Political correctness and birthrate

Page 4 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
The combination of birth control, feminism and materialism in addition to the extremely anti-male bias of the family court system probably explains the plummeting birth rate.

We saw, across the ex-Soviet bloc countries, birth rates plummet as capitalism brought in a new era of wealth and birth control became widely available. Women chose designer purses and trips to Paris over childrearing en mass. Today you'll find that those nations are all still trying to find creative ways to incentivize childbirth. In the West we've been seeing that sort of decline for about 40 years now.

Throw in the fact that most marriages fail, and when they do, most guys get absolutely railed via child support and\or alimony. This has served to disincentivize marriage for men while incentivizing it for women. Throw in a lot of the earlier discussed issues of high achieving women (and men's response of achieving less) and you wind up with pushes in both directions by both sexes. Women don't need to get married to be successful, but they want to because there's virtually no downside to it for them. Most of them still want to have children, but frequently want to wait later in life to have them. Men don't want or need to get married for any real reason now. Many of them still want children, but they fear the wrath of the court system should they have a falling out with the child's mother. At the same time, men have a smaller incentive to achieve great things because women look less and less towards men as primary providers, and thus are willing to couple (however briefly) with low achieving men.

So what I see now is:
1) An enormous explosion of "single mothers," now representing the majority of births in the US. Many of them are at this point second generation single mothers.
2) A clamboring by women for "marriageable men." That is, high achieving men relative to the achievements of the woman seeking him. The men are either low achieving (and potentially "single fathers",) or are unwilling to risk marriage, or are unwilling to marry a "single mother."
3) High achieving\highly educated people of both genders that are so disillusioned with "the system" that they simply won't be a part of it. They either stay single or they become DINKs. Being from an upper-middle\upper class background myself, that's the story of virtually everyone I know around age 30. We're a generation that still reacts to the news of a pregnancy with "Oh no! What happened?!" Less than 5% of my facebook friends are parents.

So it's a very complicated problem. Trying to boil it down to just feminism, or just materialism is difficult if not impossible. I predict we'll continue to see a precipitous decline in the marriage rate and birth rate among the middle class and higher echelons of society. Men simply no longer have any incentive to marry & have children if they have no belief that they'll be building a legacy. Women seem to have a stronger biological drive towards childbearing, but as they become steadily more masculinized by our society we'll may see materialism and YOLO holding a strong enough grip on them long enough to exhaust their childbearing years.

And, for the record, I love the first google result as suggested by the OP:
women cannot be trusted :biggrin:
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,131
5,659
126
How is it that the affluent don't have the time to raise kids. They have money but not time. Thats not really affluent. The truly affluent have both.


Their Affluence affords them activities that are not available to the poor. Thus sex becomes less important as entertainment.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Their Affluence affords them activities that are not available to the poor. Thus sex becomes less important as entertainment.
It isn't that sex becomes less important as entertainment. It's that sex becomes practical with other women, with whom it is not wise to have children lest the wives pop caps in they asses and take half of what ass is left behind.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,131
5,659
126
It isn't that sex becomes less important as entertainment. It's that sex becomes practical with other women, with whom it is not wise to have children lest the wives pop caps in they asses and take half of what ass is left behind.

I disagree.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
Their Affluence affords them activities that are not available to the poor. Thus sex becomes less important as entertainment.

Bullhockey. You two are suffering a disconnect on the definition of "affluent." Really "affluent" people have more children than the average middle class American. Billionaires worldwide blow away the average American middle class birthrate, and even American billionaires have more than the average number of kids.

But as I said, the number of people who fall into that category are exceedingly small. The problem we're seeing is that the halfway point of the middle class on up to the "middle upper" class are seeing far below replacement rate birthrates. They're more likely to see it as a choice between children and financial security\independence. The people above and below that don't worry about finances as they relate to children, though for different reasons.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,131
5,659
126
Bullhockey. You two are suffering a disconnect on the definition of "affluent." Really "affluent" people have more children than the average middle class American. Billionaires worldwide blow away the average American middle class birthrate, and even American billionaires have more than the average number of kids.

But as I said, the number of people who fall into that category are exceedingly small. The problem we're seeing is that the halfway point of the middle class on up to the "middle upper" class are seeing far below replacement rate birthrates. They're more likely to see it as a choice between children and financial security\independence. The people above and below that don't worry about finances as they relate to children, though for different reasons.

Here, we're all Affluent. [Perhaps the lowest of the low economically may not be Affluent, but in comparison to the rest of the World we most certainly are affluent.
 

AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
3
81
Poverty brings high birth rates. Lack of poverty brings low birth rates. You can see it all around the world delineated in countries and by countries. This holds water much better than trying to correlate some loose idea of political correctness forcing birth rates down, which is pretty ludicrous.

Middle class and up people wait for the "right time" and are content raising a small family if any. Lower class just can't care if they want a family and many of them lack the sense to get birth control (or they're catholic).
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,061
10,245
136
You're a stupid libtard who can't contribute.

Sex < > Babies

Since sex generally comes before babies and this thread is mostly about texashiker trying to pass off his views regarding women as necessary and normal, DominionSeraph had a valid point.
 

