of fear that our country had in the 1950's which was one of the most pathetic times in all of American History. That phrase was born out of the Red Scare which was fueled by the Likes of Joe MaCarthy who would give Osama a good run for Fanatic of the Century.
 

Dually

Golden Member
Dec 20, 2000
1,628
0
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The "under God" part was added in the 1950's and it was pushed through Congress by Church organizations which shows the direct link to religion. I am a Christian but I understand that other religions or nonreligious people have a conflict and the seperation of Church and State is there so the government is religion neutral.
 

JoeBaD

Banned
May 24, 2000
822
0
0
All you liberals are going to be crying a river when this decision is overturned.

I'm not a deeply religious person. But when my kid's have to be swallow the Kwanzaa bullshait in school, they better be allowed Christmas.

Same goes for the pledge.

If you don't belive in God, tough shait for you. Plain and simple.

 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
10
81
heh and he just said on CNN he plans on filling a complaint on the fact "In god we trust" is on money.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0
If you don't belive in God, tough shait for you. Plain and simple.
I don't feel like honoring the Legacy of Fear that ran rampant through American Society in the 1950's. If you like pledging to the legacy of cowardice JoeBad tough shait,plain and simple
 

JoeBaD

Banned
May 24, 2000
822
0
0
Red,

The 50's are ancient history.

I really don't care what inspired the addition of "under God". I just think its bullshait for a court to order its removal based on the principle of seperation.


and by the way, EVERY nationally elected public official, so far, agrees. As well as, if you can trust the polls, the overwhelming majority of Americans.


 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0
The 50's are ancient history.

I really don't care what inspired the addition of "under God". I just think its bullshait for a court to order its removal based on the principle of seperation.


and by the way, EVERY nationally elected public official, so far, agrees. As well as, if you can trust the polls, the overwhelming majority of Americans.
And if the ruling is overturned the Legacy of Joe Macarthy will live on. Of course we can't expect our politicians to show courage in this situation because both the Republicans and the Democrats are led by those whose cowardice would make Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Paine hang their heads in shame.
 

ToBeMe

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2000
5,711
0
0
This ruling isn't going to last long people.........................

  • WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Members of the U.S. Congress on Thursday denounced a court decision that struck down recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance in schools.

    Senators packed their chamber for a rousing recitation of the pledge, with emphasis on the words, "one nation under God," while the House of Representatives worked on a resolution which would overturn the ruling.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
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Copied from a thread by Lunatik

Check out Neal Boortz He is a syndicated talkshow host out of Atlanta.He is Libertarian. He is a former lawyer. He is probably one of the sharpest minds around when it comes to debating our freedom and / or loss of it. It is interesting to read his response on the decision.
This excerpt if actually from the official legislative history of the 1954 Act:

?The inclusion of God in our pledge therefore would further acknowledge the dependence of our people and our Government upon the moral directions of the Creator. At the same time it would serve to deny the atheistic and materialistic concepts of communism with its attendant subservience of the individual.?

So ? it?s plain. The very purpose of the 1954 Act was to establish a religious element in the Pledge of Allegiance. The First Amendment to our Constitution says that this we do not do.

 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
0
0
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
The 50's are ancient history.

I really don't care what inspired the addition of "under God". I just think its bullshait for a court to order its removal based on the principle of seperation.


and by the way, EVERY nationally elected public official, so far, agrees. As well as, if you can trust the polls, the overwhelming majority of Americans.
And if the ruling is overturned the Legacy of Joe Macarthy will live on. Of course we can't expect our politicians to show courage in this situation because both the Republicans and the Democrats are led by those whose cowardice would make Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Paine hang their heads in shame.


Right now the CNN poll shows that by a 3 to 1 margin, Americans do not think the PoA is an unconstitutional endorsement of religion (~300K people).
Now, without getting into the validity of the poll argument, would someone like to tell me how the Congress is being cowardly and not doing what they are supposed to be doing, which is supporting the wishes of their constituency?
 

Linflas

Lifer
Jan 30, 2001
15,395
78
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Originally posted by: ToBeMe
This ruling isn't going to last long people.........................

  • WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Members of the U.S. Congress on Thursday denounced a court decision that struck down recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance in schools.

    Senators packed their chamber for a rousing recitation of the pledge, with emphasis on the words, "one nation under God," while the House of Representatives worked on a resolution which would overturn the ruling.

Got to love the fact that these cretins never miss an opportunity for some quality media time. No doubt they will resurect the highly important flag burning issue for another media fest as well.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
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Now, without getting into the validity of the poll argument, would someone like to tell me how the Congress is being cowardly and not doing what they are supposed to be doing, which is supporting the wishes of their constituency?
It takes courage to stand up for what is right despite it's unpopularity.
 

B00ne

Platinum Member
May 21, 2001
2,168
1
0
It is interesting to see that freedoms doesnt count much these days in the US. Damn even your right to kill ppl, errr I meant to bear arms seems more important to you than freedom . Freedom of belief (or disbelief) is part of freedom too i would say. Funny how you go around preaching freedom to the arabs and condemn their muslim states while u seem to wish for a religious state too. Or maybe this is just another form of American hypocricy that foreigners dont understand...
Btw, here we dont even have a true seperation of church and government (yeah i know this sux) but u still dont have to swear to god on the bible whatever, here u swear on the constitution....
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
0
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Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Now, without getting into the validity of the poll argument, would someone like to tell me how the Congress is being cowardly and not doing what they are supposed to be doing, which is supporting the wishes of their constituency?
It takes courage to stand up for what is right despite it's unpopularity.


