Pokerstars....rigged?

[purbeast0]

ive played pokerstars and partypoker, and i can tell you that if any of them are rigged its partypoker.

my brothers roomate got 5 full houses in a ROW on party poker. that just doesnt happen.

EDIT: Not to mention he lost 2 of those 5 hands to a better fullhouse and a 4 of a kind.

 

[bigalt]

i'll bet after you have played a large enough sample than you will see that it is not rigged at all

i'd be surprised if it wasn't rigged at all. but they only would have to rig it slightly to see strong results, considering how many hands they deal per day, not enough for any one person to see.

but it would seem to me that it would be bad business to either rig it a noticeable amount, or not at all.

 

[mchammer187]

Originally posted by: bigalt

i'll bet after you have played a large enough sample than you will see that it is not rigged at all

i'd be surprised if it wasn't rigged at all. but they only would have to rig it slightly to see strong results, considering how many hands they deal per day, not enough for any one person to see.

but it would seem to me that it would be bad business to either rig it a noticeable amount, or not at all.

there is also an independent agency that tests the strength of their random number generator

if their numbers deviate too much they will not get certified

take a coin flip a million times

if it is not 50% within .0001 than i'm sure it would not get certified

if it is 51% (seemingly slight) this is huge and there is no way they can slightly rig because 1% deviation over a sample of millions is huge

i'm 100% sure if you were to log every hand that is dealt on any given day it would conform to what it is expected because every hand ever dealt on the site is logged

it would not be that difficult to parse the data and analyze it

also you can have programs that track your hand history (ie every hand you have ever been dealt)

if something is way off after enough hands i'm sure that some player would have seen it as i'm sure you know some people (especially people that play for a living) would be able to see something is amiss

 

[Phoenix86]

I'd be more worried about 1 person playing 5/8 seats at one table...

 

[FoBoT]

i don't think any 'mainstream' sites are dishonest

 

[Phoenix86]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
i don't think any 'mainstream' sites are dishonest

Do you know why vegas is "strongly" regulated when it comes to games of chance? They are easy to cheat the user. I wouldn't place such faith in off-shore, unregulated operations.

 

[Supertastic Fool]

Originally posted by: Phoenix86

Originally posted by: FoBoT
i don't think any 'mainstream' sites are dishonest

Do you know why vegas is "strongly" regulated when it comes to games of chance? They are easy to cheat the user. I wouldn't place such faith in off-shore, unregulated operations.

All this might be true, it might be rigged somewhat but im making money so do i care? Learn to play the system, and if you ahve to fold good hands then do it.

 

[Kyteland]

Originally posted by: purbeast0
ive played pokerstars and partypoker, and i can tell you that if any of them are rigged its partypoker.

my brothers roomate got 5 full houses in a ROW on party poker. that just doesnt happen.

EDIT: Not to mention he lost 2 of those 5 hands to a better fullhouse and a 4 of a kind.

You have a poor grasp of probability theory.

 

[RadioHead84]

Originally posted by: mchammer187

Originally posted by: bigalt

i'll bet after you have played a large enough sample than you will see that it is not rigged at all

i'd be surprised if it wasn't rigged at all. but they only would have to rig it slightly to see strong results, considering how many hands they deal per day, not enough for any one person to see.

but it would seem to me that it would be bad business to either rig it a noticeable amount, or not at all.

there is also an independent agency that tests the strength of their random number generator

if their numbers deviate too much they will not get certified

take a coin flip a million times

if it is not 50% within .0001 than i'm sure it would not get certified

if it is 51% (seemingly slight) this is huge and there is no way they can slightly rig because 1% deviation over a sample of millions is huge

i'm 100% sure if you were to log every hand that is dealt on any given day it would conform to what it is expected because every hand ever dealt on the site is logged

it would not be that difficult to parse the data and analyze it

also you can have programs that track your hand history (ie every hand you have ever been dealt)

if something is way off after enough hands i'm sure that some player would have seen it as i'm sure you know some people (especially people that play for a living) would be able to see something is amiss

I dont think so. These things are off shore and while they say they are certified by some great company or whatever with a seal and everything does that really mean anything? All they would have to do is claim it to be a well know certification or something.

