POLL ADDED: AEG and NVIDIA's "Viral"'outreach programme' targets Forums

[Topweasel]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Markbnj

People who receive free hardware from manufacturers in order to spread their opinion of said company are receiving payment for doing so. Therefore they are now employed, in some manner, by that company and their statements in matters related to the products produced by that company or its competitors are now suspect.

That's one of the more ridiculous statements in a thread full of them. What if they don't like the hardware and think it sucks? Would the company "employ" them to say that? The company already believes its stuff is good, and so they put it in the hands of knowlegeable people hoping that they will agree and spread the word. That's all there is to it. If companies were not willing to donate some hardware to get the word out about a product, you'd never read a review again, because most print and webzines run on a profit margin smaller than the amount of truth and reason in this thread.

That's why nVidia chose AEG - the "best" in their field . . . again . . . they MONITOR the forums to approach carefully chosen "respected" members . . . those who [obviously] already like the product.

If is was as simple as you claim, there would be full disclosure from nVidia. We would know who they are. Why are they hiding if there is nothing to hide.


How is it that you can speak for nVidia?
:Q

They Hide because of people like you. They Hide it because people will automatically discredit them for recieving their product from them no matter the manufacturer. Most pople can reason but any anti will make it their goal to call them out on every topic they become part of. Actually its kind of funny this is exactly what happens to Rollo, to bad for him he hasn't gotten any free toys, Me I wouldn't care what someone said about me as long has I had the toys, and know for a fact I am not doing anything that goes against my own views as unethical. To me what is Un-ethincal is people saying (actors, sportsmen and such) talking up a product during an interview that they never once used or saying something is good when its junk and they know it. As long as I am not asked to only say the views of the company and not my own opinion, thats when I would have a problem with it, then I would be a happy accepter of such gifts.

 

[Markbnj]

How is it that you can speak for nVidia?

I try to avoid ad hominem attacks, and thus find myself unable to accurately comment on your assertion that I was attempting to speak for nVidia. I will, however, say that your reasoning is somewhat suspect.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Topweasel

Do You ever listen to yourself talk. You just said AT is big and Nvidia has AEG hard at work, This means they have already have mass AT infection. Thats statement 1 and 2 and statement 3 is the same thing restated as "Putting 1 and 2 together". 4. You say its secretive. Your Making alot of assumtions and conecting dots based on conjecture, and covering up lack of any real proof by saying its secretive silly what do you expect.

While I don't doubt that their maybe a few people presented with gifts by AEG, calling it the cause of exodus on AT is insane when their is no real way of telling if it has "infected" at and the the "infected" people are the ones causing people to leave.

Well there's one smart person here.

It's pretty laughable how these theories are growing in scope to where "Every third member of AT is paid a six figure salary by AEG, funnelled through a Swiss bank account so it can't traced! Once a month, all these people are flown to a secret island where they get a months supply of FUD to disseminate, and 6 new computers! Wouldn't you jump at a chance for such a glamorous lifestyle as a bought and paid for viral marketing specialist?!?!"

:roll:

Probably more like: "Here's a video card, try it out, post what you think."

I'm wasting my time though, as noted earlier, some will say this is evil even if there were caveats in the membership that stated no FUD/no anti ATI/no bias. Those people would still squeel "Waaah- why can't we know everything about all of this big businesses marketing procedures, after all, I bought a used 9800 once- they owe me!"
:roll:

 

[Topweasel]

Originally posted by: Markbnj

How is it that you can speak for nVidia?

I try to avoid ad hominem attacks, and thus find myself unable to accurately comment on your assertion that I was attempting to speak for nVidia. I will, however, say that your reasoning is somewhat suspect.

Its funny, you have stated a you agree with a tatic they don't like apparently adopted by Nvidia. This makes you one of three things, 1. Nvidia PR 2. AEG mod 3. AEG agent or viral Carrier 4. Nvidia Fanboy.

What they don't understand is that you like me are actually just stating 1. That this type of advertising is old 2. Not Evil 3. No proof of Viral carriers for them to point their fingers at. 4. This is just a bunch of people making to much off of to little.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Markbnj

How is it that you can speak for nVidia?

I try to avoid ad hominem attacks, and thus find myself unable to accurately comment on your assertion that I was attempting to speak for nVidia. I will, however, say that your reasoning is somewhat suspect.

your words:

. . . so they put it in the hands of knowlegeable people hoping that they will agree and spread the word. That's all there is to it.

just curious how you knew.
[you don't]
------------------------------

Originally posted by: Topweasel

Originally posted by: apoppin

That's why nVidia chose AEG - the "best" in their field . . . again . . . they MONITOR the forums to approach carefully chosen "respected" members . . . those who [obviously] already like the product.