Don't I know it. If a 150 million voters say something is right, is it right? Congress is there to do our bidding, not tell us what is right and wrong.
 

Furyline

Golden Member
Nov 1, 2001
1,212
0
0
Just curious, but what does Joe Macarthy and anti-communism have to do with Christianity? I'm sure it's a stupid question but I don't remember hearing stuff about that.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
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Just curious, but what does Joe Macarthy and anti-communism have to do with Christianity? I'm sure it's a stupid question but I don't remember hearing stuff about that.
The words "under God" in 1954 during the hieght of the Red Scare. They were added for this reason:
?The inclusion of God in our pledge therefore would further acknowledge the dependence of our people and our Government upon the moral directions of the Creator. At the same time it would serve to deny the atheistic and materialistic concepts of communism with its attendant subservience of the individual.?
Joseph MaCarthy was the Leading Antagonists of the Red Scare.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,001
14,528
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Originally posted by: montanafan
AmusedOne, it is sad to see that you're one of those types who just repeats any drivel he sees to support his argument without worrying about who it came from, the reasoning behind it, or the context in which it is said.

I should have known you'd go to one of the sites maintained by Jim Allison, Susan Batte, and Tom Peters. They're always the ones referred to about that quote because they're the only people with the gall to say Adams didn't utter it based on such flimsy reasoning. Here is what Jim Allison said about it on the link you provided:

"John Wingate Thornton, The Pulpit of the American Revolution 1860 (reprinted NY: Burt Franklin, 1860; 1970), p. XXIX.
We recently located this source and now suspect that John Quincy Adams never uttered these words. Here's what we found..."

..."Throughout this introduction, Thornton quotes various early Americans on the subject of religion. At least some of the quotations are footnoted, and all of them appear to be enclosed in quotation marks.
Sometimes portions of the quotations are italicized for emphasis

The words attributed to John Quincy Adams appear on page XXIX. None of these words are placed in quotation marks. Rather, the sentence reads as if Thornton is making his own conclusion about what John Quincy Adams believed. Thornton's sentence reads as follows:


The highest glory of the American Revolution, said John Quincy Adams, was this: it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principle of Christianity (italics in the original)...."

... "It is, of course, possible, that the printer made a mistake and forgot the quotation marks but, until somebody can locate the original source of the quote, there is no ground whatsoever to treat these words and Adams' own. The quote should be regarded as bogus."

Then AmusedOne, based on that, you come on here and say this:

Nice, but he never said that. Religious Right activist and "One Sided Wall" BSer David Barton made that up for his "America's Godly Heritage" video. It has no basis in fact, and the cite used turned out to be an author's own words, not those of Adams

You may be so easily swayed, but I prefer to think for myself and not take as gospel (no pun intended) the baseless suspicions of "an independent researcher from Virginia Beach".

Flimsy reasoning? The quote is bogas, the cite is non-existent. Get over it. Just because you make attacks to the man (in this case, the people who proved it was bogas) does not invalidate the fact that Barton is a repeated fraud.

Barton was obviously easily swayed. When caught in his obvious frauds, he no longer included the quotes, and has retracted almost as many quotes as he's allowed to remain published. He doesn't care, because the damage is done. The quotes live in the minds of mindless followers like you who believe if it is written, it must be true.

It's also good to know for future discussions that the context in which something is said is not important to you.

As for the Treaty with Tripoli, the context is not important here.


It isn't important. The fact that the entire US government would approve such wording in ANY context is important.


Hmmmmmm I wonder, do you think that if this does get to the US Supreme Court that the guy from California's lawyer will refuse to stand when the call to order is read? Or perhaps he'll just wait in another room? Or maybe he'll sue the Supreme Court for making him stand and listen to it?

Irrelevant. When you have something relevant, let me know.
 

JellyBaby

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2000
9,159
1
81
The anti-communism message was everywhere back then even in movies. The other week I watched "Green Beret" starring John Wayne. The scene where the special forces leaders were doing a demonstration for the press was very patriotic but also very anti-communist. The press would ask, "should we really be in Vietnam?" and they would counter with "The communist menace is coming you stupid idiot!!!!". It pervaded the national being.
 

bbkat

Senior member
Mar 7, 2001
825
0
0
Originally posted by: Isla
Just a quick comment on the parent who brought this to court in the first place:

Why not teach your kid that generally speaking, you will come across people every day who don't share your beliefs and it is best to just agree to disagree? Why teach your kids to sue every time something bothers you, like the words "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegience? Aren't there better things to worry about these days?

Exactly!

This lawsuit epitomizes the pussification of America. "McDonalds didn't warn me that the coffee was hot", "My son should be allowed to run for Prom Queen", "My fat daughter was discriminated against in cheerleader tryouts". People can debate religious/political beliefs for their entire life for all I care. But when the time and energy and resources of the government and judicial system are required to settle a dispute over such minutia, I am sickened.
 
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