Polaris Refresh (RX 500 Series) Rumors

[Mopetar]

New poster's with shall we say "enthusiastic" comments come out of the woodwork.

That's one hell of a euphemism you've got there.

 

[cbn]

Not a terribly inspiring performance bump, but if the chips run at those clocks while drawing less power, I think it could be okay.

It would be nice if the AIB RX580s could get by with a single 6 pin.

 

[Snarf Snarf]

1080ti is a tad too late for the current market

The 1080ti is out for the 980ti owners that weren't buying a $600 1080 for 20% improvement. It's a very specifically targeted launch, and those of us sitting on our 980ti's were well aware there would be a cheaper Titan Pascal to upgrade to.

I get that you find the really technical inter-working's of AMD's GPU technology exciting, but engineering advantages for AMD haven't always turned into higher performance. The uarch is only one piece of a larger puzzle when it comes to performance that is tangible or empirically measurable. Developer relations (the Bethesda deal is a good start, AMD is pants in a lot of their games) that lead to shader intrinsic optimizations are going to make the biggest difference here. If Vega is in Xbox Scorpio that's a really good start. We can assume PS5 will probably be a Zen/Vega custom SoC, AMD can start the lobbying now to include Vega based optimizations in game engines that will be used in future games. These combined with an increased focus on low level API's are what AMD really need to start happening, and they need it today.

I hope Vega at least equals the 1080ti in performance, because I really would like to hop over to team red so I can enjoy the FreeSync price advantage. I'll be in the market for a 144Hz 1440p monitor with either a 1080ti or Vega 10 depending on which one suits my needs better this summer. I just don't share your level of optimism for Vega 10 smashing the 1080ti in outright performance. Stock vs stock if it equals the 1080ti I might consider it, but we know that 1080ti will come in custom flavors with 2GHz boost clocks guaranteed with minor overclocks.

 

[Mopetar]

It would be nice if the AIB RX580s could get by with a single 6 pin.

https://videocardz.com/67693/amd-radeon-rx-570-and-580-exposed

No idea if it's reliable, but seems like 8-pin for the 580.

I'm guessing efficiency hasn't improved a lot or AMD wants to push performance or allow for more OC assuming the cooling allows for it. The reference 480 had throttling problems or some of the cards did at any rate.

 

[Wall Street]

The RX 580s design with the 8-pin is strictly better.

With the 6-pin, the card pulls substantial power off the motherboard to get more than 75 watts. With the 8-pin, you can just run 100% of your vcore from the power connector and only use the motherboard for lower power ancillary voltages. Given two cards running at the same power, I would prefer the one that doesn't stress my motherboards power plane with excess power draw.

 

[SPBHM]

a shame they couldn't get faster memory for the rebranded cards, there are 1060s now with 9GHz memory and 1080s with 11GHz

 

[cbn]

With the 6-pin, the card pulls substantial power off the motherboard to get more than 75 watts.

The reference RX480 had that problem in the beginning. Then AMD fixed that with a driver update.

With that mentioned, was performance affected?

 

[SimianR]

I don't know what AMD could really do to sell people on Polaris rebrands in way that would wouldn't seem sort of misleading. Polaris wasn't launched that long ago, so bumping the clock speed slightly and adding an 8 pin connector doesn't seem like a massive change. There were some small complaints about noise and temperature on initial reviews, which seems like they could be rectified by improving the reference cooler which was described as "cheap" and insubstantial. Either way, I'm not sure improving the reference cooler and bumping the clocks are going to do much to convince people that the 580 is worthwhile over the competition or that it is drastically different from the existing 480's. The non-reference coolers already fixed many of these issues. The other problem is that unless AMD has really found a way to reach higher clocks on these chips, clocking them higher out of the box is going to limit the already very limited overclock headroom that the 480 had, which might disappoint potential owners. Which is sort on an unrelated note, the issue that the 1800X Ryzen chip runs into.

 

[SPBHM]

The reference RX480 had that problem in the beginning. Then AMD fixed that with a driver update.

With that mentioned, was performance affected?

performance didn't decrease but it still has high power draw on the slot and 6pin connector, higher than other cards;
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-radeon-rx-480-polaris-power-fix,4668.html

8 pin (or 2x6) is the correct choice for a 480.

 

[PPB]

Ref 480 6 pin was done with 3 12v wires and was 150w capable. Amd was just stupid enlugh to wire 3 main rail vrms to the socket and 3 to the peg connector, instead of a more sensible 4+2 segmentation

Sent from my XT1040 using Tapatalk

 

[crisium]

If they must rebrand, then 480/470 should become 570/560. If they get the reference cards done right, rebranding can be a good strategy. Let glorious big uncut Vega be called RX Vega, and cutdown and smaller Vegas can get 580, 585, 590.