 

[shimsham]

ive just never trusted a computer program from a company that is making money on a rake. i may be paranoid, but theres just too many "good hands" when i play online (fake money) than i dont see when i play live. just doesnt seem right, but its probably just me.

 

[amoeba]

Originally posted by: shimsham
ive just never trusted a computer program from a company that is making money on a rake. i may be paranoid, but theres just too many "good hands" when i play online (fake money) than i dont see when i play live. just doesnt seem right, but its probably just me.

because they make so much off of fake money rakes right?

 

[shimsham]

Originally posted by: amoeba

Originally posted by: shimsham
ive just never trusted a computer program from a company that is making money on a rake. i may be paranoid, but theres just too many "good hands" when i play online (fake money) than i dont see when i play live. just doesnt seem right, but its probably just me.

because they make so much off of fake money rakes right?

no. but do you think they use different card generators for fake and money play?

 

[mchammer187]

Originally posted by: RadioHead84

Originally posted by: mchammer187

Originally posted by: bigalt

i'll bet after you have played a large enough sample than you will see that it is not rigged at all

i'd be surprised if it wasn't rigged at all. but they only would have to rig it slightly to see strong results, considering how many hands they deal per day, not enough for any one person to see.

but it would seem to me that it would be bad business to either rig it a noticeable amount, or not at all.

there is also an independent agency that tests the strength of their random number generator

if their numbers deviate too much they will not get certified

take a coin flip a million times

if it is not 50% within .0001 than i'm sure it would not get certified

if it is 51% (seemingly slight) this is huge and there is no way they can slightly rig because 1% deviation over a sample of millions is huge

i'm 100% sure if you were to log every hand that is dealt on any given day it would conform to what it is expected because every hand ever dealt on the site is logged

it would not be that difficult to parse the data and analyze it

also you can have programs that track your hand history (ie every hand you have ever been dealt)

if something is way off after enough hands i'm sure that some player would have seen it as i'm sure you know some people (especially people that play for a living) would be able to see something is amiss

I dont think so. These things are off shore and while they say they are certified by some great company or whatever with a seal and everything does that really mean anything? All they would have to do is claim it to be a well know certification or something.

the only thing is there is thousands of players and while a small portion of them actually keep track of their hands the ones that do are the only ones that play 1K+ hands a day


if some kind of fixing does not show up after say 100000 hands it is not going to show up

they only have something to lose by cheating there players because

1.) they earn tons of money by not cheating anyone
2.) they gain very little by rigging things "slightly"
3.) if they rigged it enough to where they would gain something it would be "extremely" obvious they were cheating people


i'm saying if 1% of the hands are rigged it will show up by anyone that logs their hands lets say 50000 or more

any gross statistical deviation will be detected

if you say they are rigging so little that it can't be detected i'm say that they are not rigging it at all

 

[3chordcharlie]

Random sequences rarely appear 'random enough' to casual observers; your odds of getting pocket aces are exactly the same every hand, regardless of what you had before.

Play long enough, and you or someone else is likely to have a short run of 'too many' pocket aces (or any other hand). Real money poker sites put a lot of effort in to validating random card generators. You just got lucky.

 

[amoeba]

Originally posted by: shimsham

Originally posted by: amoeba

Originally posted by: shimsham
ive just never trusted a computer program from a company that is making money on a rake. i may be paranoid, but theres just too many "good hands" when i play online (fake money) than i dont see when i play live. just doesnt seem right, but its probably just me.

because they make so much off of fake money rakes right?

no. but do you think they use different card generators for fake and money play?

I'm sure they don't but I seriously question the opinions of players who probably have played less than 10K hands online on the statistical probability of certain hands coming up.

 

[shimsham]

Originally posted by: amoeba

Originally posted by: shimsham

Originally posted by: amoeba

Originally posted by: shimsham
ive just never trusted a computer program from a company that is making money on a rake. i may be paranoid, but theres just too many "good hands" when i play online (fake money) than i dont see when i play live. just doesnt seem right, but its probably just me.

because they make so much off of fake money rakes right?

no. but do you think they use different card generators for fake and money play?

I'm sure they don't but I seriously question the opinions of players who probably have played less than 10K hands online on the statistical probability of certain hands coming up.

im sure ive logged way more than that. i dont know if they rig anything or not. it just seems the cards dont fall like they do in live games. its rare that just about everyone on a 10 person table has cards good enough to bet up the pot. every other hand is a straight or flush draw. ive been playing all kinds of cards for 20 years, and they just dont fall like that all the time in a live game, in my experience.

like i said, its probably just me. with so many hands being played at once the chances of seeing hands like that would increase, i guess. id rather put my money on a game where i can see the people and touch the cards.

 

[Regs]

Rigged online poker has been a conspiracy for .... well since it started.

 

[BaboonGuy]

Mathematically it's completely obvious that these sites are not rigged. However from another viewpoint it is quite easy to see why the sites are not rigged. Why rig? The only possible answer would be to generate more rake. How much more rake really are they going to generate? Not much I will tell you that, being that there is a cap on maximum rake taken per hand and it is not very high at all. So, would a large site that has tables running all the time constantly generating rake (such as pokerstars or party poker) risk their credibility (and losing their players as well as their steady cash flow profit) just to gain a small percentage more of the millions they are already making? No, it would be incredibly stupid to do. In fact online cardrooms spend a lot on maintaining the credibility and safety (collusion) of their games. When it comes to big players in the online poker world (such as party, prima, pokerstars, ultimatebet) one should have absolutely no fears that the games are rigged.

 

[bigalt]

Originally posted by: BaboonGuy
Mathematically it's completely obvious that these sites are not rigged. However from another viewpoint it is quite easy to see why the sites are not rigged. Why rig? The only possible answer would be to generate more rake. How much more rake really are they going to generate? Not much I will tell you that, being that there is a cap on maximum rake taken per hand and it is not very high at all. So, would a large site that has tables running all the time constantly generating rake (such as pokerstars or party poker) risk their credibility (and losing their players as well as their steady cash flow profit) just to gain a small percentage more of the millions they are already making? No, it would be incredibly stupid to do. In fact online cardrooms spend a lot on maintaining the credibility and safety (collusion) of their games. When it comes to big players in the online poker world (such as party, prima, pokerstars, ultimatebet) one should have absolutely no fears that the games are rigged.

but it's not completely obvious that the sites aren't rigged. there are like 10^40 possible combinations of dealt cards at a 10 man table. to do an audit that the cards are "random" (a questionable concept to begin with) in any given situation would be a friggin ridiculous task.

there could be several reasons for doing so:
For a place like party who has 2000 hands/minute, rigging it to create an average of .1 more cents/hand is a good 2 bucks a minute, which is probably enough to pay off akbar and parul and the rest of the customer support team.

Also, given that sites are pretty much the same in most respects, some players may be swayed to the site that has more "exciting" poker, and the high volume players will of course follow the sorts of players would base their decision on that.

I don't think any site would dare rig it in any player or group of players favor-- that sort of thing is easy to detect. But a slightly higher chance of that second flush card coming on the flop of the turn? Not out of the question, IMO.

Auditing firms, whatever. Until they legalize it in the US and have some kind of regulations like with slot machines, etc. I won't believe it.

That said, I still play a few thousand hands a week

 

[FoBoT]

http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/entdev/article.php/616221

 

[KingNothing]

Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt
Myself and some friends play poker at pokerstars, but more and more often it seems that things are rigged, or at the least the dealing/shuffling isn't done properly. Tonight I was playing an 18 person tourny and was dealt 5 sets of pocket aces, not to mention at least 3 sets of pocket 7s. That just doesn't happen...

