Points from Obama's speech

[Elias824]

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
The idea sound good. but accord to Principle of Equivalent Trade, we can't gain something without paying the price. The price of the insurance premium WILL go up, there is no way around it.

Obama is promising more coverage for pretty much everyone, the money will have to come from somewhere. The question I have is, the hospitals get subsidized or eat the cost of people who cant pay for care. how much is that, if we are able to keep that to a minimum how much do we gain? How much really does checking for preventable conditions save us? is it enough to justify the extra coverage for everyone? The devil is in the details

The key word with all of this is Efficiency, making the system more efficient will help everyone. Just tossing the bill to someone else will no nothing, and probably just make things worse.

As far as scare tactics, everyone uses them. Its called being a politician. If we dont pass the bill, the world wont end health care will get more expensive but it probably will anyways. No obama is not going to use this bill to take over the U.S. Its the same thing all the dems were saying about king bush a few years ago. There are plenty of legit arguments to make for and against this bill lets not resort to paranoia and name calling. Oh and by the way, everyone of you is going to die.....eventually. Health care wont save you

 

[Xellos2099]

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
The idea sound good. but accord to Principle of Equivalent Trade, we can't gain something without paying the price. The price of the insurance premium WILL go up, there is no way around it.

Then that's an argument against the republican ideas too, and they say premiums will not go up under their plan. Either competition will lower premiums or it won't. Both reps and dems want competition and expanded coverage, just disagree on how to do it.

Yeah but you are talking about the competition that will NEVER run out of money.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Originally posted by: Elias824

Originally posted by: Xellos2099
The idea sound good. but accord to Principle of Equivalent Trade, we can't gain something without paying the price. The price of the insurance premium WILL go up, there is no way around it.

Obama is promising more coverage for pretty much everyone, the money will have to come from somewhere. The question I have is, the hospitals get subsidized or eat the cost of people who cant pay for care. how much is that, if we are able to keep that to a minimum how much do we gain? How much really does checking for preventable conditions save us? is it enough to justify the extra coverage for everyone? The devil is in the details

The key word with all of this is Efficiency, making the system more efficient will help everyone. Just tossing the bill to someone else will no nothing, and probably just make things worse.

As far as scare tactics, everyone uses them. Its called being a politician. If we dont pass the bill, the world wont end health care will get more expensive but it probably will anyways. No obama is not going to use this bill to take over the U.S. Its the same thing all the dems were saying about king bush a few years ago. There are plenty of legit arguments to make for and against this bill lets not resort to paranoia and name calling. Oh and by the way, everyone of you is going to die.....eventually. Health care wont save you

Everyone seems to overlook the mandate that everyone will now be required to have insurance, that means millions of people paying premiums (or their employer paying premiums or penalties) that aren't being paid now. IMO that is why mandating coverage is critical to the solution

1. Collect billions in new premium revenue
2. Eliminate or significantly reduce the uncovered care expenses now being eaten by hospitals and passed on to insurance cos who pass it on to premium payers
3. Significantly reduce the paperwork jungle created by insurance companies
4. Reduce catostrophic treatments by better use of preventative care

THAT is how we will pay for reform and expanded coverage

 

[Patranus]

Last night Obama said the following:
"I will not sign it if it add one dime to the deficit - now or in the future. Period. And to prove that I am serious, there will be a provision in this plan that requires us to come forward with more spending cuts if the savings we promise don't materialize"

Right now, not a single bill in any of the houses of congress would receive the presidents signature. It is simply a completely bogus claim. When Obama was outlining what he wanted in *his* legislation, he stated that it would not add a dime to the deficit yet it would cost upwards of a trillion dollars. Obama then went on to claim that the majority of this would be funded through cutting waste, fraud, and abuse.

Now, if there is all of this "waste, fraud, and abuse" waiting to be squeezed out, why hasn't he started already? Where is it? Why do you have to have a bill?

If Obama is telling us that Medicare is destroying the budget and the economy, he should have been on this day one, not 8 months in. Why doesn't he start today and show the American people over the next 6 months how the attack on "waste, fraud, and abuse" is going?

So, what the plan? The Democrats are simply going to start over?

 

[First]

^ Wow you're slow on the uptake. When did Obama say he was going to sign any of the current bills in either chamber when we know for a fact none of them are going to pass without changes? lmao.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Patranus
Last night Obama said the following:
"I will not sign it if it add one dime to the deficit - now or in the future. Period. And to prove that I am serious, there will be a provision in this plan that requires us to come forward with more spending cuts if the savings we promise don't materialize"

Right now, not a single bill in any of the houses of congress would receive the presidents signature. It is simply a completely bogus claim. When Obama was outlining what he wanted in *his* legislation, he stated that it would not add a dime to the deficit yet it would cost upwards of a trillion dollars. Obama then went on to claim that the majority of this would be funded through cutting waste, fraud, and abuse.

Now, if there is all of this "waste, fraud, and abuse" waiting to be squeezed out, why hasn't he started already? Where is it? Why do you have to have a bill?

If Obama is telling us that Medicare is destroying the budget and the economy, he should have been on this day one, not 8 months in. Why doesn't he start today and show the American people over the next 6 months how the attack on "waste, fraud, and abuse" is going?

So, what the plan? The Democrats are simply going to start over?

Why don't you f'ing READ the plan instead of spouting off like the f'ing idiot you are?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/health_care/plan/

Jesus, do you have to be spoon-fed everything? Typical GOP'er, full of dumb retarded questions and short of viable solutions.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: evident
dude, have you looked around at the malls and public areas near you? 80% of the people are fat, that's NOT a politically smart move to make :laugh:

Which is exactly what I said, thanks for making my point.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Patranus
Last night Obama said the following:
"I will not sign it if it add one dime to the deficit - now or in the future. Period. And to prove that I am serious, there will be a provision in this plan that requires us to come forward with more spending cuts if the savings we promise don't materialize"

Right now, not a single bill in any of the houses of congress would receive the presidents signature. It is simply a completely bogus claim. When Obama was outlining what he wanted in *his* legislation, he stated that it would not add a dime to the deficit yet it would cost upwards of a trillion dollars. Obama then went on to claim that the majority of this would be funded through cutting waste, fraud, and abuse.

Now, if there is all of this "waste, fraud, and abuse" waiting to be squeezed out, why hasn't he started already? Where is it? Why do you have to have a bill?

If Obama is telling us that Medicare is destroying the budget and the economy, he should have been on this day one, not 8 months in. Why doesn't he start today and show the American people over the next 6 months how the attack on "waste, fraud, and abuse" is going?

So, what the plan? The Democrats are simply going to start over?

Why don't you f'ing READ the plan instead of spouting off like the f'ing idiot you are?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/health_care/plan/

Jesus, do you have to be spoon-fed everything? Typical GOP'er, full of dumb retarded questions and short of viable solutions.

Yes. That is the plan. And anybody with a brain can see the end game of this, as stated by obama, pelosi, frank.

The end goal is single payer, government UHC. I stated this much in the OP. If that is what you want then so be it, just admit that's you want that.

 

[Chaotic42]

How about getting Americans to understand when to go to the ER, when to go to your regular doctor, when to go to the quick clinic, when to stay home and lay on the couch, and what is actually deserving of a law suit.

I think if you can get that down, medical costs will drop. Just IMO, but if I have to change my plan because of the government and their alternative isn't better (which I highly doubt it would be), I'm going to be pissed.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42
How about getting Americans to understand when to go to the ER, when to go to your regular doctor, when to go to the quick clinic, when to stay home and lay on the couch, and what is actually deserving of a law suit.

I think if you can get that down, medical costs will drop. Just IMO, but if I have to change my plan because of the government and their alternative isn't better (which I highly doubt it would be), I'm going to be pissed.

Medical costs aren't the problem. Insurance companies dropping coverage, refusing coverage, refusing claims, pre-existing conditions, all to pad their massive growth in profits are the problem.

We pay DOUBLE WHAT EVERYONE ELSE PAYS AND WE HAVE MILLIONS NOT EVEN COVERED!!!

 

[railer]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
This thread has been pretty interesting to read, the same 3 retards going back and forth patting each other on the back, saying nonsensical statemtents.

No kidding. I see the same three nutjobs giving a play by play of the speech, like they're the only ones who can see it...?

Gotta love the mindless, partisan fools.

 

[Starbuck1975]

If anything, I think his speech only muddled the debate further. Obama's did not aim his speech at Congress, but rather the American people. It might provide a temporary sense of calm, particularly amongst the critical demographic of independents he is starting to lose.

BUT

His speech simply reiterated that the status quo is not acceptable, but he did not provide direction or clarifications on what the future will hold...other than the lofty goal of providing affordable health care to every American while not simultaneously raising the deficit. The devil is in the details. Congress has yet to craft a bipartisan solution to achieve this noble yet elusive goal.

It almost sounded like he wants to hit the reset button, and that all options are on the table. Let's see how open minded Congress is to crafting a bill that serves America and not the special interests filling their campaign coffers.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: spidey07
6) Those making under 3-4 times poverty level and under will get public option for "free"

wtf 4x poverty level? for a family of 4 that is $88,200! if you need .gov assistance making $88,200 anywhere in the country you are doing it wrong.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: spidey07
6) Those making under 3-4 times poverty level and under will get public option for "free"

wtf 4x poverty level? for a family of 4 that is $88,200! if you need .gov assistance making $88,200 anywhere in the country you are doing it wrong.

I think it's only 3. So a family of 4 with a household income under 66,000. All paid for by you and me.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Patranus
Last night Obama said the following:
"I will not sign it if it add one dime to the deficit - now or in the future. Period. And to prove that I am serious, there will be a provision in this plan that requires us to come forward with more spending cuts if the savings we promise don't materialize"

Right now, not a single bill in any of the houses of congress would receive the presidents signature. It is simply a completely bogus claim. When Obama was outlining what he wanted in *his* legislation, he stated that it would not add a dime to the deficit yet it would cost upwards of a trillion dollars. Obama then went on to claim that the majority of this would be funded through cutting waste, fraud, and abuse.

Now, if there is all of this "waste, fraud, and abuse" waiting to be squeezed out, why hasn't he started already? Where is it? Why do you have to have a bill?

If Obama is telling us that Medicare is destroying the budget and the economy, he should have been on this day one, not 8 months in. Why doesn't he start today and show the American people over the next 6 months how the attack on "waste, fraud, and abuse" is going?

So, what the plan? The Democrats are simply going to start over?

Why don't you f'ing READ the plan instead of spouting off like the f'ing idiot you are?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/health_care/plan/

Jesus, do you have to be spoon-fed everything? Typical GOP'er, full of dumb retarded questions and short of viable solutions.

Yes. That is the plan. And anybody with a brain can see the end game of this, as stated by obama, pelosi, frank.

The end goal is single payer, government UHC. I stated this much in the OP. If that is what you want then so be it, just admit that's you want that.

Yes, single-payer healthcare is what I want to see. It's pointless to do healthcare reform without it. I say Obama and the Dems just ram UHC through and let's see what happens. The "debate" is getting tired, old and lame. And frankly it's not productive. It's just a bunch of morons on the right screaming bumpersticker political statements with no ideas whatsoever other than to keep things as fucked up and the same as they are right now while their elected officials in the GOP suck down donations from big pharma and healthcare corporations like they always have.

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
We pay DOUBLE WHAT EVERYONE ELSE PAYS AND WE HAVE MILLIONS NOT EVEN COVERED!!!

Probably all the money spent replacing caps lock keys.

No, I think I get it. I'm not saying that health insurance companies are out there to make everyone happy, just that we need to cut costs and apply some... pressure to the companies. Unfortunately the health insurance industry is what happens with our kind of economy.

I just don't want everyone to have equally crappy coverage so that we can say "Oh look, everyone's covered!"

I work hard and spend wisely. I *do not* want my level of coverage, style of living, or anything else to go down so that someone's political career can go up.

 

[Starbuck1975]

It's just a bunch of morons on the right screaming bumpersticker political statements with no ideas whatsoever other than to keep things as fucked up and the same as they are right now while their elected officials in the GOP suck down donations from big pharma and healthcare corporations like they always have.

Opposed to say the left, who are willing to push ANY health care bill, no matter how imperfect or unsustainable, through the system to save political face.

 

[Carmen813]

Also conveniently ignores the fact that young adults are just beginning their careers and often cannot afford health insurance, especially if they have any sort of debt from obtaining a college degree.

Obama came out in favor of ID checks for subsidies yesterday.

I think someone earlier mentioned that this would remove/illegalize incentives for healthy living. I'm fairly certain the bill still allows different premiums based on smoking and a few other health related activities.