Points from Obama's speech

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: waggy
and the "death panals" were not even what Oregon was doing. it was giving people who are going to die end of life counceling etc. that is good. People should be able to die with dignity

Incorrect. That was part of it, yes, but not all of the discussion.

Again, can we please get back on topic and discuss Obamas assertion of "scare tactics" and then have him deliver a speech filled with "scare tactics"?

Paranoid delusional discussions, again? Did not know this was where the fantasy topics were posted.

 

[dahunan]

threads like this make me wish there were Death Panels for the idiots that think there are

 

[Duwelon]

At this rate, 2010 and 2012 will be "Anyone but liberals".

 

[Synomenon]

Originally posted by: halik
Wow so far it's right now... excellent speech imo.
I liked the shout out to McCain.

And yes if you choose not to carry insurance, you either A) need to pay in via fines etc. B) agree that hospitals don't have to take you w/o insurance.

So you don't get fined until you show up at an ER and you tell them you don't have insurance? Where can I get a form for B?

 

[evident]

Originally posted by: Duwelon
At this rate, 2010 and 2012 will be "Anyone but liberals".

why do you say that?

 

[Drako]

I just got home and watched the speech on youtube.

"We have pulled the economy back from the brink" in the first minute.

And then it gets worse from there. Oh well, we have another 3 years of this BS.

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: GrumpyMan
I was hoping Obama would announce that he was going to cancel all of Congress's health care plan immediately and have them go back to their own states to try to get health insurance coverage for their loved ones. That might help them come to a compromise on something.

If liberals by and large weren't so fascist, they would have proposed this from the beginning. Democrats preech nothing short of a tyrranical takeover of America one pillar at a time. Healthcare is only one part, but this takeover needs to stop. Let the states manage their own people, as is factually constitutional.

I'll consider a Democrat's health insurance program if the congresscritters and the president are the first in line to sign up for it exclusively. Till then, they're nothing short of elitist and corrupt to the core.

 

[Ozoned]

BHO number 900 billion over 10 years to cover 30,000,000 uninsured.

$250.00 a month per uninsured.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Fail President Fails.

 

[Patranus]

Originally posted by: shira
Hahaha. You're a laugh riot.

So, let's get this straight: You have a serious medical condition and either try to get approval for expensive treatment, or you actually get treatment, and in either case your insurance company refuses to pay for it. So now either YOU'RE IN A HUGE FINANCIAL HOLE ALREADY or YOU'RE SICK RIGHT NOW, AT THIS MOMENT, AND YOU'RE INSURANCE COMPANY REFUSES TO PAY FOR TREATMENT!

But the Patranus solution? Go to ANOTHER insurance company and get a better plan.

Which conveniently ignores - you FVCKING TROLL IDIOT - THAT BECAUSE YOU NOW HAVE A CLEAR-AS-DAYLIGHT, PRE-EXISTING MEDICAL CONDITION YOU CANNOT POSSIBLY GET ANOTHER INSURANCE POLICY!!!!

So please just stop posting. Stop. Everything that comes off of your fingertips is poison. Everything is nonsense. You're a fool, a mental midgit, an intellectual void.

YOU are the mysterious "dark energy" that is causing the universe to expand at an accelerating rate BECAUSE EVERY ATOM IN THE UNIVERSE WANTS TO BE AS FAR FROM YOU AS POSSIBLE!

Mods: Please excuse my strong language above. But the truth IS a defense, isn't it?

You are doing exactly what Obama did in his speech (and what I was pointing out) by trying to take some moral authority on a subject where no moral authority exists. You are using "scare tactics" to try and illustrate a point while trying to argue against the use of "scare tactics".

Now, to respond to your hypothetical situation (I know I shouldn't respond to your trolling as you want me to respond) I am advocating reading the policy before you sign up for it so that you know what is and is not covered. If the policy doesn't meet your needs than you should not agree to it and shop for another policy.

If you wait to find out your full scope of coverage until after you need your policy, you are correct that you might be in a hole but that hole is hardly the fault of the insurance company. However, if this is the case, the hospital cannot legally require life saving care so a financial obligation is in no way related to a medical necessity.

What makes your argument intellectually dishonest is that you are equating the refusal of the insurance company to pay with a denial of life saving treatment. There are laws in the Unites State that require hospitals to provide life saving treatments regardless of (among other things) age, sex, religion, gender, or ability to pay.

