Political Issues & Party Polarization . . .

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Washington Post

Rather interesting read about the evolution of Party Politics & the polarization within.

(Clip) -

One of today's popular myths is that we've become a more "polarized" society. We're said to be divided increasingly by politics (liberals vs. conservatives), social values (traditionalists vs. modernists), religion (fundamentalists vs. everyone else), race and ethnicity. What's actually happened is that our political and media elites have become polarized, and they assume that this is true for everyone else. It isn't.</NITF> One of today's popular myths is that we've become a more "polarized" society. We're said to be divided increasingly by politics (liberals vs. conservatives), social values (traditionalists vs. modernists), religion (fundamentalists vs. everyone else), race and ethnicity. What's actually happened is that our political and media elites have become polarized, and they assume that this is true for everyone else. It isn't.

Anyone who lived through the 1960s, when struggles over Vietnam and civil rights spilled into the streets and split families, must know that we're much less polarized today. It's not a close call. Unlike then, today's polarization exists mainly on the public stage among politicians, TV talking heads, columnists and intellectuals. Still, the polarization myth persists. Consider a new report from the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press, which bulges with public opinion data that show (it says) "rising political polarization and anger." Actually, the data -- stretching from the late 1980s until now -- don't show that at all.

It's true that over this period political allegiances have shifted slightly. Republicans gained, Democrats lost. As late as 1987, about 35 percent of adults considered themselves Democrats, 26 percent Republicans and 39 percent independents (including those who "don't know"). Now it's a dead heat: 31 percent Democrats, 30 percent Republicans and 39 percent independents. Gaps on some issues between political parties have predictably widened. If Democrats favoring a stronger military become Republican, party differences on that issue will rise.

But polarization -- a visceral loathing of your opponent -- increases only if partisans feel more rabidly about their views. Here, little has changed. One standard survey question is whether Democrats and Republicans consider themselves "strong" party members. In the late 1980s slightly less than half of Republicans considered themselves "strong" Republicans; it's still slightly less than half. Among Democrats, about half are now "strong" and were then, too.

Beyond partisan divisions, Americans share many basic beliefs. After Sept. 11, 2001, patriotism remains high. Most people (two-thirds or more) believe that hard work promotes success. Indeed, many opinions have hardly budged since the late 1980s. Surveys asked whether:

? The United States should be "active in world affairs" -- 87 percent said yes in 1987, 90 percent now.

? "Government should restrict and control people coming into our country" more than it does -- 76 percent agreed in 1992, 77 percent now.

? "There is too much power concentrated in the hands of a few big companies" -- 77 percent said so in both 1987 and 2003.

What's more important is that the changes that have occurred -- generally outside politics -- signal more, not less, tolerance, as the Pew data show. There seems to be a general shift in attitudes, led by changes among the young. Consider race. In 1987, 48 percent thought it "all right for blacks and whites to date"; now 77 percent do. Something similar has occurred on homosexuality. By a 51 percent to 42 percent margin, Americans believed in 1987 that "school boards ought to have the right to fire teachers who are known homosexuals''; now that's rejected, 62 percent to 33 percent.

Sociologist Alan Wolfe of Boston College, after conducting extensive interviews with middle-class families, reached similar conclusions. "Reluctant to pass judgment, they are tolerant to a fault, not about everything -- they have not come to accept homosexuality as normal and they intensely dislike bilingualism -- but about a surprising number of things, including rapid transformation in the family, legal immigration, multicultural education and separation of church and state," he wrote in "One Nation, After All" (1999).

This tolerance, Wolfe argued, springs partly from middle-class fears that "our society might become hopelessly divided." Cherishing "the belief in one nation," many ordinary Americans disdain fierce moral combat. Wolfe decided that the vaunted "culture war" is "being fought primarily by intellectuals."

Just so. Today's polarization mainly divides the broad public from political, intellectual and media elites. Of course, sharp differences define democracy. We've always had them. From Iraq to homosexual marriage, deep disagreements remain. But the venom of today's debates often transcends disagreement. Your opponents -- whether liberal or conservative -- must not only have bad ideas. Increasingly, they must also be bad people who are dishonest, selfish and venal.