Veliko

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2011
3,597
127
106
What an utter nonsense of an OP.

Still, it's acted as a honey trap for the forum misogynists so I guess it served a purpose of some kind.
 

AViking

Platinum Member
Sep 12, 2013
2,264
1
0
If a man cannot distinguish between treating a woman as an equal in society but being dominant in the bedroom then he's not a man.

If a woman wants to be equal in the bedroom then shes' going to have to find a very feminine man.

If you can date American women then you should be able to have children with them.

I struggle to date American women since I find the vast majority to be far too masculine and fat.

If anything I would say that people have less children since they are not attractive to one another, are too busy working all the time, and are having money problems.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,291
28,145
136
Rather than highjacking a thread about the Japanese birthrate in OT, I decided to start another thread in P&N.

Is political correctness feminizing men to the point where men do not want a family?

Over the weekend there was a news article talking about how sexism is still a problem in society. If you want an example, just type "women can not" into google and look at the suggested popular searches.

Article - http://mashable.com/2013/10/18/google-autocomplete-sexism/

In my opinion, being sexist helps sex drive. If a man looks at a woman as a sexual object he is more likely to have sex with her. Sex is likely to lead to marriage and children.

But if the man looks at a woman as an equal, he will not want to have sex with her. Much less marry and want to have kids.

The traditional family of the man working and the woman staying at home has been dying since the 1960s.

In my opinion again, women demanding equal rights, and equal economic opportunity is a turn off to men. This turn off is forcing men to rethink getting married and starting a family.

~ EDIT ~

On the flip side of the coin, are careers driving women away from being married and having children?

To live up to the standards for a modern woman, she should be college educated, and have a high paying job. So where does a family fit into those plans?

By equal do you mean having an opinion? God forbid!

If you mean being an earner I suggest if you had a chance to bang Kate Upton, her making more then you wouldn't get in the way.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
106
What an utter nonsense of an OP.

What nonsense?

Since the 1960s women have been going to college, establishing a career, making money,,,, where does having a family fit into those plans?

Men who have normally filled manual labor rolls may feel intimidated asking a female accountant or lawyer out on a date.

Him - welder, makes a modest wage.

Her - lawyer, pulls in 100k a year.

Do you think those two would really fit in with their friends?

Instead of women saying they want to put those child bearing hips to use, they put their brains to use making money.
 
Last edited:

Agent11

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
3,535
1
0
BREAKING NEWS: "Man views a woman as a sex object."

Quickly, somebody get CNN on the line!

Excellent third post.


I think it's a shame that many Americans are choosing not to have a family. Part of the problem is unrealistic expectations and lack of maturity in my opinion.

I doubt that men are being frightened into subduing their attraction to women, although paranoia over being perceived as committing sexual harassment has influenced interaction.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,061
10,245
136
Men who have normally filled manual labor rolls may feel intimidated asking a female accountant or lawyer out on a date.

So women should feel content with not fulfilling their potential because some people have an inferiority complex.

Texashiker's message: Women, be what men want you to be. What you want doesn't matter. Be an empty vessel and wait for a man to fill you, because that's all you're worth.

I suspect texashiker's wife likes kittens.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w
 
Last edited:

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
106
So women should feel content with not fulfilling their potential because some people have an inferiority complex.

Texashiker's message: Women, be what men want you to be. What you want doesn't matter. Be an empty vessel and wait for a man to fill you, because that's all you're worth.

No, it is not that at all.

Women may have simply priced themselves out of the family market.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
So women should feel content with not fulfilling their potential because some people have an inferiority complex.

Why does "fulfilling their potential" mean having a career?

Texashiker's message: Women, be what men want you to be. What you want doesn't matter. Be an empty vessel and wait for a man to fill you, because that's all you're worth.

You mean as opposed to

Liberals message: Women, be what feminists want you to be. What you want doesn't matter.

See:
Perhaps. Alternatively, many women will work until they have children and leave, at least until their children are well on their way in their schooling. Studying survey data on personal well-being, Marianne Bertrand of the University of Chicago found that college-educated mothers with careers were no more satisfied with their lives, and might be less so, than stay-at-home college-educated mothers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/25/b...rican-women-is-it-enough-to-lean-in.html?_r=0
 

Spungo

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2012
3,217
2
81
In 1991 there was another accident where a 9 ton piece of steel fell on a man and cut him in half. The incident happened on a saturday, and I just happened to be off that day. The piece of steel caught him across his mid-section. Eye witnesses told me the only thing holding the guy together was where the steel pinched his flesh.

Who is the privileged class? The man who was pulled out in two parts, or his wife who was at home?

I think Hillary Clinton said it best:
Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat. Women often have to flee from the only homes they have ever known. Women are often the refugees from conflict and sometimes, more frequently in today’s warfare, victims. Women are often left with the responsibility, alone, of raising the children.
(she openly admits how much she hates life and would rather die than be forced to move or be a parent)

Women may have simply priced themselves out of the family market.
The courts are responsible for that. Most guys don't seem to mind spending money and resources on women and children because that has been the norm since the dawn of civilization. What's different about modern America is that courts punish men for trying to do the right thing. Date a single mother? Hell no. The courts could force you to pay for her children. Letting a single mother live with you is a terrible idea because she could try to claim common law marriage and still take half a guy's stuff. Several of the guys I've dated said they had no plan to ever get married because they had seen friends or family members get destroyed in divorce court. On top of all that, add in the stat that women get child custody about 90% of the time. With a divorce rate around 50%, that means there's roughly a 45% chance of a man being forced to pay for kids that he rarely sees. (0.9)(0.5) = 0.45. Of those 45%, some of them will even go to debtor's prison because child support and alimony have been ruled to be criminal matters rather than civil matters. Dave Foley was on Joe Rogan's podcast explaining how the court ordered him to pay more than 100% of his income. This is not unusual at all. The Young Turks covered a story a few years ago where a man was thrown in jail for failing to pay child support for someone else's kids. Men might be stupid, but even the dumb ones can see this trap from a mile away. Men are protesting by going Galt.

Modern men also seem to be genuinely afraid of children. A simple accusation of being a pedophile is enough to destroy a man, so men avoid children at all cost. Men are no longer becoming teachers or child care workers. Men avoid pediatric medicine. One family was trying to get family photographs developed, and Walmart called the police because the film contained pictures of children playing in a bath tub.

A lot of people will blame feminists for this screwed up legal system, but I place the blame on men. Why? Because men were in charge when this started. It was male judges who showed extreme bias against men in divorce court. It was male judges who ordered child support for someone else's kids. It was male politicians and judges who made the 10 year alimony rule. After 10 years of marriage, the woman gets alimony for life if the two get divorced. This law by itself strongly encourages women to get divorced even if a marriage is relatively healthy. Going back to that 45% I mentioned earlier, men have very little reason to want marriage or children. Your marriage will likely end, your children will likely be taken away, and you'll lose the stuff you owned before you got married.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
I think Hillary Clinton said it best:
Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat. Women often have to flee from the only homes they have ever known. Women are often the refugees from conflict and sometimes, more frequently in today’s warfare, victims. Women are often left with the responsibility, alone, of raising the children.
(she openly admits how much she hates life and would rather die than be forced to move or be a parent)

I "love" this quote. It shows how incredibly sexist liberals really are.

Apparently according to them if a man gets his head blown off he is not actually the victim. His mother/wife/daughter is. Interesting that his father/son are not victims though huh? Probably because they died in the last war or are just cannonfodder for the next war.

How can you seriously say that men exist merely as cannonfodder and then try and claim male privilege exists?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,836
49,538
136
How can you seriously say that men exist merely as cannonfodder and then try and claim male privilege exists?

lol. Now nehalem has moved to denying male privilege in its entirety. Your stupidity truly knows no boundaries.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
106
The courts are responsible for that. Most guys don't seem to mind spending money and resources on women and children because that has been the norm since the dawn of civilization.

<snip>

This law by itself strongly encourages women to get divorced even if a marriage is relatively healthy. Going back to that 45% I mentioned earlier, men have very little reason to want marriage or children. Your marriage will likely end, your children will likely be taken away, and you'll lose the stuff you owned before you got married.

Probably the most frank and honest post in this thread.

Bravo, and well said - and I am not being sarcastic either.

With the women rights movement came a wave of laws that are basically anti-men.

It is politically correct to financially punish a man for having child. The same can not be said about women.

During one of my child support reviews I saw a man arrested in the court room for owing $7,000 in back support. The man was arrested right there in the court room and chained to a bench. The judge just happened to be a woman.

I personally know a man who has custody of his child. His ex-wife owes something like $20,000 in back support. The child support office refuses to issue a warrant for her arrest.

A man can be arrested for owing $7k, while a woman who owes $20k is ignored.

That is not justice, that is discrimination at its finest.

And society wonders why men do not want to get married or have children?
 
Last edited:

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
lol. Now nehalem has moved to denying male privilege in its entirety. Your stupidity truly knows no boundaries.

Is this what privilege looks like bro?



Basically the whole idea of male "privilege" rests on the idea that power has tended to be held by a small minority of people that happen to be male and therefore the 99% of men without real power should take solace in knowing that they are being sent to their deaths by people with similar looking genitals.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,836
49,538
136
Is this what privilege looks like bro?

Basically the whole idea of male "privilege" rests on the idea that power has tended to be held by a small minority of people that happen to be male and therefore the 99% of men without real power should take solace in knowing that they are being sent to their deaths by people with similar looking genitals.

lol. 'A tiny fraction of men die in wars, therefore the privilege that men exhibit in the rest of society on a continuing basis doesn't count.'

It is always fun to see the knots you twist yourself in to justify your hatred of women.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
106
lol. 'A tiny fraction of men die in wars, therefore the privilege that men exhibit in the rest of society on a continuing basis doesn't count.'

It is always fun to see the knots you twist yourself in to justify your hatred of women.

Tell me about this privilege when more men are arrested for not paying child support than women.
 
Last edited:
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |