police used a bomb droid to take out Dallas shooter

[TallBill]

The only thing that surprises me is that they didn't use a dog. Maybe they didn't want to get a dog hurt (DLM), or they were afraid he'd detonate a bomb if he wasn't incapacitated instantly.

Not surprisingly the average forums user knows nothing about police tactics or response.

You don't send dogs into situations that you wouldn't send a human into. Just like you don't send a bomb sniffing dog to check a possible bomb.

 

[Carson Dyle]

You don't send dogs into situations that you wouldn't send a human into.

Really? They've always seemed to use dogs as weapons. I never heard of cops picking out one of their own and saying "You go get him. We'll wait here until you've taken him down and have him under control."

But I can certainly understand not sending a dog right into a situation where he's very likely to get shot.

 

[Zodiark1593]

The point of tear gas training is to demonstrate the effectiveness of gas masks to the new ranks, it does nothing to keep you from being blinded by watering and swollen eyes.



You're not wrong, but it's not the place of the police to decide that.

The question is whether the law extends protection to active threats. There is no question that had the suspect surrendered in earnest or was otherwise incapacitated, killing him then would amount to murder no matter his crimes. However, the suspect did not show signs of surrender, thus was still an active threat that needed to be stopped asap regardless of what the law says.

 

[pcgeek11]

What type of explosive would be used for this?

1-pound C4 plastic explosive plus "Det" cord as per the Dallas PD.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

I think part of WHY they used the robotic bomb, rather than other methods, was the extensive body armor that the active shooter had.

They were worried that he may charge the police and kill/injure more people.

Also bullets were relatively ineffective, because of the extensive body armor, so the robotic bomb method must have made lots of sense, at the time.

 

[Charmonium]

1-pound C4 plastic explosive plus "Det" cord as per the Dallas PD.

Oh shit!. They really wanted to make sure they vaporized the guy.

 

[Humpy]

However, the suspect did not show signs of surrender, thus was still an active threat that needed to be stopped asap regardless of what the law says.

Surrender or be be killed via high explosives regardless of what the law says? Brilliant! That is the kind of shit that works so well in North Korea and the Middle East.

That so many people are okay with unnecessary brutality and retaliation is why we are where we are. I look forward to all the flabbergasted outrage when this happens again.

 

[jlee]

The only thing that surprises me is that they didn't use a dog. Maybe they didn't want to get a dog hurt (DLM), or they were afraid he'd detonate a bomb if he wasn't incapacitated instantly.

You'd end up with a dead dog and be right back where you started.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

Surrender or be be killed via high explosives regardless of what the law says? Brilliant! That is the kind of shit that works so well in North Korea and the Middle East.

That so many people are okay with unnecessary brutality and retaliation is why we are where we are. I look forward to all the flabbergasted outrage when this happens again.

If there is some kind of "lunatic", wildly shooting many people, they need to be dealt with, immediately.

If they immediately surrender, then fair enough. But if NOT, they have to be handled, potentially with lethal force.

Otherwise many other lives could be put at risk.

 

[Humpy]

If there is some kind of "lunatic", wildly shooting many people, they need to be dealt with, immediately.

If they immediately surrender, then fair enough. But if NOT, they have to be handled, potentially with lethal force.

Otherwise many other lives could be put at risk.

I thought he had been cornered for several hours?

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

I thought he had been cornered for several hours?

That was failing to work (negotiations). So they decided it was getting too risky, that the attacker, would move out again, and try and kill more people. The attackers extensive body armor and long sniping range, further limited the police's non-lethal options and/or trying to shoot him.

 

[jlee]

If there is some kind of "lunatic", wildly shooting many people, they need to be dealt with, immediately.

If they immediately surrender, then fair enough. But if NOT, they have to be handled, potentially with lethal force.

Otherwise many other lives could be put at risk.

I feel like I'm missing some part of the "omg they can't use bombs" argument - legally, using an explosive or using a firearm makes no difference. Once you cross the "deadly force is justified to stop the threat or make an arrest" threshold, the means is irrelevant. If that threshold is not met, the standard is 'reasonable force' - but in this case (with an active shooter), we're well beyond that.

 

[jlee]

That was failing to work (negotiations). So they decided it was getting too risky, that the attacker, would move out again, and try and kill more people. The attackers extensive body armor and long sniping range, further limited the police's non-lethal options and/or trying to shoot him.

IIRC, I also read that he was engaging in gunfire throughout the negotiations. If police had continued to negotiate indefinitely and the shooter managed to escape through some back exit and shot a few civilians, the public outcry would be right up there with the "you can't use bombs!!!!!11111111" crowd.

 

[Humpy]

That was failing to work (negotiations). So they decided it was getting too risky, that the attacker, would move out again, and try and kill more people. The extensive body armor and long sniping range, further limited the polices non-lethal options and/or trying to shoot him.

That negotiations were not yet successful doesn't at all mean that they were never going to be successful. Time was no longer of essence once the suspect was cornered.

If the Dallas police were unable to incapacitate one man with the usual means then the same bomb they set off simply for the sake of expediency could have later been set off if/when the suspect made an armed move towards escape or began firing again.

 

[Humpy]

IIRC, I also read that he was engaging in gunfire throughout the negotiations.

I haven't seen that.

They aren't really negotiations if people are still shooting.

It's kind of dumb to get too far into this so soon after without a full record of the events.

 

[jlee]

I haven't seen that.

They aren't really negotiations if people are still shooting.

Well, maybe not productive negotiations...

 

[Humpy]

Well, maybe not productive negotiations...

Fire one shot if you agree, two or more if you disagree.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

That negotiations were not yet successful doesn't at all mean that they were never going to be successful. Time was no longer of essence once the suspect was cornered.

If the Dallas police were unable to incapacitate one man with the usual means then the same bomb they set off simply for the sake of expediency could have later been set off if/when the suspect made an armed move towards escape or began firing again.

I think in such a highly dangerous situation. The person/people in charge of handling that situation, have to make rapid life or death decisions.

If/when they have an opportunity to "take out" the shooter. Especially after significant negotiations have fallen through. There comes a time, when the "boss(s)", can decide to "take out" the attacker.

As a result of stuff like this. Sooner or later, we may see real armed drones, like the ones used to take out ISIS targets. Used in the USA, against domestic targets. That is beginning to get worrying.

In this case it was essentially a "terrorist" attack. So severe defensive measures are potentially justified.

 

[rh71]

well that's the last time a shooter goes into barracading himself without hostages...

 

[olds]

Oh shit!. They really wanted to make sure they vaporized the guy.

I saw a picture, he wasn't vaporized.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

I saw a picture, he wasn't vaporized.

He was alive long enough, after the explosion, to leave a message for the police.
It was the initials "R.B." written in blood, apparently.
The police are/were baffled as to what RB stands for. (This was from an EARLIER news source).

One of the sources:

I stand a little corrected, it says:

EXCLUSIVE: Red, black and green: The chilling last initials written the Dallas sniper's own blood stand for the Pan African flag, a powerful Black Power symbol

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ice-asking-officers-killed.html#ixzz4E7DaW6Mm
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[olds]

He was alive long enough, after the explosion, to leave a message for the police.
It was the initials "R.B." written in blood, apparently.
The police are/were baffled as to what RB stands for.

One of the sources:

Robot Bastard

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

Robot Bastard

That's a good one, LOL!

 

[trenchfoot]

Next up: Robocop. A real one.

 

[Humpy]

I think in such a highly dangerous situation. The person/people in charge of handling that situation, have to make rapid life or death decisions.

If/when they have an opportunity to "take out" the shooter. Especially after significant negotiations have fallen through. There comes a time, when the "boss(s)", can decide to "take out" the attacker.

As a result of stuff like this. Sooner or later, we may see real armed drones, like the ones used to take out ISIS targets. Used in the USA, against domestic targets. That is beginning to get worrying.

In this case it was essentially a "terrorist" attack. So severe defensive measures are potentially justified.

I don't know enough yet to comment if the true threat, at the time the bomb was used, is being exaggerated or not. I don't see much of an issue in ending an active threat this way rather than with bullets.

Considering the larger issues at hand, I don't like the image presented by using explosives. I hope an opportunity wasn't missed to demonstrate that, even in unusually tense situations, the police can show intelligence and restraint rather than simply doing the more of the same shit that people are already pissed off about.