Police kill wedding groom

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
On a side note, 31 rounds from one officer? Two mags? I've never seen an officer carry extended mags.

Exactly what I was thinking. Did one of the officers reload and keep shooting?

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Narmer


It's disgusting when the community exact vigalante justice on an arrogant officer but justified when police kill innocent men, such as Amadou Diallo or the countless other incidents between cops and African-Americans? If the laws are formulated by the community and the individuals whom the community entrusts to carry out those laws abuses it and/or shows disgust towards the community, isn't it in the interest of the community to deal with such an unfit official as they see fit and as efficiently as possible? Or is it better to entrust the policing of the police to other police officers? If that was the case, then police would be able to get away with murder...

Vigilante justice? The cop was chasing a criminal and accidentily ran over a child, you act as if he saw the kid crossing the street and ran her down. There have been plenty of innocent white people killed by blacks, as well as other innocent black people killed by other blacks. Does this give me the right to go around killing black people? You are absolutely absurd.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amadou_Diallo

I just read up on it for a minute, but it seems like a justified use of force if they thought the guy was going for a gun. But like I said, I have never heard of that guy until now so I don't really know anything about the case.

Just because you might have come across a bad cop, it does not mean that they are all bad. 99 percent of cops are just normal people that want to make the world a safer place, you really need to get over yourself and your prejudice towards cops. Imagine if I start citing all of the innocents killed by black people and showed the kind of hatred towards black people that you show towards Police. You need to open your eyes a little bit, its getting old seeing you play the race card and the whole "vicitm mentality" that you have.

The fact that you defend the Diallo murderers is sickening, and a good example of police always backing police, even when evidence shows blatant wrongdoing.

41 shots

19 struck him, and about half of those hit him AFTER he was lying on the ground, proven by ballistics evidence.

He had poor english skills, and was pulling his wallet out to identify himself.

Yet you call this a JUSTIFIED shooting. Wonderful.

Hey genius, read my post. I said that I only glanced at it and that it was a justified use of force if they believed that he was going for a gun. If you are a cop and you yell "freeze, Police" and then some guy runs, stops, turns around and goes into his pocket it is a very real possibility that he is going for a gun, it happens all the damn time.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Narmer


It's disgusting when the community exact vigalante justice on an arrogant officer but justified when police kill innocent men, such as Amadou Diallo or the countless other incidents between cops and African-Americans? If the laws are formulated by the community and the individuals whom the community entrusts to carry out those laws abuses it and/or shows disgust towards the community, isn't it in the interest of the community to deal with such an unfit official as they see fit and as efficiently as possible? Or is it better to entrust the policing of the police to other police officers? If that was the case, then police would be able to get away with murder...

Vigilante justice? The cop was chasing a criminal and accidentily ran over a child, you act as if he saw the kid crossing the street and ran her down. There have been plenty of innocent white people killed by blacks, as well as other innocent black people killed by other blacks. Does this give me the right to go around killing black people? You are absolutely absurd.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amadou_Diallo

I just read up on it for a minute, but it seems like a justified use of force if they thought the guy was going for a gun. But like I said, I have never heard of that guy until now so I don't really know anything about the case.

Just because you might have come across a bad cop, it does not mean that they are all bad. 99 percent of cops are just normal people that want to make the world a safer place, you really need to get over yourself and your prejudice towards cops. Imagine if I start citing all of the innocents killed by black people and showed the kind of hatred towards black people that you show towards Police. You need to open your eyes a little bit, its getting old seeing you play the race card and the whole "vicitm mentality" that you have.

Everything's fvckin justified in your opinion. If I take out my cellphone and a cop thought it was a gun, is he justified in killing me? That's absurd.

I think white people have killed enough innocent blacks over the past 400 years to pre-empt you from filling out your supposed quota. Hell, black boys have even gotten killed for whistling at white girls.

The real question is have Blacks killed enough Blacks to meet the quota? Black on black crime dwarfs white on black crime in this country and certainly in Africa where millions have died in genocides and civil strife.

You're absolutely correct but that isn't the topic at hand. Don't try to dilute the argument.

Yes, I forgot from your rantings this is definatley a bash whitey thread.

No, this thread is me trying to make you understand the situation from the cop's POV and from the Victims POV.

You are trying to portray the Police as "fearful animals who think the badge and gun give them the right to slaughter the innocent with no consequences for their actions" and the victim as some poor guy that was just driving down the road and got murdered by a bunch of bloodthirsty cops.

You have seen a few cops that you think hate all black people because of the actions of some bad elements in the black community. You obviously hate all cops because of the actions of some bad elements in the law enforcement community. You have become what you hate.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Narmer


Everything's fvckin justified in your opinion. If I take out my cellphone and a cop thought it was a gun, is he justified in killing me? That's absurd.

I think white people have killed enough innocent blacks over the past 400 years to pre-empt you from filling out your supposed quota. Hell, black boys have even gotten killed for whistling at white girls.

If a cop is yelling at you to stop and put your hands in the air, then you make a sudden movement towards your pocket and pull out something dark (cellphone, wallet, etc..) then what the hell do you expect him to do, ask you what it is? Why would you be so stupid to do something like that when they are pointing a gun at you and telling you to put your hands in the air?

When has a "black boy" been killed for whistling at a white girl recently? What the hell do I have anything to do with white people killing black people? Thats just as retarded as me holding you responsible for all the black people that kill white people.

Every ethnic group has gone through some major sh1t, so get over it. Stop feeling sorry for yourself because one of your ancestors might have been a slave 200 years ago. Who the hell do you think was rounding up all the black people in Africa to put on slave ships, other Africans. It was hundreds of years ago, no one alive today had anything to do with slavery, get over it.

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: Narmer
There's too many "unfortunate series of events" in African American communities involving the police. You see accidents, we see a pattern.

Umm...so, are you saying reverse profiling is ok?

I see too many crimes caused by minorities. You see individual cases, I see patterns? Is that how it works?

I see too many terrorist activities caused by Muslims. You see individual cases, I see patterns?

Shall we lock up all minorities? How about all the religious people? You can't complain about profiling when you're profiling police. You're being a major hypocrite which only further weakens your already weak argument.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Narmer


It was hundreds of years ago, no one alive today had anything to do with slavery, get over it.

Any person, family, or company that profited from slavery and kept those profits still has something to do with it

Also, I just watched an A&E special last night about slavery and civil rights heroes during those days.. Just because slavery was abolished in 1865 does NOT mean horrible and heinous crimes were not committed against black americans.. for almost another 100 years they were treated like ****** in most of this country, murdered, denied equal education and denied basic human rights and liberties..

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Narmer


It was hundreds of years ago, no one alive today had anything to do with slavery, get over it.

Any person, family, or company that profited from slavery and kept those profits still has something to do with it

Also, I just watched an A&E special last night about slavery and civil rights heroes during those days.. Just because slavery was abolished in 1865 does NOT mean horrible and heinous crimes were not committed against black americans.. for almost another 100 years they were treated like ****** in most of this country, murdered, denied equal education and denied basic human rights and liberties..

I guess Germans of today and the future will forever be responsible for the Holocaust no matter how much time passes seeing as how most German ancestors worked in Germany during war time and thus profited from the war revenues?

I guess we should all still hate anyone of Spanish descent since it was their ancestors who came along and killed the natives of the American continents.

I guess OJ's children are responsible for Nicole Brown's death since they're receiving benefits from OJ?

You're argument is terrible. All it does is create perpetual hatred.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Narmer


It was hundreds of years ago, no one alive today had anything to do with slavery, get over it.

Any person, family, or company that profited from slavery and kept those profits still has something to do with it

Also, I just watched an A&E special last night about slavery and civil rights heroes during those days.. Just because slavery was abolished in 1865 does NOT mean horrible and heinous crimes were not committed against black americans.. for almost another 100 years they were treated like ****** in most of this country, murdered, denied equal education and denied basic human rights and liberties..

I understand that, and it is horrible and despicable what happened. However, that is the past, todays younger generations had absolutely nothing to do with that, dwelling on the past and using it as an excuse like Narmer and others like him do will get you no where. My ancestors came to New Orleans from France in the late 1800s or early 1900s, no one in my family ever owned a slave, nor did they go around committing heinous crimes against black people.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Narmer


It was hundreds of years ago, no one alive today had anything to do with slavery, get over it.

Any person, family, or company that profited from slavery and kept those profits still has something to do with it

Also, I just watched an A&E special last night about slavery and civil rights heroes during those days.. Just because slavery was abolished in 1865 does NOT mean horrible and heinous crimes were not committed against black americans.. for almost another 100 years they were treated like ****** in most of this country, murdered, denied equal education and denied basic human rights and liberties..