Partial hand history...
...continued

This picture illustrates why your logic is not valid

 

[HonkeyDonk]

Originally posted by: shimsham

Originally posted by: amoeba

Originally posted by: shimsham

Originally posted by: amoeba

Originally posted by: shimsham
ive just never trusted a computer program from a company that is making money on a rake. i may be paranoid, but theres just too many "good hands" when i play online (fake money) than i dont see when i play live. just doesnt seem right, but its probably just me.

because they make so much off of fake money rakes right?

no. but do you think they use different card generators for fake and money play?

I'm sure they don't but I seriously question the opinions of players who probably have played less than 10K hands online on the statistical probability of certain hands coming up.

im sure ive logged way more than that. i dont know if they rig anything or not. it just seems the cards dont fall like they do in live games. its rare that just about everyone on a 10 person table has cards good enough to bet up the pot. every other hand is a straight or flush draw. ive been playing all kinds of cards for 20 years, and they just dont fall like that all the time in a live game, in my experience.

like i said, its probably just me. with so many hands being played at once the chances of seeing hands like that would increase, i guess. id rather put my money on a game where i can see the people and touch the cards.

well, what are you playing?

if it's fake money, then you will have more ppl playing each hand b/c it's fake money, they've got nothing to lose. When more ppl are in playing per hand, the chances of straights/flushes increase greatly.

Also, if you're talking about low limit real money tables, same effect. Like for $0.50/$1.00 limit tables, the blinds are so small that people will play hands that they normally wouldn't on higher limit tables. If blinds are a measly 50 cents, why not try your luck and see the flop with your 2-5 suited. Bam! flop comes and you have 2 diamonds on the board which helps that guy w/ 2-5d...where normally in a higher limit game he wouldn't play.

So that right there is one prime example of why you see so many straights/flushes. I played the low limit tables at party poker and i swear, theres like always 5+ ppl playing each hand and that's just wrong.

 

[shimsham]

Originally posted by: HonkeyDonk

Originally posted by: shimsham

Originally posted by: amoeba

Originally posted by: shimsham

Originally posted by: amoeba

Originally posted by: shimsham
ive just never trusted a computer program from a company that is making money on a rake. i may be paranoid, but theres just too many "good hands" when i play online (fake money) than i dont see when i play live. just doesnt seem right, but its probably just me.

because they make so much off of fake money rakes right?

no. but do you think they use different card generators for fake and money play?

I'm sure they don't but I seriously question the opinions of players who probably have played less than 10K hands online on the statistical probability of certain hands coming up.

im sure ive logged way more than that. i dont know if they rig anything or not. it just seems the cards dont fall like they do in live games. its rare that just about everyone on a 10 person table has cards good enough to bet up the pot. every other hand is a straight or flush draw. ive been playing all kinds of cards for 20 years, and they just dont fall like that all the time in a live game, in my experience.

like i said, its probably just me. with so many hands being played at once the chances of seeing hands like that would increase, i guess. id rather put my money on a game where i can see the people and touch the cards.

well, what are you playing?

if it's fake money, then you will have more ppl playing each hand b/c it's fake money, they've got nothing to lose. When more ppl are in playing per hand, the chances of straights/flushes increase greatly.

Also, if you're talking about low limit real money tables, same effect. Like for $0.50/$1.00 limit tables, the blinds are so small that people will play hands that they normally wouldn't on higher limit tables. If blinds are a measly 50 cents, why not try your luck and see the flop with your 2-5 suited. Bam! flop comes and you have 2 diamonds on the board which helps that guy w/ 2-5d...where normally in a higher limit game he wouldn't play.

So that right there is one prime example of why you see so many straights/flushes. I played the low limit tables at party poker and i swear, theres like always 5+ ppl playing each hand and that's just wrong.

i realize that. im talking more about the flops. off the top of my head id say about 70% has a straight or flush or set oppurtunity(pair on the board). just doesnt seem to fall like that with real cards.

 

[shimsham]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/entdev/article.php/616221

translation for the ignorant ones (me)?

 

[FoBoT]

it just explains some of the theory behind good/bad shuffling algorithms and compares shuffling to cyrptography

also talks a little about other aspects of poker security.