If is was as simple as you claim, there would be full disclosure from nVidia. We would know who they are. Why are they hiding if there is nothing to hide.

They Hide because of people like you. They Hide it because people will automatically discredit them for recieving their product from them no matter the manufacturer. Most pople can reason but any anti will make it their goal to call them out on every topic they become part of. Actually its kind of funny this is exactly what happens to Rollo, to bad for him he hasn't gotten any free toys, Me I wouldn't care what someone said about me as long has I had the toys, and know for a fact I am not doing anything that goes against my own views as unethical. To me what is Un-ethincal is people saying (actors, sportsmen and such) talking up a product during an interview that they never once used or saying something is good when its junk and they know it. As long as I am not asked to only say the views of the company and not my own opinion, thats when I would have a problem with it, then I would be a happy accepter of such gifts.

People like me - with ethics [something you cannot relate to] - would respect people who disclose instead of hiding.

let someone else explain it to you . . . i can't help you understand what is "ethical" and what is not.

Viral marketing - which nVidia embraces - is unethical and hopefully soon-to-be illegal.

88 to 36 on our poll understand it is NOT ethical.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: Rollo
Well there's one smart person here.

It's pretty laughable how these theories are growing in scope to where "Every third member of AT is paid a six figure salary by AEG, funnelled through a Swiss bank account so it can't traced! Once a month, all these people are flown to a secret island where they get a months supply of FUD to disseminate, and 6 new computers! Wouldn't you jump at a chance for such a glamorous lifestyle as a bought and paid for viral marketing specialist?!?!"

:roll:

Probably more like: "Here's a video card, try it out, post what you think."

I'm wasting my time though, as noted earlier, some will say this is evil even if there were caveats in the membership that stated no FUD/no anti ATI/no bias. Those people would still squeel "Waaah- why can't we know everything about all of this big businesses marketing procedures, after all, I bought a used 9800 once- they owe me!"
:roll:

I think that putting it as being "evil" is a bit strong, but it does weaken the forum overall, and I think that most people would resent having some of the conversations we've had on this forum with a "compensated endorser". I generally keep up with what's going on with video hardware, so I don't really need a lot of advice, but there are lots of people that do ask for help.

Let's put the shoe on the other foot for a moment... Say someone was asking for a recommendation on a really good $100-150 card, and some ATI endorsed shill starting pushing the X1300 as the best thing since sliced bread. So, you mention the 6600 DDR2 as a better alternative, which of course incites the usual peanut gallery to launch into their anti-Rollo campaign? The end result is that the shill looks like the reasonable one and you looking like the bad guy, and the OP is confused and gets bad advice. All of this happens because some shill has to make their overlord happy. Not my idea of a good forum.

I do agree with you though that the magnitude of this has been blown out of proportion. That being said, it's sad to think that any respectable poster would actually be swayed by some free hardware. I mean video cards aren't that expensive. If I was a AEG/NV shill for my rig, I wouldn't be making jack for the amount of time I spend in AT forums.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: Rollo
Well there's one smart person here.

It's pretty laughable how these theories are growing in scope to where "Every third member of AT is paid a six figure salary by AEG, funnelled through a Swiss bank account so it can't traced! Once a month, all these people are flown to a secret island where they get a months supply of FUD to disseminate, and 6 new computers! Wouldn't you jump at a chance for such a glamorous lifestyle as a bought and paid for viral marketing specialist?!?!"

:roll:

Probably more like: "Here's a video card, try it out, post what you think."

I'm wasting my time though, as noted earlier, some will say this is evil even if there were caveats in the membership that stated no FUD/no anti ATI/no bias. Those people would still squeel "Waaah- why can't we know everything about all of this big businesses marketing procedures, after all, I bought a used 9800 once- they owe me!"
:roll:

I think that putting it as being "evil" is a bit strong, but it does weaken the forum overall, and I think that most people would resent having some of the conversations we've had on this forum with a "compensated endorser". I generally keep up with what's going on with video hardware, so I don't really need a lot of advice, but there are lots of people that do ask for help.

Let's put the shoe on the other foot for a moment... Say someone was asking for a recommendation on a really good $100-150 card, and some ATI endorsed shill starting pushing the X1300 as the best thing since sliced bread. So, you mention the 6600 DDR2 as a better alternative, which of course incites the usual peanut gallery to launch into their anti-Rollo campaign? The end result is that the shill looks like the reasonable one and you looking like the bad guy, and the OP is confused and gets bad advice. All of this happens because some shill has to make their overlord happy. Not my idea of a good forum.

I do agree with you though that the magnitude of this has been blown out of proportion. That being said, it's sad to think that any respectable poster would actually be swayed by some free hardware. I mean video cards aren't that expensive. If I was a AEG/NV shill for my rig, I wouldn't be making jack for the amount of time I spend in AT forums.

a typical troll tactic is to exaggerate to the point of ridculous what their opponent is saying. . . . We are actually saying it is "unethical" or "wrong" - NOT "evil".

yes it is sad that some people "sell out" [although they don't consider themsselves to be 'sellouts'] . . .but videocards ARE that expensive:

2x$750+$200=$1700 for a dual Ultras/SLI MB for their top posters' rig might be a nice incentive
. . . IF you could even find 512GTXes for MSRP :Q

heck ONE 512GTX would be a great incentive for an unethical person . . .

 

[Thorny]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Topweasel

Do You ever listen to yourself talk. You just said AT is big and Nvidia has AEG hard at work, This means they have already have mass AT infection. Thats statement 1 and 2 and statement 3 is the same thing restated as "Putting 1 and 2 together". 4. You say its secretive. Your Making alot of assumtions and conecting dots based on conjecture, and covering up lack of any real proof by saying its secretive silly what do you expect.

While I don't doubt that their maybe a few people presented with gifts by AEG, calling it the cause of exodus on AT is insane when their is no real way of telling if it has "infected" at and the the "infected" people are the ones causing people to leave.

Well there's one smart person here.

It's pretty laughable how these theories are growing in scope to where "Every third member of AT is paid a six figure salary by AEG, funnelled through a Swiss bank account so it can't traced! Once a month, all these people are flown to a secret island where they get a months supply of FUD to disseminate, and 6 new computers! Wouldn't you jump at a chance for such a glamorous lifestyle as a bought and paid for viral marketing specialist?!?!"

:roll:

Probably more like: "Here's a video card, try it out, post what you think."

I'm wasting my time though, as noted earlier, some will say this is evil even if there were caveats in the membership that stated no FUD/no anti ATI/no bias. Those people would still squeel "Waaah- why can't we know everything about all of this big businesses marketing procedures, after all, I bought a used 9800 once- they owe me!"
:roll:

Your right, there are many people that reiceve cards in that manner, they are called REVIEWERS. They are given/loaned the cards because they are qualified to make analysis of the hardware in question and can/are held accountable for what they say from both readers and the giver of said hardware. I don't see many reviewers out there that recieve hardware from ONE company only and providing objective reviews comparing cards. I thinks the reasons for that are obvious. Viral marketing removes the neutral and objective aspect from the review, and anonimity keeps the company safe from any bogus hype/rival-bashing or any other type of accountability for what is said.

I for one could care less how a company markets thier products, as I am confident in my own ability to sift through the B.S. I do however think that it is un-ethical for a company to use secretive means to advertise thier product. If comany X wants to hire Peyton Manning to pimp thier sub-par product, fine. I know its just an ad. But if they come pay my buddy to secretly pimp it to me, they've violated my trust. I love capitalism, don't get me wrong, but when a company cares more about thier bottom line than thier integrity and character, I'm saddend.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: Topweasel

Originally posted by: RobertR1
Here's some common sense for you:

1. anandtech is a very popular site with a large membership and it's forums consist of a giant online community.

2. nvidia is highly active in their viral marketing programs as clearly indicated by that job posting. http://www.creativeheads.net/JobDetails.aspx?JobID=795

3. Putting 1 and 2 together, this would the ideal site on their list. No need to waste resources on nvnews or other such nvidia enthusiast sites since people there are already your customer base.

4. No one involved is going to blow their own cover. You'd have to quite naive to believe that.

Do You ever listen to yourself talk. You just said AT is big and Nvidia has AEG hard at work, This means they have already have mass AT infection. Thats statement 1 and 2 and statement 3 is the same thing restated as "Putting 1 and 2 together". 4. You say its secretive. Your Making alot of assumtions and conecting dots based on conjecture, and covering up lack of any real proof by saying its secretive silly what do you expect.

To rebut, do you even think before you post? He did said that AT is big and Nvidia has AEG hard at work. He then said that AT would be a very likely candidate for this type of marketing campaign. That's it.

