police used a bomb droid to take out Dallas shooter

[Brian Stirling]

Isaac Asimov would not approve!


Brian

 

[Imp]

When I first heard about this, I was thinking they shot him with the robot because some of them have shotguns/water guns attached.

On the ethics side, it is "weird" to have the cops killing someone, even a murderer who was allegedly actively shooting back throughout negotiations. But cops are allowed to kill you if you just draw a gun on them...

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

False dichotomy, you could just as easily keep him teargassed for an hour straight. At some point he'd pass out from pain or dehydration, and you could even use a robot to verify that.

If the authorities think the active murdering serial killer, can/might communicate to other murdering team mates and/or activate remote controlled bomb(s) and/or maybe set off explosives from where they are located and/or find more sniper targets, via people milling about and NOT realizing they are within sniper range.

Then (time is of the essence, otherwise more people could be killed, so) sending a weaponized (presumably) remote control (robot) mobile device, is one of their limited options, in this VERY rare situation.

 

[Ruptga]

If the authorities think the active murdering serial killer, can/might communicate to other murdering team mates and/or activate remote controlled bomb(s) and/or maybe set off explosives from where they are located and/or find more sniper targets, via people milling about and NOT realizing they are within sniper range.

Then (time is of the essence, otherwise more people could be killed, so) sending a weaponized (presumably) remote control (robot) mobile device, is one of their limited options, in this VERY rare situation.

I don't see what rushing for the robokill gains us since any half-competent murderer will be using a dead-man switch on their explosives. Plus which is faster, firing blinding gas grenades or setting up and then driving a robot over?

But maybe it was completely justified, I wasn't there and I haven't been poring over the details, but even so there is always more than one option and we have been dealing with active shooters for far longer than there have been bomb-disposal robots.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

I don't see what rushing for the robokill gains us since any half-competent murderer will be using a dead-man switch on their explosives. Plus which is faster, firing blinding gas grenades or setting up and then driving a robot over?

But maybe it was completely justified, I wasn't there and I haven't been poring over the details, but even so there is always more than one option and we have been dealing with active shooters for far longer than there have been bomb-disposal robots.

If I remember correctly, I heard that he (the killer) was expecting it to be a cell phone (and maybe other stuff), brought over by the remote controlled robot.

It would be possible that he was using dead man switches, but given that you are probably dealing with some kind of half-crazed lunatic to do stuff like that. There is a good chance they WON'T be in practice.

There were different options available to the authorities, it is easy in the quiet, with plenty of time and hindsight to suggest other options.

It seems to have ended the siege quite well, as far as I can tell.

They may have also been worried that the killer(s), may have moved to other areas.

At the time, they (the authorities) seemed to be confused as to how many attackers there were all together. So sending in further police, could have been targeted from other building/hideouts.

 

[Capt Caveman]

I don't see what rushing for the robokill gains us since any half-competent murderer will be using a dead-man switch on their explosives. Plus which is faster, firing blinding gas grenades or setting up and then driving a robot over?

But maybe it was completely justified, I wasn't there and I haven't been poring over the details, but even so there is always more than one option and we have been dealing with active shooters for far longer than there have been bomb-disposal robots.

You watch too many movies.

 

[luv2liv]

If shooter is 100% guilty, I'm fine with him bombed to death on the spot. Stop wasting time and tax payers dollars.
I mean, just look at the movie theater shooter... How long has he been in court? What's the point of keeping him alive? Think he will contribute to society in the future? Just my opinion.

 

[Captante]

repost?
Wrong forum?
Day late, dollar short?

All of the above?

 

[skyking]

They did not rush in there to kill him. The police had negotiated with him for 5 hours, and it was clear they were not getting anywhere.

 

[Elixer]

I just wondered, if the robot could get that close, seems there are any number of other devices that they could have used if they wanted him alive, everything from infrasound (LRAD) to electrical to chemical devices.

Then again, wasn't there, and don't know any of the circumstances so, I just assume they did the best they could.

 

[Carson Dyle]

They didn't want him alive.

 

[Imp]

I don't see what rushing for the robokill gains us since any half-competent murderer will be using a dead-man switch on their explosives. Plus which is faster, firing blinding gas grenades or setting up and then driving a robot over?

Gas grenade = smoke screen for suspect and cops. Suspect runs out of gas shooting, kills a cop or two before being put down. And this guy went through basic in the military so probably had tear gas exposure training. If cops followed the gas in, he may have shot a few of them. Suspect also said he had a bomb so why not go out with a bang after running out of the smoke towards a group of cops who can't see you.

If a cop had a long/medium wave infrared scope that could maybe see through the gas, maybe he could have shot the guy running towards them.

 

[John Connor]

Wait till the police replace those high maintenance, high cost Helos for drones.

Imagine what they could do for crowd control. Rain tear gas from above!

 

[Ruptga]

Gas grenade = smoke screen for suspect and cops. Suspect runs out of gas shooting, kills a cop or two before being put down. And this guy went through basic in the military so probably had tear gas exposure training. If cops followed the gas in, he may have shot a few of them. Suspect also said he had a bomb so why not go out with a bang after running out of the smoke towards a group of cops who can't see you.

If a cop had a long/medium wave infrared scope that could maybe see through the gas, maybe he could have shot the guy running towards them.

The point of tear gas training is to demonstrate the effectiveness of gas masks to the new ranks, it does nothing to keep you from being blinded by watering and swollen eyes.

If shooter is 100% guilty, I'm fine with him bombed to death on the spot. Stop wasting time and tax payers dollars.
I mean, just look at the movie theater shooter... How long has he been in court? What's the point of keeping him alive? Think he will contribute to society in the future? Just my opinion.

You're not wrong, but it's not the place of the police to decide that.

 

[Red Squirrel]

If shooter is 100% guilty, I'm fine with him bombed to death on the spot. Stop wasting time and tax payers dollars.
I mean, just look at the movie theater shooter... How long has he been in court? What's the point of keeping him alive? Think he will contribute to society in the future? Just my opinion.

What pisses me off is you have so many cases of cops killing practically innocent people who while may be guilty of a crime, it is not a crime that deserves death. Then you have people who actually do deserve death or at very least jail, and it just gets dragged out in court.

 

[Imp]

The point of tear gas training is to demonstrate the effectiveness of gas masks to the new ranks, it does nothing to keep you from being blinded by watering and swollen eyes.

It probably wouldn't, but having previously been exposed to gas, the guy probably wouldn't panic like a clueless civilian, and thus continue to pose a threat. And seeing as how he supposedly had body armor and was proficient in the use of a rifle, there was no guarantee he didn't have a gas mask.

 

[Ruptga]

It probably wouldn't, but having previously been exposed to gas, the guy probably wouldn't panic like a clueless civilian, and thus continue to pose a threat. And seeing as how he supposedly had body armor and was proficient in the use of a rifle, there was no guarantee he didn't have a gas mask.

Yeah but what if this other thing happened to be the case, that would totally invalidate your argument!

There were options straight from the standard playbook that did not involve using the police as faceless executioners via the proxy of a robot, but that's still what we went with. Maybe it was the best call, maybe it wasn't, and I don't care to invest enough of my time to prove that either way; but when we came for him the situation was not we kill this guy right now or innocents will die right now, which is the statement I was originally responding to. We negotiated with him for hours, if the threat was so obviously pressing then why did we do that?

 

[Imp]

False dichotomy, you could just as easily keep him teargassed for an hour straight. At some point he'd pass out from pain or dehydration, and you could even use a robot to verify that.

You made a point and made it seem like a very simple solution.

Yeah but what if this other thing happened to be the case, that would totally invalidate your argument!
?

Then I pointed out some obvious flaws. Why you mad?

 

[Ruptga]

You made a point and made it seem like a very simple solution.

Eh, I threw it out as one obvious potential solution, it was the first one that came to mind... probably because it is used all the time by cops in intense situations.

 

[Humpy]

We negotiated with him for hours, if the threat was so obviously pressing then why did we do that?

It really solidifies the perception that the police tend to use barbaric tactics to solve problems rather than holding themselves to a higher standard.

This was a massive fuck up from beginning to end.

 

[skyking]

We negotiated with him for hours, if the threat was so obviously pressing then why did we do that?

He was cornered in a position that the police could not take without exposing personnel to harm. They had no good option but negotiate.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Won't someone think of the robots?

 

[Rumpltzer]

Why is there not more outrage over what happened here? Why are there no protests over this?

ROBOT LIVES MATTER!!

 

[Capt Caveman]

Eh, I threw it out as one obvious potential solution, it was the first one that came to mind... probably because it is used all the time by cops in intense situations.

Again, you watch too many movies.

 

[Carson Dyle]

The only thing that surprises me is that they didn't use a dog. Maybe they didn't want to get a dog hurt (DLM), or they were afraid he'd detonate a bomb if he wasn't incapacitated instantly.