Points from Obama's speech

[Balt]

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: Sclamoz
Your right, we do have death panels in this country.

http://www.reuters.com/article...2-Sep-2009+PRN20090902

dayam. Thanks for the link.

LOL - People bitch about their health insurance and then sit on their ass and don't change companies. If you are so unhappy with your current health insurance, CHANGE.

Again, the subject is GOVERNMENT "death panels" that do not exist. I couldn't care less if they exist in PRIVATE industry as they will only continue to exist as long as those companies have customers.

Yeah, just change your insurance provider after you've been diagnosed with cancer and denied coverage from your current provider. It's that simple. :roll:

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
What we saw tonight is the nice President Obama, but he still layed it out, Obama is not going to back down no matter what the republirats do.

Were it me, I would put to the opposition in no uncertain terms, either you get on the reform bandwagon, or I am going to force you to embrace the current system which stinks. No more getting away with simple torpedoes, I am going to force you to embrace and love the stinking system we have which is undefinable. And unless you are prepared to compare an either or plan, you are only making noises that shed heat but no light.

Its not really clear what Obama said in tonight's speech, like I say, we saw the nice Obama, but if some are so delusional as to think they can keep up obstructionist ism business as usual, why should Obama feel obligated to warn the GOP that they may be crusin for a brusin. If Obama starts playing hard ball, its a guarantee that the GOP will really not like it, but many American voters would be pleased to see more beanballed GOP idiots get what they richly deserve.

As it is, even the blue dog democrats are getting ready to move towards a final version, and if the GOP wants to contribute and take some credit, all well and fine, but if the GOP wants to only obstruct, the train to contribute will leave the station very soon, and if the GOP does not climb aboard, the Darwin award of final extinction may well be their reward.

Gop response

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Balt

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: Sclamoz
Your right, we do have death panels in this country.

http://www.reuters.com/article...2-Sep-2009+PRN20090902

dayam. Thanks for the link.

LOL - People bitch about their health insurance and then sit on their ass and don't change companies. If you are so unhappy with your current health insurance, CHANGE.

Again, the subject is GOVERNMENT "death panels" that do not exist. I couldn't care less if they exist in PRIVATE industry as they will only continue to exist as long as those companies have customers.

Yeah, just change your insurance provider after you've been diagnosed with cancer and denied coverage from your current provider. It's that simple. :roll:

My mom died of cancer and she did just such a thing.

What experience do you have with cancer patients?

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: Lemon law
What we saw tonight is the nice President Obama, but he still layed it out, Obama is not going to back down no matter what the republirats do.

Were it me, I would put to the opposition in no uncertain terms, either you get on the reform bandwagon, or I am going to force you to embrace the current system which stinks. No more getting away with simple torpedoes, I am going to force you to embrace and love the stinking system we have which is undefinable. And unless you are prepared to compare an either or plan, you are only making noises that shed heat but no light.

Its not really clear what Obama said in tonight's speech, like I say, we saw the nice Obama, but if some are so delusional as to think they can keep up obstructionist ism business as usual, why should Obama feel obligated to warn the GOP that they may be crusin for a brusin. If Obama starts playing hard ball, its a guarantee that the GOP will really not like it, but many American voters would be pleased to see more beanballed GOP idiots get what they richly deserve.

As it is, even the blue dog democrats are getting ready to move towards a final version, and if the GOP wants to contribute and take some credit, all well and fine, but if the GOP wants to only obstruct, the train to contribute will leave the station very soon, and if the GOP does not climb aboard, the Darwin award of final extinction may well be their reward.

Gop response

Funny how none of the major networks carried it live.

 

[Wreckem]

Obama, hit the nail on the head. Details need to be worked out.

Oh wait they cannot and still stick to everything he said. They have had 7 months to work out details, but instead give broad ranging promises THAT CANNOT be fulfilled.

Obama and every liberal board are living in fantasy land if you think everything Obama said can be achieved.

 

[TheAdvocate]

Originally posted by: dbk
Well, congressman Wilson (R-SC) sure did embarrass himself....

FAIL

OBAMA: "The reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally." One congressman, South Carolina Republican Joe Wilson, shouted "You lie!" from his seat in the House chamber when Obama made this assertion.

THE FACTS: The facts back up Obama. The House version of the health care bill explicitly prohibits spending any federal money to help illegal immigrants get health care coverage. Illegal immigrants could buy private health insurance, as many do now, but wouldn't get tax subsidies to help them. Still, Republicans say there are not sufficient citizenship verification requirements to ensure illegal immigrants are excluded from benefits they are not due.

Douchebag, and wrong.

I'm less and less convinced by Obama's math on how this is all going to be paid for, and the effect on our deficit, but I believe it's a necessary thing to get done, even if it means a tax increase (just don't ask me how I'm doing April 15th or you'll get a wall of me cursing).

But I have absolutely had it with the Republican posturing and misinformation campaign. It pisses me off even more because I think there are legitimate criticisms to be made of Obama's plan and his numbers (I'd like to see some measure of patient incentives in the plan), and instead we get bullshit like the above and death panels.

I'm so sick of rampant partisanship across the country. It's embarrassing to be American right now.

 

[syrillus]

Whoa, look at the giant circle-jerk in here!

 

[Patranus]

Originally posted by: Balt
Yeah, just change your insurance provider after you've been diagnosed with cancer and denied coverage from your current provider. It's that simple. :roll:

So it is the insurance companies fault you didn't read the extent of your coverage before you purchased it? It is the insurance companies fault you just ASSUMED that certain things were covered?

Unexpected things usually happen when you assume.


Again, can we please get back on topic and discuss Obamas assertion of "scare tactics" and then have him deliver a speech filled with "scare tactics"?

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: Brainonska511

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: Vic
DEATH PANELS!!!!!

How is that a scare tactic? We have seen death panels in the USA thanks to the great state of Oregon

Are you stupid?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,392962,00.html

Like I said, the USA has seen "death panels" thanks to the state of Oregon. If you would like to provide evidence to the contrary please do so.

ok call me a cold hearted asshole. but i agree with them. IF the procedure has LESS then %5 chance of extending a terminily ill patiants life then why do it? i also feel its wrong to give a 80+yr old a heart, liver, etc when a 30yr old family man may need it more.

you want that done? pay out of pocket.


and the "death panals" were not even what Oregon was doing. it was giving people who are going to die end of life counceling etc. that is good. People should be able to die with dignity

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: TheAdvocate

Originally posted by: dbk
Well, congressman Wilson (R-SC) sure did embarrass himself....

FAIL

OBAMA: "The reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally." One congressman, South Carolina Republican Joe Wilson, shouted "You lie!" from his seat in the House chamber when Obama made this assertion.

THE FACTS: The facts back up Obama. The House version of the health care bill explicitly prohibits spending any federal money to help illegal immigrants get health care coverage. Illegal immigrants could buy private health insurance, as many do now, but wouldn't get tax subsidies to help them. Still, Republicans say there are not sufficient citizenship verification requirements to ensure illegal immigrants are excluded from benefits they are not due.

Douchebag, and wrong.

I'm less and less convinced by Obama's math on how this is all going to be paid for, and the effect on our deficit, but I believe it's a necessary thing to get done, even if it means a tax increase (just don't ask me how I'm doing April 15th or you'll get a wall of me cursing).

But I have absolutely had it with the Republican posturing and misinformation campaign. It pisses me off even more because I think there are legitimate criticisms to be made of Obama's plan and his numbers (I'd like to see some measure of patient incentives in the plan), and instead we get bullshit like the above and death panels.

I'm so sick of rampant partisanship across the country. It's embarrassing to be American right now.

1. The Government is inefficent.
2. Medicare shows just how expensive UHC really is.
3. Its complete BS UHC or these proposals will save money.

There is a $5trillion defiect for Medicare over the next 21 years.
After 2030, the yearly deficit quickly moves towards a trillion a year.

