Police didn't know about cigar theft till after Browns death, and clerk didn't call

[marincounty]

What you say seems a reasonable hypothesis and hopefully can be validated or eliminated as well as your other points. As far as MJ use, I have a study which does not seem to have an axe to grind regarding the debate. Relationship between cannibus use and violence.

In that study there is an increase of about 4% in the population studied. Frequency of use, total THC consumed and other factors will cause variation, but there's little doubt of the effect. It may be that Brown was prone to violent tendencies caused to MJ use, which would be adding misfortune to tragedy. I have been purposefully selective in my reading of allegations against Brown's character including vague references to past criminal behavior. Do we have anything credible and definitive? I ask because such reactions to chemicals tends to be a fairly consistent thing in an individual prone to such things, and perhaps an accurate telling of his past criminal activities may be enlightening, and yes Ahab, that means real events of which there may be exactly zero.

There is much to consider even after the "who dunnits" are revealed.

Really, marijuana and violence? I think we would know about this by now, if it were true.
You sure this study wasn't done by the NIDA?
I'll bet there is a much higher correlation between being black and violence, or the position of the moon and violence. In other words, BS.

 

[Thebobo]

OP hates police. Once you recognize this, everything makes sense. This thread is a joke.

Ok he hates cops......

nothing making sense yet.

how long does it take?

 

[Thebobo]

Really, marijuana and violence? I think we would know about this by now, if it were true.
You sure this study wasn't done by the NIDA?
I'll bet there is a much higher correlation between being black and violence, or the position of the moon and violence. In other words, BS.

Yea I would think someone from Marin county would know :sneaky:

 

[soundforbjt]

What you say seems a reasonable hypothesis and hopefully can be validated or eliminated as well as your other points. As far as MJ use, I have a study which does not seem to have an axe to grind regarding the debate. Relationship between cannibus use and violence.

In that study there is an increase of about 4% in the population studied. Frequency of use, total THC consumed and other factors will cause variation, but there's little doubt of the effect. It may be that Brown was prone to violent tendencies caused to MJ use, which would be adding misfortune to tragedy. I have been purposefully selective in my reading of allegations against Brown's character including vague references to past criminal behavior. Do we have anything credible and definitive? I ask because such reactions to chemicals tends to be a fairly consistent thing in an individual prone to such things, and perhaps an accurate telling of his past criminal activities may be enlightening, and yes Ahab, that means real events of which there may be exactly zero.

There is much to consider even after the "who dunnits" are revealed.

From your link:

The study has its limitations, Rossow says. “Among other things, we do not know whether the incidents of violence reported by the young coincided with the use of cannabis; all we know is that those who increased their use of cannabis, also reported an increase in violence involvement”.

So, basically, they have no idea...:hmm:

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

From your link:
So, basically, they have no idea...:hmm:

If it exists it's a very small incidence, but it's not a zero chance. Psychoactive drugs will have an adverse effect in someone. How many? Evidently not a whole lot, and as far as my selection I picked a Norwegian source, which does not seem to be linked to a pro or anti pot agenda. Do I believe that Brown was unable to determine right or wrong regardless of whatever really happened otherwise? No I don't, but IF someone were to take a medication or drug and have an atypical response causing something bad to happen I'd consider it a tragic thing. Wouldn't you?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Ok now your just babbling at this point. So you were an admin, and your saying what? you would have had me banned? What on gods green earth has any of this got to do with this thread?? And your throwing in bible verses?? /smacks forehead

Your just babbling now..

What I have been saying has more to do with the tragedy in a human sense than anything you have said here. It has to do with deep hatred that surpasses understanding. You say "spare me" and I said I have spared many who act as you do in these circumstances. I would not have banned you, because for all your wicked behavior (an old fashioned term I freely admit) you would remain here, at least as things stand. It was a position of minor authority, yet it could be abused. It did no material harm, but abuse of it would do no one good. It was trivial, unimportant and inconsequential, but what it did do is force administrators and moderators to consider how their behaviors can affect others for good or ill. The imperfections of any individuals notwithstanding, people took their responsibilities to heart. A mistake? What's the worst that could happen? Someone gets to find another internet den. No loss of life or liberty. I choose this example because it's something that you might understand, insignificant as it would be compared to the harm you would cause and that is the meat of the matter. Nothing that could happen here compares to damage those who have a hate filled heart, such as yourself, can accomplish. The parents I can understand. They lost a son. I do understand how the past carries forward into the present and colors the world by memories of real injustice. Although they would still be wrong if allowed to exact revenge at least I can understand them. People such as yourself? You have no such stake. Perhaps you or someone you cared about was wronged, but who can tell?