Issues of whether or not they are actually pursuing the Anandtech message boards, the number of AEG funded people posting on the boards (if any) are and always will be unknown to us. It would make a lot of sense for Nvidia to have representatives posting in AT due to the size of the membersip and how much traffic it gets. Whether or not this is an avenue Nvidia/AEG actually pursue is another issue entirely, and saying that "AT already has a mass infection" is inferring a conclusion out of a premise that makes allowance for possible/probable "infection," not certainty!

Of course he's making conjecture, that's what terms like "this would be an ideal site" mean - a bit of conjecture! There are no facts about actual AEG members and posting style, only that it exists and a rough idea of what it even does. You speak like a Bushian zealous anti-intellectual who thinks that anything conjectured is bad - conjecture, given the right circumstances, can be a powerful tool of deduction! Especially when there's actual proof of (in this case):

1. The existance of AEG
2. Nvidia's use of it
3. Nvidia actively seeking employees for "viral marketing"

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Topweasel

Do You ever listen to yourself talk. You just said AT is big and Nvidia has AEG hard at work, This means they have already have mass AT infection. Thats statement 1 and 2 and statement 3 is the same thing restated as "Putting 1 and 2 together". 4. You say its secretive. Your Making alot of assumtions and conecting dots based on conjecture, and covering up lack of any real proof by saying its secretive silly what do you expect.

While I don't doubt that their maybe a few people presented with gifts by AEG, calling it the cause of exodus on AT is insane when their is no real way of telling if it has "infected" at and the the "infected" people are the ones causing people to leave.

Well there's one smart person here.

Is Topweasel the only smart one here aside from Your Highness because of the merit of his post, or is that because he's one of the few who agrees with you? :roll:

It's pretty laughable how these theories are growing in scope to where "Every third member of AT is paid a six figure salary by AEG, funnelled through a Swiss bank account so it can't traced! Once a month, all these people are flown to a secret island where they get a months supply of FUD to disseminate, and 6 new computers! Wouldn't you jump at a chance for such a glamorous lifestyle as a bought and paid for viral marketing specialist?!?!"

You're the only one coming up with asinine examples like "every third member of AT is paid a six figure salary by AEG." But that's what you do - bait others by mocking legitimate posts with stupid bobble-head proclamations like above. Go Nvidia Power!!!! I don't see how a rational person argues as fervently as you do unless they're a.) a fanboy, or b.) have some other connection to the company . Any little thing, no matter the issue, if it makes Nvidia look bad, you will take the opposite view. Anything that ATI does that looks bad (often based on weakly supported conjecture), you will take up the torch and do the community service by bringing light to said issue. Your bias is pervasive beyond the point of obviousness!

Probably more like: "Here's a video card, try it out, post what you think."

I'm wasting my time though, as noted earlier, some will say this is evil even if there were caveats in the membership that stated no FUD/no anti ATI/no bias. Those people would still squeel "Waaah- why can't we know everything about all of this big businesses marketing procedures, after all, I bought a used 9800 once- they owe me!"
:roll:

Point me to someone who called this type of posting evil. Even better: which AT regulars called this type of marketing evil? In typical Rollo fashion you've thrown in a knock on an ATI product, right on cue. Are you a person, Rollo, or an algorithm that parses message boards and generates automatic replies?

-Parody the person and make baseless extrapolations of their post (check)
-Blow a point out of proportion, eg someone calling something bad or unethical gets stretched into a caricature by saying they called it evil (check)
-Throw in one (or more) knocks on ATI (check)

 

[nitromullet]

2x$750+$200=$1700 for a dual Ultras/SLI MB rig for their top posters might be a nice incentive
. . . IF you could even find 512GTXes for MSRP

apoppin
Elite Member

Posts: 19303
Joined: 03/09/2000

You'd sell that for $1700...? FIVE (soon 6) years of your own credibility...!?! Time is money too, not to mention your decency.

a typical troll tactic is to exaggerate to the point of ridculous what their opponent is saying. . . . We are actually saying it is "unethical" or "wrong" - NOT "evil".

I'm not sure who that is directed to or the context in which it was intended. The post that I quoted used the term "evil". Why are you arguing with me anyway? I think we're in agreement on this issue.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

2x$750+$200=$1700 for a dual Ultras/SLI MB rig for their top posters might be a nice incentive
. . . IF you could even find 512GTXes for MSRP

apoppin
Elite Member

Posts: 19303
Joined: 03/09/2000

You'd sell that for $1700...? FIVE (soon 6) years of your own credibility...!?! Time is money too, not to mention your decency.

a typical troll tactic is to exaggerate to the point of ridculous what their opponent is saying. . . . We are actually saying it is "unethical" or "wrong" - NOT "evil".

I'm not sure who that is directed to or the context in which it was intended. The post that I quoted used the term "evil". Why are you arguing with me anyway? I think we're in agreement on this issue.

first of all . . . ME? . . . no i wouldn't sell out my self-respect for so cheap . . . i buy alll of my own HW . . . but clearly there are those who do - and have in effect "invited" AEG to send them free stuff for pro-nVidia posting.

i am not arguing with you . . . simply ADDing to what you said.

That "troll tactic" comment was NOT directed at you . . . look back and see who ridiculed us 'anti-Viral' people by claiming we said AEG's marketing was evil . . .
:roll:

. . . i was merely commenting on the tactics of trolls . . .

 

[LikeLinus]

So...Is said person going to give an offical answer if they currently, or have ever worked for AEG and just quit skirting around the issue?

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: LikeLinus
So...Is said person going to give an offical answer if they currently, or have ever worked for AEG and just quit skirting around the issue?

Give him time to deliberate and for enough unrelated issues to pile up so he can comment on those and ignore the hard-hitting questions .

 

[nitromullet]

first of all . . . ME? . . . no i wouldn't sell out my self-respect for so cheap . . . i buy alll of my own HW . . . but clearly there are those who do - and have in effect "invited" AEG to send them free stuff for pro-nVidia posting.

i am not arguing with you . . . simply ADDing to what you said.

That "troll tactic" comment was NOT directed at you . . . look back and see who ridiculed us 'anti-Viral' people by claiming we said AEG's marketing was evil . . .


. . . i was merely commenting on the tactics of trolls . . .

Cool...

I'm not surprised by any of this though... Look at all the threads that we've had in the past with people who have destroyed their hardware through their own negligence and RMA'ed it. Regrettably, the moral fiber of this forum is lacking on occasion.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: LikeLinus
So...Is said person going to give an offical answer if they currently, or have ever worked for AEG and just quit skirting around the issue?

so far - AFAIK . . . no one . . . not a single person that has worked with AEG as a viral marketeer has stepped forward to say anything . . . there was one AT one forum member that was contacted by them but did not return their PM and i think another at Beyond3d[?] that might have taken it a step further.

i have looked at several forums' huge threads . . . this is the only one i am actively monitoring.


============

Originally posted by: nitromullet

first of all . . . ME? . . . no i wouldn't sell out my self-respect for so cheap . . . i buy alll of my own HW . . . but clearly there are those who do - and have in effect "invited" AEG to send them free stuff for pro-nVidia posting.

i am not arguing with you . . . simply ADDing to what you said.

That "troll tactic" comment was NOT directed at you . . . look back and see who ridiculed us 'anti-Viral' people by claiming we said AEG's marketing was evil . . .


. . . i was merely commenting on the tactics of trolls . . .

Cool...

I'm not surprised by any of this though... Look at all the threads that we've had in the past with people who have destroyed their hardware through their own negligence and RMA'ed it. Regrettably, the moral fiber of this forum is lacking on occasion.

agreed.

look at the numerous attempt at piracy and the "justification" for it.

Ethics is sorely lacking in the world[period]

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
I don't see how a rational person argues as fervently as you do unless they're a.) a fanboy, or b.) have some other connection to the company .

Really? What's that make Apoppin' then? I'm guessing he has TRIPLE my post count on this subject. So is he a fanboy or an ATI employee by your logic?
Or could it be he's just a hobbyist with his own agenda?

Any little thing, no matter the issue, if it makes Nvidia look bad, you will take the opposite view.

Hmmm. How is this different than the people who do the same for any little thing that makes ATI look bad? Could it possibly be the case that hobbyists on forums argue for their favorite brands?! Gee, we've never seen anything like THAT before? :roll:

Anything that ATI does that looks bad (often based on weakly supported conjecture), you will take up the torch and do the community service by bringing light to said issue. Your bias is pervasive beyond the point of obviousness!

It's pretty easy to be biased when the company your biased for is responsible for the return of SLI, the most feature rich gaming cards of the last generation, and the current high end champion?

-Parody the person and make baseless extrapolations of their post (check)
-Blow a point out of proportion, eg someone calling something bad or unethical gets stretched into a caricature by saying they called it evil (check)
-Throw in one (or more) knocks on ATI (check)

So what are your/friends tactics Jiffy?
1. Throw in references to purchase of 5800s to discredit poster. Check.
2. Hiss "biased". Check
3. Make speculative reference to unproven PR connection/tactics. Check

Get the picture?

 

[Topweasel]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Markbnj

How is it that you can speak for nVidia?

I try to avoid ad hominem attacks, and thus find myself unable to accurately comment on your assertion that I was attempting to speak for nVidia. I will, however, say that your reasoning is somewhat suspect.

your words:

. . . so they put it in the hands of knowlegeable people hoping that they will agree and spread the word. That's all there is to it.

just curious how you knew.
[you don't]
------------------------------

Originally posted by: Topweasel

Originally posted by: apoppin

That's why nVidia chose AEG - the "best" in their field . . . again . . . they MONITOR the forums to approach carefully chosen "respected" members . . . those who [obviously] already like the product.

If is was as simple as you claim, there would be full disclosure from nVidia. We would know who they are. Why are they hiding if there is nothing to hide.

They Hide because of people like you. They Hide it because people will automatically discredit them for recieving their product from them no matter the manufacturer. Most pople can reason but any anti will make it their goal to call them out on every topic they become part of. Actually its kind of funny this is exactly what happens to Rollo, to bad for him he hasn't gotten any free toys, Me I wouldn't care what someone said about me as long has I had the toys, and know for a fact I am not doing anything that goes against my own views as unethical. To me what is Un-ethincal is people saying (actors, sportsmen and such) talking up a product during an interview that they never once used or saying something is good when its junk and they know it. As long as I am not asked to only say the views of the company and not my own opinion, thats when I would have a problem with it, then I would be a happy accepter of such gifts.

People like me - with ethics [something you cannot relate to] - would respect people who disclose instead of hiding.

let someone else explain it to you . . . i can't help you understand what is "ethical" and what is not.

Viral marketing - which nVidia embraces - is unethical and hopefully soon-to-be illegal.

88 to 36 on our poll understand it is NOT ethical.

Wow so much ammo against your attempted witch hunt. Since when has statistics prove anything, If I asked everyone here if the thought killing a person in cold blod was ethical, and 75% said yes, does that make it ethical. I would hope not.

The reason the use of this tatic being in legal trouble is due to the belief that webservers are not getting paid for advertising, even though this is kind of weak since we are talking about open and free access forums.

I have ethics pretty high standard ethics at that. I don't see any of this as crossing my very tight line, except as noted earlier if certain limits on the type of marketing is crossed. Like forcing people to post troll like posts to talk up a product. But with out any proof of this, then I don't see an issue with it.

Its also funny that you bring up the Statistcs of your Poll as well. In 4 days you have only gotten 150 odd votes on forum that you, yourself talked up as being so large that AEG would be stupid to not "infect", this seems incredibly small. The fact is your Title and several first posts here where part Whitch hunt part "FUD" in the like that you Bash Rollo for. Not that this isn't news and shouldn't be on the forum for us to suggest, but this is an almost a mirror image of the kind and way that Rollo would post ATI news (that like this I don't consider FUD). All of this and your delay in getting the Poll up has left it to the few people who actually made a second trip into this pooh flinging thread to vote. This remove d a large sample of people who reconized this thread for what is and therefore choose not to take any part in it. Your Poll, no matter how it would have turned out in an unbiased thread, as been invallidated and tainted.

 

[Pete]

It would be worlds more constructive to remove NV and even AEG from this discussion and focus simply on viral marketing. Yes, AEG and NV were the impetus for this topic, but bringing NV into it naturally draws ATI in as the opposite, and the discussion devolves into rather petty relativism as to who's worse.

The point, reinforced by the poll, is whether or not viral marketing is acceptable. Let's stick with that and leave the company and person hating out of it, as that only serves to obscure the issue. Getting sidetracked with personal attacks is exactly what caused the first thread to be locked and is diluting this one. (Besides, I can only take so many operatic and/or strawman attacks before I get nauseous. They're almost as bad as ten-line sigs. )

Back on topic, I'm not sure of the relevance of how long viral marketing has been around or how common it is. Ubiquity doesn't imply acceptability, legally or ethically.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
I don't see how a rational person argues as fervently as you do unless they're a.) a fanboy, or b.) have some other connection to the company .

Really? What's that make Apoppin' then? I'm guessing he has TRIPLE my post count on this subject. So is he a fanboy or an ATI employee by your logic?
Or could it be he's just a hobbyist with his own agenda?