The argument that it will cost more to get insurance if you have a pre existing condition is based on emotions and is intellectually void. The risk to the insurance pool is higher if you have a pre existing condition and the odds of you as an individual will require more dollars than someone else in the insurance pool is significantly higher. Thus, to offset that risk, you are charge higher premiums if you have a pre existing conditions. The same argument is used to justify higher rates for those with poor driving records.

See, my suggestion is that the individual be proactive in the procurement of their health insurance rather than leaving it up to chance. Then again, I guess if I don't agree that the government is the solution to all my problems and I think that personal responsibility is important, I clearly am a "mental midget".

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: dahunan
threads like this make me wish there were Death Panels for the idiots that think there are

As the French revolutionaries learned, one good use of the guillotine deserves another.

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: evident

Originally posted by: Duwelon
At this rate, 2010 and 2012 will be "Anyone but liberals".

why do you say that?

Seen any polls lately about the healthcare deform or Obama? That alone says a lot, nevermind the town halls that all the batty libs are so quick to discount as disingenuous, all the while SEIU and acorn a-holes are out in full force, bought out and paid for.

 

[Ozoned]

Homeless people everywhere will be discussing their new health insurance plans....

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: IsLNdbOi

Originally posted by: halik
Wow so far it's right now... excellent speech imo.
I liked the shout out to McCain.

And yes if you choose not to carry insurance, you either A) need to pay in via fines etc. B) agree that hospitals don't have to take you w/o insurance.

So you don't get fined until you show up at an ER and you tell them you don't have insurance? Where can I get a form for B?

The law on books says the hospitals have to take you, which is why you shouldn't be able to go w/o health insurance.

I don't think B is workable in this country, because if you show up at an ER with some sort of trauma and can't pay upfront, you're dead. How much surgery can you afford out of pocket, really?

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Ozoned
Homeless people everywhere will be discussing their new health insurance plans....

Aren't the subsidies income based ? That is you need income to get "fined" for not having insurance and then you get the tax credit.

Alternatively, you buy it out of pocket through the coops and then get those income based credits on your taxes.

Something tells me either one of those aren't something the homeless will be celebrating that...

 

[Fear No Evil]

Originally posted by: dahunan
threads like this make me wish there were Death Panels for the idiots that think there are

Implied violence?

Why not just post 'All people I disagree with should die'? Party of tolerence? :roll:

 

[xj0hnx]

Originally posted by: Duwelon
I'll consider a Democrat's health insurance program if the congresscritters and the president are the first in line to sign up for it exclusively. Till then, they're nothing short of elitist and corrupt to the core.

This.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Originally posted by: xj0hnx

Originally posted by: Duwelon
I'll consider a Democrat's health insurance program if the congresscritters and the president are the first in line to sign up for it exclusively. Till then, they're nothing short of elitist and corrupt to the core.

This.

/Thread.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: Brainonska511

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: Vic
DEATH PANELS!!!!!

How is that a scare tactic? We have seen death panels in the USA thanks to the great state of Oregon

Are you stupid?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,392962,00.html

Like I said, the USA has seen "death panels" thanks to the state of Oregon. If you would like to provide evidence to the contrary please do so.

Your anh idiot Patranus....
read the damn article.......no insurance company would cover a patient who is terminally ill.

You haven`t even read the article....

PORTLAND, Ore. ? Some terminally ill patients in Oregon who turned to their state for health care were denied treatment and offered doctor-assisted suicide instead, a proposal some experts have called a "chilling" corruption of medical ethics.

Mind you we are talking terminally ill with no hope of getting any better...

Since the spread of his prostate cancer, 53-year-old Randy Stroup of Dexter, Ore., has been in a fight for his life. Uninsured and unable to pay for expensive chemotherapy, he applied to Oregon's state-run health plan for help.
Whose fault is it that he was uninsured??

Lane Individual Practice Association (LIPA), which administers the Oregon Health Plan in Lane County, responded to Stroup's request with a letter saying the state would not cover Stroup's pricey treatment, but would pay for the cost of physician-assisted suicide.

"It dropped my chin to the floor," Stroup told FOX News. "[How could they] not pay for medication that would help my life, and yet offer to pay to end my life?"