Among politicians, the bitterness reflects less political competition, especially in the House of Representatives. Democrats and Republicans increasingly have safe seats. In 2002, 83 percent of House incumbents won at least 60 percent of the vote; in 1992 only 66 percent of incumbents won with that margin. As a result, members speak more to their parties' "bases," which provide most electoral and financial support. There's less need to appeal to the center. The Founders saw the House as responding quickly to public opinion. But "the barometer is broken," says veteran congressional correspondent Richard E. Cohen of National Journal.

As for media and intellectual elites -- commentators, academics, columnists, professional advocates -- they're in an attention-grabbing competition. They need to establish themselves as brand names. For many, stridency is a strategy. The right feeds off the left and the left feeds off the right, and although their mutual criticisms constitute legitimate debate, they're also economic commodities. To be regarded by one side as a lunatic is to be regarded by the other as a hero -- and that can usually be taken to the bank through more TV appearances, higher lecture fees, fatter book sales and larger audiences and group memberships. Polarization serves their interests. Principle and self-promotion blend.

All this is understandable and, in a democracy, perhaps unavoidable. But it distorts who we are and poses a latent danger: Someday we might become as hopelessly polarized as we're already supposed to be.
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
0
0
That's a good article.

This pretty much sums up my view of the "Bush haters". I'm sure it applies elsewhere as well, on both sides of the political spectrum.

Of course, sharp differences define democracy. We've always had them. From Iraq to homosexual marriage, deep disagreements remain. But the venom of today's debates often transcends disagreement. Your opponents -- whether liberal or conservative -- must not only have bad ideas. Increasingly, they must also be bad people who are dishonest, selfish and venal.
 

Athanasius

Senior member
Nov 16, 1999
975
0
0
Wow- I just read that article and was thinking it would be a good piece of info for AT. So I head to "Politics and News" and here it is!

I find the article interesting because AT is so polarized. I think especially this quote is relevant:
Today's polarization mainly divides the broad public from political, intellectual and media elites. Of course, sharp differences define democracy. We've always had them. From Iraq to homosexual marriage, deep disagreements remain. But the venom of today's debates often transcends disagreement. Your opponents -- whether liberal or conservative -- must not only have bad ideas. Increasingly, they must also be bad people who are dishonest, selfish and venal.

Maybe AT is so polarized because we are intellectual wannabes.
 

rjain

Golden Member
May 1, 2003
1,475
0
0
I find it strange that while most people are supposedly tolerant on social and religious issues, the party in power is the one that is fiercely intolerant. I guess their idea of tolerance is to allow the enforcement of intolerance.

What exactly was the source of the Republicans' poltical power, then? Most Republicans I know based their political decisions on religious intolerance, but I've been in predominantly Democratic areas for the past 5 years, so I guess the Republicans would be more likely to be the extremists.
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
0
0
CaptKirk:

Nice post.

Media elites DO use stridency as a strategy to pull in viewers. Fox Cartoon Network led the way and now you have several others following suit. Men, in particular, get easily sucked into the sort of dominace related programming that is prevalent in political talk shows. This was my point about Buckley. Always a gentleman, though sometimes with some pretty creative barbs. Bill O'Wiley is the exact opposite because he was a nobody and is now a somebody to some people because he uses barbaric tactics and seems willing to employ any strategy, e.g. lieing, interrupting, screaming at them, to DOMINATE his guests.

FWIW, I've found that it doesn't matter what my friend's political views are because I always like them for other reasons. They write well, or they are funny, athletic, etc. Politics is a fun and occasionally intellectual exercise, but it defines almost no one.

-Robert
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
I've disliked every president/politician. Thier primary goal is to restrict individual liberty and responsiblities while pandering to votes. Today they are dominated by money from all angles and are only representing 1-2%. Almost every bill passed today has a phalynx of lobbiests decend on Washington DC trading compaign money and benefits for favors which usually don't represent the intrests of the majority. Medicare reform is a good example whereby they lobbied to keep all drug prices full-retail with no-collective negotiation possible. In every other transaction you get a discount for volume. Not here. And no going to canada either. Stock holders yaaa millions of retired and the millions payors nay.
 

Witling

Golden Member
Jul 30, 2003
1,448
0
0
It was an interesting article. My favorite part was,

"Wolfe decided that the vaunted "culture war" is "being fought primarily by intellectuals.""

