Poland is going DOWN

[sammyunltd]

Russia could strike Poland over U.S. shield: report

MOSCOW (Reuters) - A top Russian general on Friday said Poland's deal with the United States to set up parts of a missile defense shield on Polish territory lays it open to a possible military strike, a Russian news agency reported. Col-General Anatoliy Nogovitsyn, deputy chief of the general staff, told Interfax that Russian military doctrine would allow for a possible nuclear strike. Poland agreed on Thursday to host elements of a U.S. global anti-missile system after Washington agreed to boost Poland's own military air defenses. "The USA is engaged in an anti-missile defense for its own government, and not for Poland. And Poland, in deploying (elements of the system) opens itself to a military strike. That is 100 percent," Interfax quoted Nogovitsyn as saying.

http://www.reuters.com/article...e/idUSLF16791020080816

Please add your own commentary when posting links and exerpts from articles.


AnandTech Senior Moderator
Compuwiz1

 

[Brainonska511]

So Russia wants to get in a shooting war with NATO.....

 

[sammyunltd]

Russia wins....

Russia will get help from China, Iran and all Arab States. At the same time, Arab States will cut the West's supplies in oil.

Western World will be owned by the East (Russia, China, Middle East).

 

[nageov3t]

yes... if there's one thing middle eastern states love, it's the soviet army.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: loki8481
yes... if there's one thing middle eastern states love, it's the soviet army.

Psssst...there's no more Soviet Union thus no more Soviet Army.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: loki8481
yes... if there's one thing middle eastern states love, it's the soviet army.

Psssst...there's no more Soviet Union thus no more Soviet Army.

and what better way to prove that than helping Russia reform it.

edit: it just seems like a hell of a leap to make to think that the major middle eastern states would align with Russia and destroy their profits. or that Russia is prepared to go to war with nato, for that matter.

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: loki8481
yes... if there's one thing middle eastern states love, it's the soviet army.

Psssst...there's no more Soviet Union thus no more Soviet Army.

Reminds me of that Simpsons episode where Homer accidently sails a sub into Russian water. At the UN, the US diplomat says something like "but you're no longer the Soviet Union" and the Russian diplomat says "That's what we wanted you to think." And you then have a scene where a cute little parade just folds into tanks driving through Moscow, etc...

 

[K1052]

The Russians aren't going to attack Poland, this is just bluster. Attacking a NATO nation without provocation would be an insane risk because of how quickly things could escalate out of all control.

Nor are the Chinese (who don't trust the Russians either) going to come in on their side. If anything China would make a territory grab if a war broke out and Russia is too busy elsewhere to do anything about it.

 

[Brovane]

Russia isn't going to launch a nuclear strike on Poland over a ABM shield. This is a lot of bluster on the Russian part. Also if Russian Launches at Poland the US will launch at Russia and then everyone loses as the missiles start flying.

 

[badkarma1399]

All Russia is saying is that if a conflict were to arise between the US and itself, then Poland would be a target due to the American installations there. Well no shit Sherlock. Poland would be a target for Russia whether or not the missile defense system was there, just like they have always been.

Russia's words have no substance. Their military is antiquated, their largely outgunned, and China and the Arab states are as likely to come to their aid as they are to ours. This game of nuclear chicken is tiresome.

 

[jjones]

This is not even bluster. It's just pointing out the obvious that Poland will now be on a list of first strike targets for Russia. BFD.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: sammyunltd
Russia wins....

Russia will get help from China, Iran and all Arab States. At the same time, Arab States will cut the West's supplies in oil.

Western World will be owned by the East (Russia, China, Middle East).

lol.

1. The ME follows money, not politics. Iran might go to Russia, but Kuwait, UAE, Iraq, and SA would stay with the US.

2. Russia's military is decrepit. They can barely fly half of their fighters, their pilots barely get enough training. Their army is largely rusting and their navy is a specter of its former self. Who knows about their rocket forces, but reports are that many missiles are mouldering in their silos and on their trucks.

