Polaris Refresh (RX 500 Series) Rumors

[leoneazzurro]

I really dont know what the hell they are doing for last entire year.They have so much time to do something but they just add 5% oc and call it rx580.
I really miss ATI.

Boost clock is 5% but base is 12%, and it seems Nvidia is not announcing yet a successor to the 1060. So it seems no need to compete further yet.
Also, they were working on Ryzen and Vega, so maybe they were not completely idle weren't they?

 

[Qwertilot]

As a company far from totally idle, and you really do have to be aware that AMD are badly resource constrained at the moment. It might improve in a few years if Ryzen takes off, otherwise not.

It does also - from the rather larger 56/70 uplift - look like there's quite possibly some sort of process induced clock wall past which 4/580 power consumption would explode.

 

[raghu78]

The base clock improvement for Rx 570 is very impressive and quite good even for Rx 580. This means we will get better sustained performance especially for long periods of gaming. Hopefully AMD / GF can deliver lower power consumption as that would make perf/watt go up quite a bit. If power consumption is higher than Rx 400 series than its not so good.

 

[Vesku]

8 pin on 580 would suggest no major improvements in power curve.

 

[nathanddrews]

RX 560 vs 460:
1024 cores vs 896 (+14.29%)
64 vs 56 TMUs (+14.29%)
Same # of ROPs
Base clock 1175 vs 1090 (+7.80%)
Boost clock 1257 vs 1200 (+4.75%)
Memory only 4GB, no "up to 4GB"

And a new RX 550 which has unconfirmed specs.

Also, the slides claim "3rd Gen FinFET 14" whatever that means. As well as "enhanced idle & multi-monitor efficiency"

HEVC H.265 4K encode/decode being touted as well.

These are the two refreshes that interest me most. If the 560 come in at or below the 460 MSRP, then it will be a great value. I'm really hoping the gimped 550 launches in that $60-80 range and doesn't run into any PCIe power issues.

I don't want to see them touting HEVC, we already have that. I want to see some G.D. commitment to HDCP and PlayReady support so I can build some proper 4K HTPCs.

 

[Stormflux]

People going nuts over nVidias latest rebrand. When AMD does it, it's terrible... I guess it's a matter of price and perspective.

 

[iBoMbY]

The first slide says "3rd Gen FinFET 14" btw:

So maybe not a 100% rebrand ...

 

[Arachnotronic]

People going nuts over nVidias latest rebrand. When AMD does it, it's terrible... I guess it's a matter of price and perspective.

What rebrand? NVIDIA is continuing to sell 10-series cards, no rebrands.

 

[ElFenix]

What rebrand? NVIDIA is continuing to sell 10-series cards, no rebrands.

geforce 3ti, duh

Someone explain to me the difference between rebrand and refresh. Is the rx570 and 580 a rebrand or refresh?

yes.

 

[Atreidin]

I think it's "refresh" if you are positive or indifferent and "rebrand" if you are bitter.

 

[Stormflux]

What rebrand? NVIDIA is continuing to sell 10-series cards, no rebrands.

1080Ti is a rebranded Titan X... if we're using the same metrics laid out by some being applied to the AMD cards.
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2877/geforce-gtx-1080-ti
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2863/titan-x-pascal

I personally don't have a problem with the situation. But it seems people can and will skew facts to suit their agenda, such as the above. This refresh/rebrand is done in a plethora of markets.

What is important to see with the new cards is if it's a respin and if any power characteristics change, allowing for better overclocks.

 

[crisium]

Short summary for people:
RX 580 vs 480:
Boost clock 1340 vs 1266 (+5.85%)
No change in memory clock

RX 570 vs 470:
Boost clock 1244 vs 1206 (+3.15%)
Memory clock 7000 vs 6600 (+6.06%)

Also, the slides claim "3rd Gen FinFET 14" whatever that means. As well as "enhanced idle & multi-monitor efficiency"

HEVC H.265 4K encode/decode being touted as well.

We'll see about any efficiency changes. Anyway, woefully disappointing coming from the Hawaii rebrand.

390X vs 290X:
1050MHz vs 1000MHz (+5%)
6000 vs 5000 memory clock (+20%)
8GB vs 4GB (+100%, although there were rare and pricey 8GB 290X)

390 vs 290:
1000MHz vs 947MHz (+5.59%)
6000 vs 5000 memory clock (+20%)
8GB vs 4GB (+100%)

At least if AMD made 9 Gbps standard on the 580 it could claim to be reasonably close to their last major rebrand. Heck, 8 Gbps standard on the 570 would have matched the relative increase that 390 saw. But they didn't do these changes. Underwhelming, especially with many 470s already with 7 Gbps and factory overclocks.

The efficiency changes could matter, but they don't look to be for gaming. AMD GPUs have high multi-monitor wattage, so this could nice though. Hopefully they also tackle blu-ray playback wattage, which is high (for the 2 people that watch blu-rays through their PC).

No complaints about 560, btw. Nice to make 16CU and 4GB standard. I assume this means it'll be 1x6pin standard, but that's fine since the new 550 will be for the low power, entry market.

 

[mohit9206]

Yeah this is basically the same situation as the R9 390 and 390X.
Both those cards were very terrible value at their launch price which made people buy the highly discounted 290 and 290X models.
The 470 and 480 will be much cheaper than 570 and 580 until stocks clear out, making 570 and 580 terrible value at launch unless they launch at a lower msrp which won't happen because amd repeats the same mistakes again and again.

 

[IEC]

Some people are overly optimistic... and some people are overly critical. The very BEST RX480 custom cards had boost clocks near what the REFERENCE RX580 cards will have. Maybe less than some had hoped for based on the (questionable) "leaks", but hardly "woefully disappointing"

As for "terrible value", that's relative to the RX470 and RX480 which are insanely good values (esp at clearance pricing).

This is why AMD's strategy of gaining market share at very competitive prices is a double-edged sword - once you give consumers a great value in perf/$, they expect it for every new product you release.

 

[unseenmorbidity]

Haha so just a slight overclock while someone was expecting it to match the Fury.
Atleast the RX560 is a full chip so expecting around 20% performance boost over rx460.
Lastly rx550 is a 512 sp chip means around 60% of performance of rx560 so somewhere between R7 250X and 750 Non ti.

5-6% higher clocks. this is a really awful rebrand. I hope AMD along with GF has atleast done some work to get lower power consumption than Rx 400 series. Its quite embarassing that AMD have to resort to rebrand to sell Polaris. The Polaris architecture is no match for Pascal in power efficiency.

.

This reply works for both of you.

There are "Golden Sample" cards with MASSIVE coolers, and an 8+6 pin on them. Assuming these OC well, it could still match a stock fury. On the other hand, it also likely means that the efficiency isn't much better, since it has been allocated 300 Watts of power .

1080Ti is a rebranded Titan X... if we're using the same metrics laid out by some being applied to the AMD cards.
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2877/geforce-gtx-1080-ti
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2863/titan-x-pascal

I personally don't have a problem with the situation. But it seems people can and will skew facts to suit their agenda, such as the above. This refresh/rebrand is done in a plethora of markets.

What is important to see with the new cards is if it's a respin and if any power characteristics change, allowing for better overclocks.

I don't have an issue with the 1080ti. My only complaint is that it could have been released sooner, but it was obvious why it wasn't.

The real kick in the teeth was the new Titan.

 

[crisium]

Some people are overly optimistic... and some people are overly critical. The very BEST RX480 custom cards had boost clocks near what the REFERENCE RX580 cards will have. Maybe less than some had hoped for based on the (questionable) "leaks", but hardly "woefully disappointing".

Everyone has their own opinion, naturally. However, I don't base my expectations on irrational leaks.

I am using historical examples and contemporary comparisons. Note that this is how I usually discuss GPUs, because for some reason I find it interesting.

Historical: Hawaii rebrand was stronger in every way (except 580 boost clocks which barely wins). The 20% bandwidth increase that Hawaii was gifted with could have been fully matched in the 570. It could have been more than halfway matched in the 580. Instead 570 got a fraction of it, and 580 none of it.

Contemporary: There are a number of 470s available that already beat 570 minimum spec, which while not unheard of for rebrands, take note that no 290 ever made matched a stock 390 in memory bandwidth or capacity. Also...AMD is not even trying to make this the best it could be, i.e. 9Gbps GDDR5 that Nvidia is beginning to make available, or even 8Gbps for the 570 that has been around for nearly a year and at least one 470 has already used.

 

[sandorski]

I'm kinda thinking that the 550 is primarily for OEM PC manufacturers to make systems until the new APU is released. Whether they do so or wait remains to be seen.

 

[IEC]

Oh I agree with you, there is historical and contemporary precedent at a better value.

But that ties into my last point: AMD's strategy of gaining market share at competitive pricing = they aren't going to shoot for the moon, especially on their budget cards.

Not very exciting, but I suspect it will eventually become a very good seller (though maybe not at suggested MSRP, at least until RX 470/480 disappear off store shelves)

 

[mohit9206]

I'm kinda thinking that the 550 is primarily for OEM PC manufacturers to make systems until the new APU is released. Whether they do so or wait remains to be seen.

Yeah oem and developing and third world countries where graphics cards under $80 are very popular and framerate of 20fps is considered as playable.

 

[Bacon1]

I'm very surprised they didn't just do 570 4GB and 580 8GB to have a clear difference between them. Having both still having 4/8 just gives way too many options especially with the crazy amount of different cards on sale, where you have 4gb 480s cheaper than 8gb 470s

 

[crisium]

Oh I agree with you, there is historical and contemporary precedent at a better value.

But that ties into my last point: AMD's strategy of gaining market share at competitive pricing = they aren't going to shoot for the moon, especially on their budget cards.

Not very exciting, but I suspect it will eventually become a very good seller (though maybe not at suggested MSRP, at least until RX 470/480 disappear off store shelves)

I keep confusing myself on that bolded part just because 480 and 470 are the fastest cards AMD currently makes. The kicker is I'd hardly pay attention to this rebrand (other than my naming gripes) if AMD had 2 chips above. The historical part of Hawaii rebrand that I forgot to mention is that it was it competed with Nvidias second fastest chip and the full chip rebrand was $430 vs ~$250. You're right, they won't go all out in the tertiary sector. Vega, we need you so I can stop caring about budget cards.

 

[Bacon1]

http://jisakutech.com/archives/2017/04/33003

bunch of pictures of the presentation

 

[mohit9206]

RX560 is being marketed as upto 2X faster than R7 360 which is pretty decent.
The RX550 is being marketed as upto 5X faster than IGP. Which IGP is not specified. Probably HD530/630 although i doubt it. More likely to be something even slower like HD510/610?

 

[raghu78]

RX560 is being marketed as upto 2X faster than R7 360 which is pretty decent.
The RX550 is being marketed as upto 5X faster than IGP. Which IGP is not specified. Probably HD530/630 although i doubt it. More likely to be something even slower like HD510/610?

You should know by now that if AMD marketing is throwing some numbers they are the best case and nowhere close to real world average performance increase. Anyway R7 360 was a partially disabled Bonaire chip with 768 sp clocked at 1050 Mhz boost . 16 ROPs. 128 bit GDDR5 memory at 6500Mhz . Bandwidth 104 GB/s. 1.61 TFLOPS (768 x 2 x 1050 )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Radeon_Rx_300_series

With Rx 560 we have a fully enabled Polaris 11 with 1024 sp at 1275 Mhz boost . 16 ROPs. 128 bit memory at GDDR5 7000 Mhz. Bandwidth 112 GB/s. 2.61 TFLOPS (1024 x 2 x 1275 ). We are for sure not going to have 2x perf of R7 360 even when theoretical TFLOPS are only 1.6x . btw performance never scales linearly with TFLOPs especially when the chips have same shader engines, tesselation engines, ROPs and roughly same theoretical memory bandwidth even though Polaris does have color compression which improves actual bandwidth. I would say we will see 30-40% improvement in DX11 games and close to 50% in DX12/Vulkan wrt R7 360.

We have already seen AMD partner Sapphire launch fully enabled Polaris 11 with 1250 Mhz boost for Chinese market. So the Rx 560 is just an official SKU of what was previously a region limited SKU. It will be roughly similar to the GTX 1050 in performance.

http://wccftech.com/sapphire-rx-460-nitro-oc-1024-polaris-11-gpu/
http://www.tweaktown.com/news/55411/amd-radeon-rx-460-unlock-free-12-5-performance-gain/index.html
http://overclocking.guide/amd-radeon-rx-460-unlocking-1024-stream-processors/

The main advantage is the Rx 560 comes with 4GB VRAM as the default SKU while GTX 1050 only has 2GB . I think USD 99-109 is the right price for this GPU. Anything higher and its not worth it as the faster GTX 1050 Ti can be found for USD 130.

 

[Headfoot]

If it really is just a clock speed bump with nothing more, then this will be one of the most misleading junk consumer rebrands of all time. They already had the xx5 designation for small changes like this and even announced it. They better have actually done something real to make it different than the aftermarket 470's and 480's.