If you add "idealogues" too, I'd say it would be dead accurate. We need to add "idealogues" because some of the extremely stupid people on the _ _ _[liberal/conservative]_ _ _ (choose one) side can't be considered "intellectuals."
 

miguel

Senior member
Nov 2, 2001
621
0
0
Whit, it's funny how you seem so objective sometimes, but you have a sig that casts an insult to the "right": Slow thinkers keep right Or am I off base and it's a reference to driving rules?
 

Witling

Golden Member
Jul 30, 2003
1,448
0
0
What follows is a moralizing rant! I wouldn't read it if I hadn't written it.

Gee, I hadn't thought of it as a political statement. Miguel, my take on all of this is that the news media has completely failed us when it comes to turning up and publishing facts. That means that the basic facts themselves are in dispute. In addition, some of the most contested things are incredibly factually complicated and the truth is incapable of being known. Take Israel and Palestine. I'll never know the truth about it but there is no doubt in any objective observer's mind that the Israeli government is abusing the hell out of Palestinians. But, to return to objectivity, this board and the Internet provide a wonderful chance to narrow down the facts. Sources are extremely important and they show up in the links. You can decide for yourself how much credit you want to give the opinion or story, but at least the opinion or story is static and available to all. There are some on this board, however, who do not attempt to deal in facts but would rather blame the entire thing on the _ _ _[liberals / conservatives]_ _ _. As an example, I'm stunned when conservatives complain of people hating Bush and that everything is motivated by that hate. I mean, look at what the conservatives did with Clinton -- what did the White Water inquiry cost $6 million? I have repeatedly asked "How well has bashing people worked for Israel?" I'd like to say that no one has answered that but one person did. The rest on the right ignore it. There is a reality out there and not believing in it is not helpful. I don't know of any reputable authority who thought that a democracy could be established in Iraq. I did get one person to agree that if no weapons of mass destruction were found in Iraq within five years then that person might be willing to admit that there were none. My current signature goes along with my feeling that "Against stupidity, the gods themselves strive in vain." Schiller

 

miguel

Senior member
Nov 2, 2001
621
0
0
Originally posted by: Whitling
What follows is a moralizing rant! I wouldn't read it if I hadn't written it.

Gee, I hadn't thought of it as a political statement. Miguel, my take on all of this is that the news media has completely failed us when it comes to turning up and publishing facts. That means that the basic facts themselves are in dispute. In addition, some of the most contested things are incredibly factually complicated and the truth is incapable of being known. Take Israel and Palestine. I'll never know the truth about it but there is no doubt in any objective observer's mind that the Israeli government is abusing the hell out of Palestinians. But, to return to objectivity, this board and the Internet provide a wonderful chance to narrow down the facts. Sources are extremely important and they show up in the links. You can decide for yourself how much credit you want to give the opinion or story, but at least the opinion or story is static and available to all. There are some on this board, however, who do not attempt to deal in facts but would rather blame the entire thing on the _ _ _[liberals / conservatives]_ _ _. As an example, I'm stunned when conservatives complain of people hating Bush and that everything is motivated by that hate. I mean, look at what the conservatives did with Clinton -- what did the White Water inquiry cost $6 million? I have repeatedly asked "How well has bashing people worked for Israel?" I'd like to say that no one has answered that but one person did. The rest on the right ignore it. There is a reality out there and not believing in it is not helpful. I don't know of any reputable authority who thought that a democracy could be established in Iraq. I did get one person to agree that if no weapons of mass destruction were found in Iraq within five years then that person might be willing to admit that there were none. My current signature goes along with my feeling that "Against stupidity, the gods themselves strive in vain." Schiller

Well, I read it, even if you wrote it.

Yes, I absolutely agree that there are extremists on both sides. Clinton was filleted and deep-fried by the right, but he did light the fire and pour the oil, if you know what I mean. From my observation though, you cannot compare the constant Bush-bashing (and again, don't get me wrong, I'll objectively look at every argument that has merit and not based in name-calling and innuendos) with the non-answering of your questions when you felt certain people should have answered. It's just not the same thing. I'll gladly try to discuss Isreal/Palestine and Iraq objectively, but whenever I try to I seem to get dismissed with "you are sheep" and called a "Bushie." One guy in another thread even admitted that he had his mind made up and will not change. That's the kind of attitude that creates polarization.
 