Medicare has been the MOST ineffiecently run government program ever, and well I don't see any government run healthcare being any better. And while Obama says that this isnt a takeover, no one has said it is. They have called it what it is, and what many of the far left want it to be, and that is a precursor to single payer UHC.

If the government cannot keep medicare costs incheck how the hell do you honestly expect them to keep UHC in check? And no the public option doesnt do anything to help medicare costs. And yes ditching medicare advantage is cutting benefits, no matter what Obama's double speak is.

Obama is trying to appease his far left and his moderates, but unless one side of the other caves it is IMPOSSIBLE to do what he vaguely outlines(ie:says "we" are going to do this, but fails to say how exactly "we" are going to do it). Saying is one thing, actually accomplishing it is another.

 

[TheAdvocate]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: Lemon law
What we saw tonight is the nice President Obama, but he still layed it out, Obama is not going to back down no matter what the republirats do.

Were it me, I would put to the opposition in no uncertain terms, either you get on the reform bandwagon, or I am going to force you to embrace the current system which stinks. No more getting away with simple torpedoes, I am going to force you to embrace and love the stinking system we have which is undefinable. And unless you are prepared to compare an either or plan, you are only making noises that shed heat but no light.

Its not really clear what Obama said in tonight's speech, like I say, we saw the nice Obama, but if some are so delusional as to think they can keep up obstructionist ism business as usual, why should Obama feel obligated to warn the GOP that they may be crusin for a brusin. If Obama starts playing hard ball, its a guarantee that the GOP will really not like it, but many American voters would be pleased to see more beanballed GOP idiots get what they richly deserve.

As it is, even the blue dog democrats are getting ready to move towards a final version, and if the GOP wants to contribute and take some credit, all well and fine, but if the GOP wants to only obstruct, the train to contribute will leave the station very soon, and if the GOP does not climb aboard, the Darwin award of final extinction may well be their reward.

Gop response

Funny how none of the major networks carried it live.

Funny how I watched it live on a major network. Funnier still that it was given by a birther, and a co-sponsor of the Life Sustaining Treatment Preferences Act of 2009 which mandates that Medicare pay for the so called Death Panels. Hilarious irony.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: Balt
Yeah, just change your insurance provider after you've been diagnosed with cancer and denied coverage from your current provider. It's that simple. :roll:

So it is the insurance companies fault you didn't read the extent of your coverage before you purchased it? It is the insurance companies fault you just ASSUMED that certain things were covered?

Unexpected things usually happen when you assume.

ok..damn...YOU ARE A FUCKING RETARD. really YOU FUCKING SUCK.

damn boy. maybe Obama can have a "fucking clueless asshole" death panel for people like you.

 

[Patranus]

Originally posted by: waggy
and the "death panals" were not even what Oregon was doing. it was giving people who are going to die end of life counceling etc. that is good. People should be able to die with dignity

Incorrect. That was part of it, yes, but not all of the discussion.

Again, can we please get back on topic and discuss Obamas assertion of "scare tactics" and then have him deliver a speech filled with "scare tactics"?

 

[NeoV]

"It's his goals that should concern every single working American. You're gonna get fucked. Mark this thread.

Write down your income and your tax liability at the end of the year, print out your 1099s and state returns. No need to post it. Just write it down, record it, print it out.

Then in Y2010 do the same.
Y2011, do the same

Pay attention to when Obama's goals are made into law.

Write down your tax liability. Record it. Compare it to previous years. Pay attention.

This speech should be your battle cry. This is the call to action against tyranny. This is our call to action and we will not be defeated."

What should concern every single American are closed-minded people like yourself, patrANUS, BarryS, profJ - Obama could have come out tonight and said 'every single american citizen gets 1 million dollars, tax free, and it won't raise our debt a penny' - and the likes of you would still be bitching about it.

Nothing the 'other side' says is ever going to be correct or good enough for you - why bother trying to dispute any individual parts at this point?

 

[Ozoned]

If USA government gave every person without Health insurance $800.00 a month cash, how many of them would spend it on health insurance?