He is a hobbyist offended by trolls and viral marketing on ATF. He has maybe 6x the post count of yours' in this thread because he is the OP and subject to personal attacks by trolls

Any little thing, no matter the issue, if it makes Nvidia look bad, you will take the opposite view.

Hmmm. How is this different than the people who do the same for any little thing that makes ATI look bad? Could it possibly be the case that hobbyists on forums argue for their favorite brands?! Gee, we've never seen anything like THAT before? :roll:

This time nVidia is making itself look bad and only a few dare to buck popular opinion [now] and defend them

Anything that ATI does that looks bad (often based on weakly supported conjecture), you will take up the torch and do the community service by bringing light to said issue. Your bias is pervasive beyond the point of obviousness!

It's pretty easy to be biased when the company your biased for is responsible for the return of SLI, the most feature rich gaming cards of the last generation, and the current high end champion?

but not proud when your company takes the low road ethically

-Parody the person and make baseless extrapolations of their post (check)
-Blow a point out of proportion, eg someone calling something bad or unethical gets stretched into a caricature by saying they called it evil (check)
-Throw in one (or more) knocks on ATI (check)

So what are your/friends tactics Jiffy?
1. Throw in references to purchase of 5800s to discredit poster. Check.
2. Hiss "biased". Check
3. Make speculative reference to unproven PR connection/tactics. Check

Get the picture?
[/quote]
Yes, you - Rollo - will do anything for your beloved company at the expense of disrupting the forums with personal attacks and FUD to make ATI look bad
:thumbsdown:

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
I don't see how a rational person argues as fervently as you do unless they're a.) a fanboy, or b.) have some other connection to the company .

Really? What's that make Apoppin' then? I'm guessing he has TRIPLE my post count on this subject. So is he a fanboy or an ATI employee by your logic?
Or could it be he's just a hobbyist with his own agenda?

Apoppin is an enthusiastic poster who IMO uses a few too many emoticons in his posts. That's about it- aside from saying he used ATI card the last I heard, he doesn't have a strong bias that colours the way he posts and I certainly wouldn't call him a fanboy (or maybe just a fanboy of video in general like most of us ).

What does the issue of number of posts matter to anything? I'm speaking of inherent biases and irrational positions, of which you outnumber the entire community!

Any little thing, no matter the issue, if it makes Nvidia look bad, you will take the opposite view.

Hmmm. How is this different than the people who do the same for any little thing that makes ATI look bad? Could it possibly be the case that hobbyists on forums argue for their favorite brands?! Gee, we've never seen anything like THAT before? :roll:

Aside from the evident ATI trolls (like M0rph), there's a difference when someone supports the opposite side of an argument as you and when they are a fanboy. Some hobbyists have favourite brands, others don't, and they simply go with what they feel is the best deal at the time. See outside your own little world, Rollo.

Anything that ATI does that looks bad (often based on weakly supported conjecture), you will take up the torch and do the community service by bringing light to said issue. Your bias is pervasive beyond the point of obviousness!

It's pretty easy to be biased when the company your biased for is responsible for the return of SLI, the most feature rich gaming cards of the last generation, and the current high end champion?

So you are saying that you are indeed biased but it is justified because they have brought back SLI, a feature that you like. There's no question that SLI is a great feature that is better to have than to not have, but that still doesn't mean you shouldn't keep an open mind. What if by January you can buy an X1800XT and a Crossfire X1800XT for a similar price to the 7800GTX and they outperform the GTX across the board by 25%? Would Crossfire be meaningless then?

-Parody the person and make baseless extrapolations of their post (check)
-Blow a point out of proportion, eg someone calling something bad or unethical gets stretched into a caricature by saying they called it evil (check)
-Throw in one (or more) knocks on ATI (check)

So what are your/friends tactics Jiffy?
1. Throw in references to purchase of 5800s to discredit poster. Check.
2. Hiss "biased". Check
3. Make speculative reference to unproven PR connection/tactics. Check

Get the picture?

1. Where did I throw in a reference of a 5800 Rollo? Last I checked, this is the first time the 5800 has been mentioned in this thread altogether!

2. You've got me on point #2. I've said you are biased for some time now, and I stick by my original sentiment. But the funny thing is you just proved it correct by saying that you're a fanboy in your post!! So although I'm calling bias on you, you're actually agreeing with my assesment. So where is the problem?

3. Please go into detail on what exactly you mean by your point #3. Your post only speaks in general terms and even interpreted in a certain way reflects very highly on me for taking the torch and running with it (thanks for the kudos ).