The letter, which has been sent to other terminal patients throughout Oregon, follows guidelines established by the state legislature.

Oregon doesn't cover life-prolonging treatment unless there is better than a 5 percent chance it will help the patients live for five more years ? but it covers doctor-assisted suicide, defining it as a means of providing comfort, no different from hospice care or pain medication.

"It's chilling when you think about it," said Dr. William Toffler, a professor of family medicine at Oregon Health & Science University. "It absolutely conveys to the patient that continued living isn't worthwhile."

In issuing their latest Prioritized List of Health Services, state officials reported a new emphasis on preventive care and cost effectiveness. Dr. John Sattenspiel, LIPA's senior medical director, defended the measures.

"I have had patients who would consider knowing that this is part of that range of comfort care or palliative care services that are still available to them, they would be comforted by that," Sattenspiel said. "It really depends on the individual patient."

Toffler called it a callous practice that went against medical convention. "It corrupts the consistent medical ethic that has been in place for 2,000 years," he said. "It's absolutely breathtaking."

Oregon is the only state to legalize doctor-assisted suicide, which came into effect in 1997. Since that time, there have been 341 reported cases where doctors provided lethal doses of medicine to patients to end their lives.

Oregon voters have upheld the "Death with Dignity" law three times, and Sattenspiel says it is the state's duty to inform patients of all their legal options.

This was brought on by the voters NOT the state of Oregon....


For Stroup, however, suicide was never an option. He fought back, and the Oregon Health Plan eventually reversed its decision and is now paying for his chemotherapy, giving him hope he'll be around a little longer for his 80-year-old mother and five grandchildren.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: GrumpyMan
I was hoping Obama would announce that he was going to cancel all of Congress's health care plan immediately and have them go back to their own states to try to get health insurance coverage for their loved ones. That might help them come to a compromise on something.

If liberals by and large weren't so fascist, they would have proposed this from the beginning. Democrats preech nothing short of a tyrranical takeover of America one pillar at a time. Healthcare is only one part, but this takeover needs to stop. Let the states manage their own people, as is factually constitutional.

I'll consider a Democrat's health insurance program if the congresscritters and the president are the first in line to sign up for it exclusively. Till then, they're nothing short of elitist and corrupt to the core.

You really need to go learn about the Constitution.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: evident

Originally posted by: Duwelon
At this rate, 2010 and 2012 will be "Anyone but liberals".

why do you say that?

Fox News, Rush, Beck told him to.

 

[Patranus]

Might want to also read up on Barbara Wagner
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=5517492&page=1

I love the argument "well they are going to die anyways"...THAT IS THE POINT...we are all "going to die anyways" so where does the government draw the line when the are forced to ration care?

Ooops, broken hip? Well you are 80 years old. You just just live out the rest of your years in a wheel chair because a hip replacement isn't going to save your life and "you are going to die anyways"...

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Patranus
Might want to also read up on Barbara Wagner
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=5517492&page=1

I love the argument "well they are going to die anyways"...THAT IS THE POINT...we are all "going to die anyways" so where does the government draw the line when the are forced to ration care?

Ooops, broken hip? Well you are 80 years old. You just just live out the rest of your years in a wheel chair because a hip replacement isn't going to save your life and "you are going to die anyways"...

*waves at the funny communist*

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Patranus
Might want to also read up on Barbara Wagner
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=5517492&page=1

I love the argument "well they are going to die anyways"...THAT IS THE POINT...we are all "going to die anyways" so where does the government draw the line when the are forced to ration care?

Ooops, broken hip? Well you are 80 years old. You just just live out the rest of your years in a wheel chair because a hip replacement isn't going to save your life and "you are going to die anyways"...

*waves at the funny communist*

It's unlikely you're even denting him. If he actually had the capacity or desire to reason out the implications of what he writes, I doubt he would post half the things he does.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Patranus
Might want to also read up on Barbara Wagner
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=5517492&page=1

I love the argument "well they are going to die anyways"...THAT IS THE POINT...we are all "going to die anyways" so where does the government draw the line when the are forced to ration care?

Ooops, broken hip? Well you are 80 years old. You just just live out the rest of your years in a wheel chair because a hip replacement isn't going to save your life and "you are going to die anyways"...

*waves at the funny communist*

*waves at the troll*