3. Even if the ME and Russia entered into a Total War with the US, they wouldn't last long. Sure, we've been fucking around with A-Q in Iraq, but that's only because we want to be diplomatic with Pakistan and Iran. That'd stop immediately and we'd crush whoever stood in our way.

Sure, China has a big army, but they have no way of moving it beyond their boarders. Their airforce may be impressive on paper, but in reality, it'd offer no match to ours.

This wouldn't go nuclear because everybody would lose, MAD still applies.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

The US and EU aren't going to fight WWIII over Georgia, but they will fight it over Poland. Georgia has never been part of Europe, whereas Poland always has been (or at least for the past 1000+ years).

And whoever tossed China in there is just wrong. China has no force projection capabilities to speak of, and therefore, it is just a regional power that is incapable of fighting a war in Europe.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: sammyunltd
Russia wins....

Russia will get help from China, Iran and all Arab States. At the same time, Arab States will cut the West's supplies in oil.

Western World will be owned by the East (Russia, China, Middle East).

^ I call BS on that.

And Great G@d D@mn! Boy, would GWB (and Israel) love to see Iran run to Russia's side in any such conflict (which isn't gonna happen). No way IMO would Iran dare do such a thing, why give everyone the reason to blow them and their suspected nuke program into oblivion?

BTW: I don't see how the Arab states could cut OUR oil supplies without cutting everyone elses' as well (Its a world market). Not to mention that would be cutting their own financial throats. And if they tried that China would be mad as h#ll, as our economy goes, so goes theirs. Who the heck would they export products to?

Haha, ridiculous.

Fern

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: sammyunltd
Russia wins....

Russia will get help from China, Iran and all Arab States. At the same time, Arab States will cut the West's supplies in oil.

Western World will be owned by the East (Russia, China, Middle East).

None of the countries you listed, except Russia, has the ability to project force except for ICBMs, and most of them can't even do that. Therefore, they might be able to "attack" Poland, but they can't fight a "war" with it as they have no way to reach it with an army. So the worst case scenario is, they fire off some missiles and then sit around waiting for us to respond with our own missiles, and then invade their countries.

Beyond that, the Russians could invade Poland if they really wanted to, but of the countries between them, only Belarus is a sure thing for allowing Russian forces to pass through. The Baltic States would certainly fight, and Ukraine is friendly with the EU, NATO, Poland, and Georgia. So chances are, if the Russians reached Poland, they'd get the shit kicked out of them by a massive coalition of the US and nearly every single country on the European continent, along with a healthy smorgasbord of former Soviet satellites with their own bones to pick.

So your entire scenario is pure fantasy.

 

[lupi]

Yeah, another repost thread.

 

[waggy]

heh i think sammyunltd got pretty owned in this thread.


looks like Russia is trying to relive its glorious past!

 

[Atreus21]

Dude, anyone who gets in a straight-up, toe to toe war with us is screwed. The north vietnamese and iraqis know that very well.

 

[StageLeft]

Russia will get help from China, Iran and all Arab States

China is the only one you mentioned with any kind of military force worthy of respect and China would do nothing of the sort. No country would; they'd have nothing to gain from going down in flames with a destroyed Russia.

Russia will not strike at Poland with nukes over housing these. It will sit and be pissed and that's it. I don't really blame it of course. This shield CERTAINLY has the potential to expand, in time, to something that could seriously compromise Russia's defense. maybe not now or next year but 10-20 years down the line, certainly. I have no surprise at all that they don't want it around.

If you know what energy it takes to create an ICBM with an actual nuclear warhead and the energy it takes to, assuming the defense shield actually worked, put in some interceptor rockets, as long as their hit rates were half decent they could vastly outnumber any country's ICBM force in no time.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Atreus21
Dude, anyone who gets in a straight-up, toe to toe war with us is screwed. The north vietnamese and iraqis know that very well.

i don't see a straight up war happening again. countries have found you do better against us with tactics like that are h appening in Iraq

 

[manowar821]

You know what would make Russia happy and friendly with us? Not building an ICBM shield next door to them.