Since you don't care for Melville, I'll skip the book and borrow from the 1956 movie, where Ahab says.

Look ye, Starbuck, all visible objects are but as pasteboard masks. Some inscrutable yet reasoning thing puts forth the molding of their features. The white whale tasks me; he heaps me. Yet he is but a mask. 'Tis the thing behind the mask I chiefly hate; the malignant thing that has plagued mankind since time began; the thing that maws and mutilates our race, not killing us outright but letting us live on, with half a heart and half a lung.

Ahab was not far off, but he made one glaring error. He believed that the evil lived behind the mask of the White Whale, but no oh modern day Ahab, he and you hide the evil, and evil it is.

I doubt that any of this means anything to you. My babbling may be foolishness to you. Perhaps you believe yourself a pure agent of justice, privy to knowledge beyond mere mortals. If not it makes no difference because your act as if it were true. You'd leave us all with half a heart and half a lung.

 

[werepossum]

From your link:
So, basically, they have no idea...:hmm:

Seems to me that studies generally find whatever they set out to find.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Seems to me that studies generally find whatever they set out to find.

What did they set out to find?

 

[rudder]

not relevant at all as far as the Cop who shot Brown in cold blooded murder knew...

Except it is relevant. If you had just stolen something from a store and unsure if the clerk call the cops... and a cop starts asking you questions... you may be in a little more defensive mood. Also considering you will be starting college soon and you don't want an arrest record for lifting smokes from a convenience store.

 

[werepossum]

What did they set out to find?

I'm guessing that marijuana is not the safe drug it's claimed to be. Perhaps specifically that it leads to violence.

 

[Victorian Gray]

I'm guessing that marijuana is not the safe drug it's claimed to be. Perhaps specifically that it leads to violence.

If I were any more violent right now, I'd be snoring. :biggrin:

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I'm guessing that marijuana is not the safe drug it's claimed to be. Perhaps specifically that it leads to violence.

Considering that it's a widely used psychoactive drug should scientists and medical professionals know if there are potential problems? I'd say yes. I'd also say it makes good sense to look for adverse behavioral responses since its purpose is to alter normal brain function.

MJ isn't some magically safe drug immune to scrutiny nor should it be. It has profound psychological effects and is usually consumed as burning plant material. From where I sit that immediately suggests potential problems warranting investigation. I can tell you that there is no drug, and I expand that definition to include legal medications, which is completely safe, and there cannot be, even in principle. Someone will react badly to it and that's the way of things. With that being the case, medications are subject to tests and trials costing hundreds of millions of dollars and there still can be no guarantee, but at least we know most of what to expect. MJ should not be excluded from research, indeed it ought to be very closely scrutinized as a matter of public health independent of political agenda.

 

[ch33zw1z]

You can thank our lovely government for that, Hayabusa. You seem like a smart guy, so I feel safe assuming you've heard of Henry Anslinger.

I'm for legalization and for research. I can also tell you this, if it went legal then you would see MJ users eating it or vaporizing it, smoking would be a thing of the past unless that person liked to smoke in general. Since smoking isn't illegal, I don't really care if someone does it...

 

[FerrelGeek]

Gov. Nixon just lifted the curfew as the DoJ and higher ups requested it of him.

Great call by Holder and the gov. It was a hot time in the old town last night

Yay for mob rule culture.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

You can thank our lovely government for that, Hayabusa. You seem like a smart guy, so I feel safe assuming you've heard of Henry Anslinger.

I'm for legalization and for research. I can also tell you this, if it went legal then you would see MJ users eating it or vaporizing it, smoking would be a thing of the past unless that person liked to smoke in general. Since smoking isn't illegal, I don't really care if someone does it...

I suppose I should make it clear that I'm not against legalization either, but knowing what's happened in the past with medications I'm not a fan of ignorance. For example, just what do we know about MJ and pregnancy? I mean really well controlled studies? There's not a lot of it, but if use becomes widespread and there are definite risks then what? Yeah, too bad so sad will be the response of many, but consequences don't go away and they never ever take care of themselves. Part of the price people complain about with medications is the money spent on safety investigation and monitoring and it's a hell of a lot of money. Profits cover that, but MJ isn't going to make anyone anything, at least legally. If it does become legalized then there needs to be a significant tax (oh people will love that) to cover these real concerns. In the meantime I don't think we can say that there's no problem nor should we fall back on the "reefer madness" mindset.

 

[ch33zw1z]

MJ and preganancy = treated like any other chemical. If you're pregnant, you shouldn't be ingesting nonessential chemicals anyways. We already have at least two off the shelf chemical intoxicants that we, as a society, deem "too bad, so sad" as a response.

Legally, MJ will bring mucho dinero in form of taxes, I'm all for that.

Legally, MJ should be treated like other legal intoxicants, with the knowledge that it can help people medically as well.

There's many political plays going on with the MJ legalization push, including companies that produce alcohol and tobacco products not wanting it to happen, Law enforcement not wanting it to happen because frankly...it's easy arrests for them. You want violence? Alcohol will make that happen. Then there's Pharmaceutical companies that are trying to keep they're profits up. And of course, there's people's misguided perceptions based on government propaganda that is decades old, with no real science to back it up.

There's much to MJ in general, like different kinds that affect the body differently, Indica or Sativa. Different parts of the plant that have different affects on the body. It's not like THC is the only thing going for it. Much like the Poppy plant(Without the addictive properties, of course ), where morphine is just one of 9 (iirc) active chemicals, another being codeine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabidiol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papaver_somniferum#Medicine

 

[CZroe]

The police did know, even if the officer who shot Brown did not. They knew because of the customer's call. Also, not calling themselves is not an indication that they considered it insignificant, the victim may have decided that there was no reason to when someome else hae already done so and the police were already responding. You assumption about what that means is ridiculous. Every assumption you make only make you sound more like a blind idiot looking for something to rage about. The only reason the store owners would try to downplay their involvement in reporting the previous incident is because of the threats against them from other enraged idiots like yourself. THAT, is a logical assumption. See how this works?

Also, the police admitted the officer did not know Brown was the suspect based on the instructions he gave at the initial stop and because he was not the responding officer in the earlier incident. Now, I haven't reserched why this may or may not be the case yet, but I've seen a lot of people who haven't researched it assume that it alone means that it was completely unrelated to the officer's response (it's OBVIOUSLY related to Brown's response). Just because the officer did not know when he first stopped Brown does not mean he did not figure it out shortly after their confrontation began. Just because he wasn't the responding officer does not mean he did not hear a description of the suspect from dispatch to the other officers. As I said, I have not reasearched it so he may have been off duty and asleep in bed at the time, but I refuse to jump to conclusions like these other idiots so readily do. Your assumptions are infuriatingly irresponsible. Are you glad to count yourself among them?

 

[werepossum]

If I were any more violent right now, I'd be snoring. :biggrin:

Considering that it's a widely used psychoactive drug should scientists and medical professionals know if there are potential problems? I'd say yes. I'd also say it makes good sense to look for adverse behavioral responses since its purpose is to alter normal brain function.

MJ isn't some magically safe drug immune to scrutiny nor should it be. It has profound psychological effects and is usually consumed as burning plant material. From where I sit that immediately suggests potential problems warranting investigation. I can tell you that there is no drug, and I expand that definition to include legal medications, which is completely safe, and there cannot be, even in principle. Someone will react badly to it and that's the way of things. With that being the case, medications are subject to tests and trials costing hundreds of millions of dollars and there still can be no guarantee, but at least we know most of what to expect. MJ should not be excluded from research, indeed it ought to be very closely scrutinized as a matter of public health independent of political agenda.

I wouldn't disagree with that. I do think marijuana has some pretty serious long term effects. And friends I've had who went cold turkey from being heavy daily users went through hell for a few weeks, but it's far closer to tobacco than to heroin or even alcohol. I've had friends who got to the point of doing little else but smoke pot; going cold turkey with that abuse level of cocaine or heroin or alcohol can actually kill you. (And with tobacco can make those around you want to kill you more than with weed.)

I've never used it and never will barring medical necessity (I know, here, snakey snakey snakey) but virtually everyone close to me used it, some quite heavily. All told I've known reasonably closely a few hundred people who used it and I'm quite convinced that associating violence with marijuana is a serious stretch compared to any other recreational drug. Hell, I think you could probably make a better case correlating violence against caffeine or refined sugar. I don't think it's completely safe - one of my friends crashed into the back of a bright red Coca-Cola tractor trailer three times on a straight road in the middle of the day - but no intoxicant is completely safe. No intoxicant will ever be completely safe, as the nature of intoxication is of necessity to impair brain function. But as VC indicates, if there is one supreme anti-violence intoxicant, it's probably marijuana.

 

[Ichinisan]

The store theft incident had JUST happened. Michael Brown was walking home from the store he had just robbed, in the middle of the street, with the large box of stolen cigars in-hand. A customer called the cops. The radio call went out and a different officer was dispatched.

Now, even though this officer was not the one responding to the call about the theft, he would have heard the same radio dispatch that the responding officer heard. A "10-x" code would have indicated "robbery" and there would have also been a description of the suspect.

The officer probably realized who the big guy was almost immediately; simply because Michael Brown started behaving badly when told to get out of the middle of the road.

 

[Ichinisan]

..the Ferguson Market attorney said police did not see the video until after the unarmed teenager, Michael Brown, was shot dead in the street.

Obviously.

Did you realize that the incident happened while Michael Brown was walking away from the robbery with the stolen cigars in-hand? He was being notably belligerent that day.

 

[mizzou]

Use character to defend your client. Use character to prosecute your client. I don't get what hte big fuckign deal is

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The police did know, even if the officer who shot Brown did not.

It's interesting to note that the thread title has not been changed since there was a dispatch call made 9 minutes before Brown and the officer met. Maybe some have already made up their minds and the truth doesn't matter and so deception stands.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Ok he hates cops......

nothing making sense yet.

how long does it take?

No the Op does not hate cops at all!
What we hate is the fact that it seems more and more that these crooked or bad cops are starting to appear to be the majority instead of the minority of cops and something needs to be done across the United states about these bad cops!

If the good cops will not give up or snitch out the bad cops then they are equally responsible....

Sadly it seems there is more and more bad cops......

Don`t get me wrong, we all know there are good cops -- somewhere.....but those good cops need to speak up.....

 

[positivedoppler]

It's clear to me that you've already made up your mind on this and you're simply using this and any other piece of news as confirmation bias to support your predetermined conclusion. And predictably the other side (see Nehalem) is doing the same thing in response but in the opposite direction.

I wonder what made the OP so hateful and distrustful of the police to the point of assuming they routinely murder black suspects and recommending blacks resist arrest as a matter of course. Did a cop fuck his wife, kick his dog, or is he simply a neckbeard rebel wannabe trying to gain street cred by adopting a "down with the pigs!" posture?

wow, calm down. why do people here resort to personal attacks so quickly.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

No the Op does not hate cops at all!

See my last post. It has been established that the police knew about the robbery before Brown and the officer met. I mean it's in a bloody UK paper and no one can credibly say that the OP's title isn't a lie. So why does it stand? Because he wants the officer to pay. He hates him as much as the KKK hates blacks. He's done everything possible to malign, accuse, and convict in advance of the fact, and no it does not make any difference whatsoever what someone else does. It's the OP, who is about as sympathetic and interested in knowing the truth than the most ruthless Hamas leaders care for Israelis. Make no mistake.