I guess Germans of today and the future will forever be responsible for the Holocaust no matter how much time passes seeing as how most German ancestors worked in Germany during war time and thus profited from the war revenues?

I guess we should all still hate anyone of Spanish descent since it was their ancestors who came along and killed the natives of the American continents.

I guess OJ's children are responsible for Nicole Brown's death since they're receiving benefits from OJ?

You're argument is terrible. All it does is create perpetual hatred.

Its a vicous circle that will keep all the race baiters (Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, etc..) employed and wealthy for many many years.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Narmer


It's disgusting when the community exact vigalante justice on an arrogant officer but justified when police kill innocent men, such as Amadou Diallo or the countless other incidents between cops and African-Americans? If the laws are formulated by the community and the individuals whom the community entrusts to carry out those laws abuses it and/or shows disgust towards the community, isn't it in the interest of the community to deal with such an unfit official as they see fit and as efficiently as possible? Or is it better to entrust the policing of the police to other police officers? If that was the case, then police would be able to get away with murder...

Vigilante justice? The cop was chasing a criminal and accidentily ran over a child, you act as if he saw the kid crossing the street and ran her down. There have been plenty of innocent white people killed by blacks, as well as other innocent black people killed by other blacks. Does this give me the right to go around killing black people? You are absolutely absurd.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amadou_Diallo

I just read up on it for a minute, but it seems like a justified use of force if they thought the guy was going for a gun. But like I said, I have never heard of that guy until now so I don't really know anything about the case.

Just because you might have come across a bad cop, it does not mean that they are all bad. 99 percent of cops are just normal people that want to make the world a safer place, you really need to get over yourself and your prejudice towards cops. Imagine if I start citing all of the innocents killed by black people and showed the kind of hatred towards black people that you show towards Police. You need to open your eyes a little bit, its getting old seeing you play the race card and the whole "vicitm mentality" that you have.

Everything's fvckin justified in your opinion. If I take out my cellphone and a cop thought it was a gun, is he justified in killing me? That's absurd.

I think white people have killed enough innocent blacks over the past 400 years to pre-empt you from filling out your supposed quota. Hell, black boys have even gotten killed for whistling at white girls.

The real question is have Blacks killed enough Blacks to meet the quota? Black on black crime dwarfs white on black crime in this country and certainly in Africa where millions have died in genocides and civil strife.

You're absolutely correct but that isn't the topic at hand. Don't try to dilute the argument.

Yes, I forgot from your rantings this is definatley a bash whitey thread.

No, this thread is me trying to make you understand the situation from the cop's POV and from the Victims POV.

You are trying to portray the Police as "fearful animals who think the badge and gun give them the right to slaughter the innocent with no consequences for their actions" and the victim as some poor guy that was just driving down the road and got murdered by a bunch of bloodthirsty cops.

You have seen a few cops that you think hate all black people because of the actions of some bad elements in the black community. You obviously hate all cops because of the actions of some bad elements in the law enforcement community. You have become what you hate.

Hate is such a strong word and I never said I hated anyone. I said I distrust them and would NEVER count on them to save my life or those of my family. Furthermore, I don't think they have my interests at heart. The only thing that can change that is if they adhere to the same code as our military.

 

[getbush]

You mean our military that rapes and murders women in Iraq? You would just pull the same sweeping generalizations on them as you do on police. That's your victim mentality getting the best of ya. There are bad examples in every organization, You just paint them as representative of the whole.

Do you see the irony of you hating all police officers based on your unpleasant observations of a few? Huh? Do you?

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: getbush
You mean our military that rapes and murders women in Iraq? You would just pull the same sweeping generalizations on them as you do on police. That's your victim mentality getting the best of ya. There are bad examples in every organization, You just paint them as representative of the whole.

Do you see the irony of you hating all police officers based on your unpleasant observations of a few? Huh? Do you?

Again, I never said I hated anyone, you did. I simply don't trust them with the lives of my family or myself. Furthermore, I'd like to have nothing to do with them. NOTHING. The trust between them and my community has been destroyed and only the explicit understanding of their responsibility would make amends. That means police being held responsible for their actions. If the national militias/guards and US Military have such high standards for their soldiers, then why not the local security force? Why should they have a union, a P.A.C.? It makes no sense to me.