I can't even take full credit - I merely summarized what RobertR1 cannily pointed out: the AEG is real, Nvidia is one of their top customers. Based on what the speculated methods of the AEG are, Anandtech is a likely candidate for this type of marketing.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Pete
It would be worlds more constructive to remove NV and even AEG from this discussion and focus simply on viral marketing. Yes, AEG and NV were the impetus for this topic, but bringing NV into it naturally draws ATI in as the opposite, and the discussion devolves into rather petty relativism as to who's worse.

The point, reinforced by the poll, is whether or not viral marketing is acceptable. Let's stick with that and leave the company and person hating out of it, as that only serves to obscure the issue. Getting sidetracked with personal attacks is exactly what caused the first thread to be locked and is diluting this one. (Besides, I can only take so many operatic and/or strawman attacks before I get nauseous. They're almost as bad as ten-line sigs. )

Back on topic, I'm not sure of the relevance of how long viral marketing has been around or how common it is. Ubiquity doesn't imply acceptability, legally or ethically.

Can't agree with a just a discussion of "viral marketing in general" - start a thread in OT if you want that . . .

. . . this is Video and we are discussing nVidia's commitment to viral marketing to the point of actually searching for a Viral Marketing Manager in Internet Job Ads.

If anyone can point to ATI doing similar, i will be just as vocal and negative in condemning it! i don't hate nVidia . . . i said [over-and-over] i still would be pleased to have a 7800gtx in AGP in my rig . . .

it's nVidia's use of viral marketing on out forum that i take issue with . . . that all

As to the personal attacks, perhaps the Mod should step in with 'warnings' instead of locking this thread . . .

===================

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
I can't even take full credit - I merely summarized what RobertR1 cannily pointed out: the AEG is real, Nvidia is one of their top customers. Based on what the speculated methods of the AEG are, Anandtech is a likely candidate for this type of marketing.

From AEG's site, from MS Games recommendation of them:

While most PR agencies find it beneath them or a waste of their time to interact with the smallest fan site or the most remote online forum, Arbuthnot understands that these passionate fans are the ones that turn so-so titles into blockbusters. The slow and steady process of 'magnifying the mania' with these loyal fans is what Arbuthnot is all about, and they execute better than anyone in the business.

We are neither "remote" nor "small" . . . AEG is here.

 

[johnnqq]

Any little thing, no matter the issue, if it makes Nvidia look bad, you will take the opposite view.


Hmmm. How is this different than the people who do the same for any little thing that makes ATI look bad? Could it possibly be the case that hobbyists on forums argue for their favorite brands?! Gee, we've never seen anything like THAT before?

ROLLO YOU SAID IT YOURSELF! YOU ARE NVIDIA BIASED!! whatever...still, there's something just too "professional" about the way you speak on a...forum. why does any argument turn into something like this thread above?

 

[Markbnj]

your words:
quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
. . . so they put it in the hands of knowlegeable people hoping that they will agree and spread the word. That's all there is to it.

Uh, that was in reference to companies in general, but I can understand that it is tough to read in detail when you are typing so fast. I also think it was relatively obvious, even to the densely obtuse, that I was talking about what I perceive to be common practices, and not hinting at inside information from any specific company. But I do realize that the finer points of meaning, those with less impact than, say, a cinder block dropped from a second story window, will be lost on most of you here.

 

[michal1980]

this thread, not its topic, but most its posters, is why i never stick around computer forums, i don't see how you people do it,

so much fanboism, so much crap, and all full of lies, yellow journalism, and the biggest pissing contests ever seen, i thought the xbox forum at ign was bad with fanboi's, at least there they are 2 dumb to see it. here who knows what you guys do it for, your e-penis i geuss the only one that has a legimiate problem with it our the board owners, and there does not seem to be a big outcry from them.

 

[Munky]

If you were working for Nv - let's say you are the viral marketing manager - wouldnt you pick the strategy that has the best chances of succeding (ie. achieveing your marketing goal?). Your job is marketing, not spreading hardware reviews by independent 3rd parties, so if your job depended on it, wouldnt you use individuals that will most likely put the product in a favorable light, as opposed to, say, giving a fair and balanced opinion and possibly exposing some flaws in the product? And if such individuals were encouraged to give unbiased opinions then why the secrecy and the NDA? It makes no sence comparing this form of marketing to reviews at AT or other sites, because the goals of marketing are not the same as the goals of an unbiased review.