 

[sammyunltd]

Originally posted by: waggy
heh i think sammyunltd got pretty owned in this thread.

Not at all, man.

Seriously, looking at the USA's past three big wars, Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam, its power is widely overstated. Not only are the other countries (China and Russia and others) catching the US in terms of technology (see China's newest fighters and submarines) but they greatly outnumber the USA (provided Putin imposes conscription, and that may work over there...). Furthermore, Europe is pretty small whereas China and Russia are two of the biggest countries and so far, every power that has tried to take down Russia couldn't (France - Napoleon and Nazis - Hitler) manage it.

The USA proved to the world that their logistic is flawed, by the number of casualties, by their difficulty to crush the resistance in Iraq and Afghanistan, by their costly technology failing to "produce" (ie. many $2B B-2 crashing, etc.). Their soldiers are badly trained (widely known, they take any "volunteer" and not the best of the best) and the infantry is not well equipped (M16 sucks).

As for the Arab States, they might as well join Russia and kick out the "infidels" from their holy soil (i.e. USA's bases in Saudi Arabia). So, they can cut off the USA and Europe's supplies in oil (easy to do, stop sending cargos to their ports..., as easy as that). So, Russia can still have some and China as well.

Furthermore, China, to help Russia and also gain from a weakened West, will sell its US Gov't Bonds to crush the US currency for good. Oil shortages will cause its price to dramatically increase... and on and on.

It is possible..

 

[nageov3t]

why would China align with Russia and why would China want to crush the US economy? just take a look at all the "made in china" stuff that fills up every US department store.

 

[StageLeft]

Your example of a crashed B2 is silly, these things happen all the time. I can find endless vids of Russian military craft crashing.

Saying the US is overstated because of Iraq is like saying Germany was overstated in WWII because it couldn't fully crush the underground resistance. The US never, ever had a problem against Iraq's military; it was more a training exercise than anything else. Its problem is in controlling the local population, something an invading force often has to worry about, but is a non-issue if a country is trying to defend itself.

China has quantity over quality. How would they move those troops around? How would Russia? US' navy is eons beyond either of those countries in navy and air force, both key parts of the equation.

Their soldiers are badly trained (widely known, they take any "volunteer" and not the best of the best)

US soldiers badly trained compared to other countries? You clearly don't know jack squat about the US military (which spends way more per troop on training than most if not all other countries and superiorly equips them as well) and news flash: any country with a volunteer army is likely to have it more likely filled with mechanics' kids than law students.

China could not do as you say because they need the US more than the US needs China.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Your example of a crashed B2 is silly, these things happen all the time. I can find endless vids of Russian military craft crashing.

Saying the US is overstated because of Iraq is like saying Germany was overstated in WWII because it couldn't fully crush the underground resistance. The US never, ever had a problem against Iraq's military; it was more a training exercise than anything else. Its problem is in controlling the local population, something an invading force often has to worry about, but is a non-issue if a country is trying to defend itself.

China has quantity over quality. How would they move those troops around? How would Russia? US' navy is eons beyond either of those countries in navy and air force, both key parts of the equation.

Their soldiers are badly trained (widely known, they take any "volunteer" and not the best of the best)

US soldiers badly trained compared to other countries? You clearly don't know jack squat about the US military (which spends way more per troop on training than most if not all other countries and superiorly equips them as well) and news flash: any country with a volunteer army is likely to have it more likely filled with mechanics' kids than law students.

China could not do as you say because they need the US more than the US needs China.

Yes, to put this in perspective Russia operates one broke ass carrier that almost never leaves port because its to expensive to sortie and has never worked right. The US has 11 operational super carriers complete with battle groups. The USN would take the Russian navy apart in a couple days.