Besides, in the military, you rape a girl or kill an innocent individual, you get sent to prison for a looong time. You don't get paid vacation like you do in the police department.

As for your victim comment, it'll probably be difficult for you to understand. But if you have a Jewish friend; or a gay friend, perhaps you should ask them how it feels to be a part of society? Amplify their answer by 10 and you'll begin to understand the isolation many Afro-Americans harbor.

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: Narmer
You're the one that's retarded because you added all while I spoke from a general POV. History shows that I'm right and your analogy is absurd because it seeks to categorize into opposing camps with no areas of grey. Try harder.

History also "shows" that Germans are nazis, but times have changed and that is no longer true. Police brutality against blacks decades ago says NOTHING about police brutality against blacks now.

 

[beyoku]

wow this thread is a hot one. When it comes down to it though it seems that the driver didnt know that the cops were....well, cops.
The cops may have pulled out guns and scared him so he put the petal to the metal. That is what i would have done if i was there.
Also it seems as if they were really trying to haul asss cause he hit the van multiple times. Maybe the van was blocking the exit.
BTW what is the official statement from the police on this? I dont watch TV so it may be something new vs. the web.

EDIT: Please, please stop using Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton as your race scapegoats. In the time that we are in now, they are the only ones in the position to do what they do. Jesse marched with King. And i think he ran "game" on Saddam to get those hostages released. Some of You people in the thread with these attitudes would HATE King today. IF you read old papers that hated on MLK its the same exact words just coming from different people.. Anyway, between kramer, 92 year old woman shoot cops and cops blazing up cars we have had enough race issues to take us into 2007.

 

[irrigating]

Lets see... you're a bunch of punks with prior convictions and go out to play in the big city. You negotiate for sex inside and outside a club being staked out by undercover NYC cops looking for prostitution and guns and drugs. You're up to all three.

So far, not so bad. No one said you were genius's. You came out to play, and now you're playin.

You cause a scene negotiating for your sex - 'cmon the groom to be with the girlfriend and two kids, wants to get some pooty before he marries her.

The negotiations for sex aren't going well (you spent too much on booze and drugs) so now your friend says he's gonna go get his gun.

Cops are listening...duh.

What happened next is sad, yes.

Though it could have ended with a trip to booking, a day in a cell waiting to see a judge, egg on white bread, tux money going to a lawyer. Just had to say "yes officer, no problem", and put the car in park.

But no. Ya had to be a punk and try to run over a man simply at his job. A working man, not well paid, just working.

Now people are marching in the streets. Whose fault is that?

I feel sorry for all involved, but I'm going to work in the morning, and I won't be marching with Rev Al, thank you .

 

[tomywishbone]

"... a man simply at his job. A working man, not well paid, just working..."

Riddle me this; does being a simple man... a working man, make you more of a man than the man you just killed?

They killed that man and he's dead. For nothing... he's dead. Cowards.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: tomywishbone
"... a man simply at his job. A working man, not well paid, just working..."

Riddle me this; does being a simple man... a working man, make you more of a man than the man you just killed?

They killed that man and he's dead. For nothing... he's dead. Cowards.

Cowards? He was trying to hit them (and did) with his car, how are they cowards?

 

[virtueixi]

The cop who capped the crap outta that thug was the same guy the thug ran over. Kind of explains to me why he fired 31 shots. I know if someone was trying to kill me with a car, I'd sure as hell make sure they were dead.

 

[beyoku]

why is everyone ignoring the fact that all information points to the idea that the driver didnt know that the shooters were cops? - Why are you all ignoring this?

If you just left a strip club, got into an verbal dispute. Got into your car and the PLAIN CLOTHES - UNIDENTIFIED cops, that were in a MINIVAN - you disputed with pulled a gun(s) what would you do?
-Haul asss
-Freeze and put your hands up

I for one would be trying to use my car as a weapon and try to ram the PLAIN CLOTHES - UNIDENTIFIED cops to get the hell out. Would i be justified - Yes.
Would the cops be justified for shooting at me - Yes.

IN this case it seems that the COPS should have taken mastery over the situation. THis is what they should be trained to do. Obviously the cops didnt identify themselves. They could have stopped the entire episode in its tracks when a member of the grooms party "made reference to a gun." The driver it seems didnt know that the people firing were policemen, what would you expect him to do? What would YOU do. Both sides are justified BUT the cops cause the issue to escalate and could have diffused this situation. Maybe they just got over-zealous.