But they now are damaging their own brand strength with this constant rebranding to the same performance tier of the next gen. What it must feel like to be the 1060, edging out or at least drawing even with 2 consecutive generations of x80 AMD cards.

At least the greatest sin of AMD rebranding is now dead: 7850->265->370 which was slower than a 270 (7870). Ugh. Shameful.

More disappointment comes from AMD's unwillingness to truly make the best out of Polaris 10. 9Gbps VRAM? No? Anyone? Oh, Nvidia raised their hand. And they are even willing to do so without rebranding? Yellow star sticker for you Nvidia. Although don't forget a big part of your grade for this semester is based on you calling the cutdown and full GP106 both GTX 1060 - your latest naming sin.

 

[Headfoot]

What they should do is put faster GDDR5 like nVidia is doing, that will actually make a difference

 

[poofyhairguy]

So basically if I overclock my 480 and 470 I get the new GPUs? Done deal.

 

[Qwertilot]

Well they do have a few obvious issues to fix too, like the PCIE slot thing and how very variable the quality of that initial batch of cards was so some suspicions of over volting etc

The 1080ti is out for the 980ti owners that weren't buying a $600 1080 for 20% improvement. It's a very specifically targeted launch, and those of us sitting on our 980ti's were well aware there would be a cheaper Titan Pascal to upgrade to.

It isn't even worth analysing that far really - it is/was pure and simply NV's annual upgrade cycle chuntering on its seemingly inevitable course. They'll do much the same with medium sized volta when that rolls round.

 

[w3rd]

I don't understand what you mean here. Why was the 1080Ti release 'too late for the current market'? Those who wanted extreme performance had already bought Titan Pascal; there were others who bought 1080s or 1070s depending on resolution. And now Nvidia releases the 1080Ti at a fairly decent price which beats Titan Pascal in many games. Who was the 1080Ti 'too late' for? The 1080Ti is almost constantly sold out in Europe...

Look, I try to be as fair and optimistic as the next guy. I wish that the highest end Vega would be out before the end of this year and stomp the 1080Ti. But I would not even bet on that happening, if the odds given to me were 1000:1 in favour of that happening.

If I was Nvidia I'd be happy with the 1080Ti release, see what Vega looks like when it comes out, and if the performance crown is threatened in any way, do any of the following:

(i) adjust pricing to remain competitive; and/or
(ii) try to push the Volta Titan out.

Nvidia is in a position now where it can 'rest on its heels' and see what AMD can do to respond to its dominant performance position. AMD has to react - and, depending how good that reaction is, Nvidia can respond as well.

Please don't misunderstand me - I want competition because I want to get the most for my money. But when we talk about optimism here I feel like I have very little reason to be as optimistic as you are.

Yes, the 1080ti is late to the market, not because NVidia, but because the market this shopping season is 4k. And Pascal is not a 4k chip.

I am buying a 1080ti to replace my 980 (non-ti), that I bought in desperation the day the Acer x34 came out. The 1080ti is the perfect compliment for 3440 x 1440.

But again, the 1080ti is going into an existing rig. If I were building a new rig based on Windows 10, then I would be future proofing and buying a 4k chip (Vega).

So, if you dont already have G-sync, there is zero point in buying a 1080ti right now, if you are building new. Might as well get a 4K card instead. I have had to wait for a high end card (the market nVidia serves) for almost 18 months now. And now there are 38" freesync monitors out (3840 x 1600), rendering my x34 pointless.

The 1080ti is the best NVidia has to offer in 2017. Still waiting on an MSI twinfrozr.

Sorry, wanted to clear up why I suggested it.



On topic: I think the respin of Polaris is for market grab prices. Think of a Radeon 580 @ $169...


You didn't seem to get the message last time. Quit going far afield on this, this is not a 1080ti discussion thread. You don't get to post whatever you want by tossing in a line about the Polaris respin.

AT Moderator ElFenix.

 

[Arachnotronic]

On topic: I think the respin of Polaris is for market grab prices. Think of a Radeon 580 @ $169...

Quite the opposite. The rebrand is designed to allow AMD and its partners to maintain selling prices by giving the perception of a "newer" architecture/GPU, even though it's the same thing more or less.

 

[crisium]

^Right, like with the 390 series selling for more than the discount 290 series.

Although, based on these rumours, the 570/580 is a joke compared to the 390 series revision. 390 series got higher clock speeds, faster VRAM, and double the VRAM; RX 580 is rumoured to get 1 of those things. 390 matched 290X thanks to these improvements; RX 570 isn't even clocked as fast as the 480 with more shaders, making it impossible to be as fast.

Also, 290 series originally competed with 780 series. While AMD's timing was terrible, the 390 series ended up competing with 980/970. There is sort of sense to the rebadging here. The RX 580 meanwhile would still compete with something called the GTX 1060.

All around, I highly disprove of this decision if the rumours are true.

 

[sm625]

You have to figure they've had another whole year with 14nm, they should be able to squeeze an average of 100MHz more from the process in that time. Anything less is going to be a disappointment. Same goes for VRAM. VRAM should be 10% faster for the same price vs a year ago.

 

[Insomniator]

Yes, the 1080ti is late to the market, not because NVidia, but because the market this shopping season is 4k. And Pascal is not a 4k chip.

I am buying a 1080ti to replace my 980 (non-ti), that I bought in desperation the day the Acer x34 came out. The 1080ti is the perfect compliment for 3440 x 1440.

But again, the 1080ti is going into an existing rig. If I were building a new rig based on Windows 10, then I would be future proofing and buying a 4k chip (Vega).

So, if you dont already have G-sync, there is zero point in buying a 1080ti right now, if you are building new. Might as well get a 4K card instead. I have had to wait for a high end card (the market nVidia serves) for almost 18 months now. And now there are 38" freesync monitors out (3840 x 1600), rendering my x34 pointless.

The 1080ti is the best NVidia has to offer in 2017. Still waiting on an MSI twinfrozr.

Sorry, wanted to clear up why I suggested it.



On topic: I think the respin of Polaris is for market grab prices. Think of a Radeon 580 @ $169...


You didn't seem to get the message last time. Quit going far afield on this, this is not a 1080ti discussion thread. You don't get to post whatever you want by tossing in a line about the Polaris respin.

AT Moderator ElFenix.

Not sure I should even bother responding to you but why do you think Vega will be a '4k' chip? Especially if you think for some reason the 1080ti is not? What makes your monitor pointless?

Am i feeding a troll here? Sorry if so.

After all the warnings in this thread I have no idea what made you think this was the place to discuss the 1080ti and Vega and their respective market positions.

AT Moderator ElFenix

 

[Head1985]

You have to figure they've had another whole year with 14nm, they should be able to squeeze an average of 100MHz more from the process in that time. Anything less is going to be a disappointment. Same goes for VRAM. VRAM should be 10% faster for the same price vs a year ago.

You cant do that without money.

 

[Mopetar]

You have to figure they've had another whole year with 14nm, they should be able to squeeze an average of 100MHz more from the process in that time. Anything less is going to be a disappointment. Same goes for VRAM. VRAM should be 10% faster for the same price vs a year ago.

Has anyone done any testing on Polaris to determine how much a memory OC benefits performance for newer games and drivers? It won't be an issue with the 580 if it has an 8-pin power connector, but with a 480 it seems like any headroom you had should be spent on the core clock in most cases.

In the early benchmarks between the 4GB (7Gpbs memory) and 8 GB (8 Gbps memory) unless the game needed more than 4 GB of memory, the ~14% faster memory clock speeds of the 8 GB 480 didn't appear to make more than a few % difference in games.

 

[w3rd]

Quite the opposite. The rebrand is designed to allow AMD and its partners to maintain selling prices by giving the perception of a "newer" architecture/GPU, even though it's the same thing more or less.

That is where our speculation differs.

AMD this holiday shopping season is going to push Nvidia out of the market. Doing exactly as I have suggested. That the re-spin is for none other than underselling the G-Force in every segment.
@1080p
@1440p

The idea is, get EVERYONE on AMD drivers.


(Vega will shore up the high-end of the market @4k)

 

[VirtualLarry]

AMD this holiday shopping season is going to push Nvidia out of the market.

That seems a bit... wildly optimistic?

 

[Mopetar]

Wildly optimistic is an understatement. Its like some kind of bad fan-fiction where NVidia is the evil villain and gets easily thwarted by the hero AMD who makes no missteps.

If AMD cut prices on the 500 series (which they won't) NVidia would respond and right now they're better able to weather an extreme price war. The 500 series will maintain the original price points and remaining 400 stock will get slight discounts.

That might make the 480 the best deal as the rumors right now don't point to the 580 being a significant upgrade. Maybe if it has a much lower power draw even with the higher clock rate and 8-pin power to support more OC headroom, but that's being generous.

 

[lobz]

all of you who are trashing this polaris 'refresh' and the fact that amd decided to still call them 570/580 seem to forget what it really indicates: even vega 11 will be significantly faster (i.e. at least a category higher), than the 580. And it's not too far fetched to safely assume, that both vega 11 and big bro 10 will have fully enabled and cut versions too. At least it indicates this to me so I, for one, am absolutely fine with the new 580, it'll still be a great card, especially for those who purchase it for 2-3 years. And then let us all welcome the VEGAs asap