 

[evident]

cash 4 insurance?

 

[moparacer]

Never heard so much health care reform promised for less then 10 cents before!

You had to know when he couldn't get through the first minute, without mentioning the worst crisis we have ever seen, we have heard this before.....

 

[umbrella39]

Please don't feed the ex-banned trolls.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: BoberFett
If you people would all ignore Patranus' threads he would probably just go away.

No he wouldn't. I wonder how many banned accounts he/she already has, lol!

On his next round, he should pick the name "Dining Room Table" to save everybody time.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: miketheidiot


you don't want socialized medicine

So move.

meh, I'll keep using my representative gubment on a county/state/federal level instead to defeat this.

and i'll keep using mine to force it.


but seriously, go find a new country

He's probably a first generation American as it is. Pathetic.

 

[CrackRabbit]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: BoberFett
If you people would all ignore Patranus' threads he would probably just go away.

No he wouldn't. I wonder how many banned accounts he/she already has, lol!

On his next round, he should pick the name "Dining Room Table" to save everybody time.

Imfullofshit would fit much better.

 

[WHAMPOM]

UHC was paying doctors to counsel terminal patients and their family Vrs health insurance companies paying "experts" to find reasons to deny people life saving treatment. Now which is the death panel? Rightie mislabelling scare tactics again.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: Sclamoz
Your right, we do have death panels in this country.

http://www.reuters.com/article...2-Sep-2009+PRN20090902

dayam. Thanks for the link.

LOL - People bitch about their health insurance and then sit on their ass and don't change companies. If you are so unhappy with your current health insurance, CHANGE.

Hahaha. You're a laugh riot.

So, let's get this straight: You have a serious medical condition and either try to get approval for expensive treatment, or you actually get treatment, and in either case your insurance company refuses to pay for it. So now either YOU'RE IN A HUGE FINANCIAL HOLE ALREADY or YOU'RE SICK RIGHT NOW, AT THIS MOMENT, AND YOU'RE INSURANCE COMPANY REFUSES TO PAY FOR TREATMENT!

But the Patranus solution? Go to ANOTHER insurance company and get a better plan.

Which conveniently ignores - you FVCKING TROLL IDIOT - THAT BECAUSE YOU NOW HAVE A CLEAR-AS-DAYLIGHT, PRE-EXISTING MEDICAL CONDITION YOU CANNOT POSSIBLY GET ANOTHER INSURANCE POLICY!!!!

So please just stop posting. Stop. Everything that comes off of your fingertips is poison. Everything is nonsense. You're a fool, a mental midgit, an intellectual void.

YOU are the mysterious "dark energy" that is causing the universe to expand at an accelerating rate BECAUSE EVERY ATOM IN THE UNIVERSE WANTS TO BE AS FAR FROM YOU AS POSSIBLE!

Mods: Please excuse my strong language above. But the truth IS a defense, isn't it?

 

[CycloWizard]

The speech was all about what he wants to do, but almost nothing on how he's going to do it. I thought the Republicans were pretty childish in their behavior, but they do have a point: where is the bill detailing how this is going to be done? It's very well and good for me to say we're going to give everyone in the world all the hookers and blow they can handle and that Santa will pay for it, but in the end, the devil is in the details.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Ozoned
If USA government gave every person without Health insurance $800.00 a month cash, how many of them would spend it on health insurance?

Not many with the current system. I'm gonna assume you're making an argument that if people wanted to have health insurance, they'd buy it themselves.

The problem is

1) externalities due to lack of care over long term end up as costs for -care/-caid

2) the fact that hospitals cannot reject you from the ER allows for risk transfer and free lunch from the consumer. Saving money by not getting health insurance ends up coming from tax payers/currently insured when you go to the ER and not pay.

if you address this and/or mandate that people w/o insurance cannot use the ER, the outcome of your question would be different.

Also people on average are really stupid and their discount rate is high, plus you get the invincible factor of your people that skews their subjective probability of needing expensive coverage.