 

[getbush]

Originally posted by: virtueixi
The cop who capped the crap outta that thug was the same guy the thug ran over. Kind of explains to me why he fired 31 shots. I know if someone was trying to kill me with a car, I'd sure as hell make sure they were dead.

To be clear, the officer who was struck was the first to shoot, and he fired 11 shots. The guy who fired 31 is one of the two who jumped out of the van.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: virtueixi
The cop who capped the crap outta that thug was the same guy the thug ran over. Kind of explains to me why he fired 31 shots. I know if someone was trying to kill me with a car, I'd sure as hell make sure they were dead.

How many times was that cop shot? How many broken bones did he have? How fast was the car going? A stopped car hardly counts as a deadly weapon.

 

[dmcowen674]

11-28-2006 Mayor meets with shooting victim's kin

The 50-bullet police volley ? likened to a "firing squad" by the Rev. Al Sharpton ? killed 23-year-old Sean Bell after his bachelor party, wounded two of his friends and ignited concerns over police tactics and firepower. The three men were unarmed.

Bloomberg went to the family's church in Queens and met with Bell's fiancee and father, and with Sharpton. The mayor then met again with other community leaders.

On Monday, Bloomberg said the police response seemed "unacceptable" and "inexplicable," but he was steadfast in his support for Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly, who has been denounced by some critics since the shooting.

Of the victims, Bloomberg said Monday:

"There is no evidence that they were doing anything wrong," referring to what led up to the moment their car struck an undercover officer outside the nightclub.

Police said they had received several complaints about prostitution and drug dealing at the cabaret and sent in two undercover detectives who left their guns behind because of searches at the door.

The detectives apparently spent the next few hours nursing drinks and mingling with the crowd.

Officials said the officers weren't impaired. "We authorize them to have two drinks, and not more," Kelly said.

One of the officers alerted the backup team outside that a man inside was possibly armed. An undercover detective retrieved his weapon and confronted Bell and his friends after they entered their car.

Kelly suggested that it was unorthodox for the officer to blow his cover rather than rely on other officers to make the arrest.

Union officials insist the detective took out his badge, identified himself and ordered the men to stop before the car, driven by Bell, lurched forward and bumped him. The vehicle then smashed into an unmarked police van, backed up and smashed the van again before the shooting began.

The crashes ? along with the fear that one of the men had a gun ? seem to be what escalated the situation to the hail of gunfire by five officers.

It is not immediately clear if the men in the car knew they were dealing with a police officer. Friends and family speculated Bell got spooked by the officer's gun pointed at his car.

Michael Palladino, president of the Detectives Endowment Association, argued that the officers had a right to fire if the car posed a lethal threat.

"The driver of that vehicle ? his actions were a contributing factor," Palladino said.

"The amount of shots fired does not spell out excessive to me."
================================================
Wow apparently the car must have been equippped with machine guns like the Knight Rider car according to the Union rep. :roll:

 

[getbush]

How many times was that cop shot? How many broken bones did he have? How fast was the car going? A stopped car hardly counts as a deadly weapon.

0
0 as far as I know
it was going - 3000 pound object moving at even 5 mph packs a lot of kinetic energy
a moving car counts

If you had a brain you would argue based on the policy of not shooting at cars when they are the only threat, instead of trying to say getting run over by a car is no threat.
Good day.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: getbush

How many times was that cop shot? How many broken bones did he have? How fast was the car going? A stopped car hardly counts as a deadly weapon.

0
0 as far as I know
it was going - 3000 pound object moving at even 5 mph packs a lot of kinetic energy
a moving car counts

If you had a brain you would argue based on the policy of not shooting at cars when they are the only threat, instead of trying to say getting run over by a car is no threat.
Good day.

But the car already hit the person when he opened fire. The car no longer was a threat to him.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: getbush

How many times was that cop shot? How many broken bones did he have? How fast was the car going? A stopped car hardly counts as a deadly weapon.

0
0 as far as I know
it was going - 3000 pound object moving at even 5 mph packs a lot of kinetic energy
a moving car counts

If you had a brain you would argue based on the policy of not shooting at cars when they are the only threat, instead of trying to say getting run over by a car is no threat.
Good day.

But the car already hit the person when he opened fire. The car no longer was a threat to him.

The vehicle was a threat as long as the engine was running and a person was behind the wheel.