Witling

Golden Member
Jul 30, 2003
1,448
0
0
Yes, and I expect better out of the stuff that appears on this board. Sometimes I get it.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: rjain
I find it strange that while most people are supposedly tolerant on social and religious issues, the party in power is the one that is fiercely intolerant. I guess their idea of tolerance is to allow the enforcement of intolerance.

What exactly was the source of the Republicans' poltical power, then? Most Republicans I know based their political decisions on religious intolerance, but I've been in predominantly Democratic areas for the past 5 years, so I guess the Republicans would be more likely to be the extremists.

I thought the source of Republican power was angry white guys and NASCAR dads?
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
It's true that over this period political allegiances have shifted slightly. Republicans gained, Democrats lost. As late as 1987, about 35 percent of adults considered themselves Democrats, 26 percent Republicans and 39 percent independents (including those who "don't know"). Now it's a dead heat: 31 percent Democrats, 30 percent Republicans and 39 percent independents. Gaps on some issues between political parties have predictably widened. If Democrats favoring a stronger military become Republican, party differences on that issue will rise.

See? It's like I always say: the independents in this country could have a solid party with those kinds of numbers. They just need a decent candidate (NO, not Nader) and to get their collective sheet together.
 

rjain

Golden Member
May 1, 2003
1,475
0
0
Originally posted by: DealMonkey

See? It's like I always say: the independents in this country could have a solid party with those kinds of numbers. They just need a decent candidate (NO, not Nader) and to get their collective sheet together.
"Independent" isn't a political view. "Independent" can mean Islamic fundamentalist or Marxist communist. I doubt a single candidate would appeal to either.
 

miguel

Senior member
Nov 2, 2001
621
0
0
In the real world, "Independent" means not being tied to all the beliefs of a single party. I don't know how you can think "Independent" can mean islamic fundamentalist or communist...
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: rjain
Originally posted by: DealMonkey

See? It's like I always say: the independents in this country could have a solid party with those kinds of numbers. They just need a decent candidate (NO, not Nader) and to get their collective sheet together.
"Independent" isn't a political view. "Independent" can mean Islamic fundamentalist or Marxist communist. I doubt a single candidate would appeal to either.

While I agree it's no where near as unified as Democrat or Republican (although one could argue even those camps having diverging views on the issues), I don't see why "Independent" couldn't be a legitimate political party? I guess I don't understand where you're coming from.
 

rjain

Golden Member
May 1, 2003
1,475
0
0
How can you say that everyone that doesn't agree with the Democrats or the Republicans can be grouped into one platform? There are ultraconservative independents and ultraliberal independents. How will you find one candidate for them?
 

miguel

Senior member
Nov 2, 2001
621
0
0
The whole idea for being an independent is that you are not tied to a single party. Making an "independent party" would be an oxymoron.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
You both have good points, however there are examples of Independent candidates in the past (Nader, Perot). They may not be good examples, however they both garnered some support.
 

miguel

Senior member
Nov 2, 2001
621
0
0
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
You both have good points, however there are examples of Independent candidates in the past (Nader, Perot). They may not be good examples, however they both garnered some support.

You have good points yourself. Perot, sure. He was weird, but hey, I'd give him my $$$ to invest. Nader? C'mon, get real! The guy is nutz!

The above is an example of why you can't have an independent party candidate.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: miguel
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
You both have good points, however there are examples of Independent candidates in the past (Nader, Perot). They may not be good examples, however they both garnered some support.

You have good points yourself. Perot, sure. He was weird, but hey, I'd give him my $$$ to invest. Nader? C'mon, get real! The guy is nutz!

The above is an example of why you can't have an independent party candidate.

Well, there is one unifying issue amongst Independents: They dislike both the Republican and Democratic parties. Sometimes the candidate with the most support is the one the voters dislike the least. You're both right in that an Independent candidate would have to find common ground in a demographic of wildly diverging attitudes. With the right candidate, he/she might even suck some of the votes from traditional party voters. Nader took a chunk of democrats with him in 2000.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |