Poll: Atheist or Agnostic?

[TechBoyJK]

Originally posted by: BurnItDwn
I am a strict Atheist.

I see it this way

...Reasons to believe in a god...
If there is a god, and belief in such god is a requirement to have a good "afterlife" then it may seem more logical to believe.

...Reasons not to believe in god...
There are 6 senses, none detect the presense of said "god".
No Evidence.

So, the only reason to have belief in any god, at least that I am aware of, is really not a reason to "believe", it's a reason to desire or want to believe. I don't believe things just because I want to believe them. I believe things that are facts, I believe things that seem to fit logic. I don't believe things that would be nice to believe in, but don't present any real actual reasons beyond that.

I don't consider that to be "closed minded" as I gave several hours of thought into my decision to abstain from the Church back in 1988 when I was 8 years old.

I am playing the odds, I think that they are very strongly in my favor. Not that it makes any difference though.

You are crazy. OMG Crazy. How arrogant are you to even once, for a second, to think that in this universe, not just the reality of life as we perceive here on earth, but that in this universe, all things came to be out of some random occurance. I've come to the conclusion that anybody that believes, or even doubts in GOD, the supernatural essence of the creator, is simply a FOOL. The kind of fool that could tell you that they have money problems, and when you try to give them a gold brick, they turn it down. FOOLS!

The chance of this life as we know it coming to be, you know the little things like, family, love, hate, pleasure, pain, etc. .... the chance of these things coming to be, in a form that we comprehend and conciously enjoy, the chances are like a tornado ripping through a junkyard and by chance of random, managing to assemple a perfectly flyable, safe, 747 with a bling bling polish to it. Aint gonna happen. The chance of us somehow managing to find a way to communicate, via accepted language, across wires, using an accepted protocol, at damn near the speed of light, all while sitting something as random as a working computer, the chances of that computer coming to be without US is none, just as it is that we came to be without GOD. OF course computers started with a few rows a beads, but even that started with a creator, and it evolved to what it is now. However, it evolved with the help of man kind. Just as Humans have evolved (or mutated hehehe) with the outside assistance of GOD.

Life as we know it has been designed, and our creator gave us free will, simply so that we would not be robots and have the ability to conciously think for ourselves. This free will gives us a degree of seperation from GOD that allows God to relate to us. Without this seperation, we could never appreciate life for what it is, nor understand GOD for what it is.

AMEN.

 

[chrisms]

Originally posted by: shoegazer
atheist. agnostic seems like somewhat of a cop out. by saying i'm atheist i don't mean i'm positive there is no god. i'm not entirely sure about anything. but, i don't see any evidence for a god so i don't think there is one.

Agnostic:
1. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
2. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
2. One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.

You could be closer to agnostic than atheist

 

[angrycomputer]

Originally posted by: TechBoyJK

Originally posted by: BurnItDwn
I am a strict Atheist.

I see it this way

...Reasons to believe in a god...
If there is a god, and belief in such god is a requirement to have a good "afterlife" then it may seem more logical to believe.

...Reasons not to believe in god...
There are 6 senses, none detect the presense of said "god".
No Evidence.

So, the only reason to have belief in any god, at least that I am aware of, is really not a reason to "believe", it's a reason to desire or want to believe. I don't believe things just because I want to believe them. I believe things that are facts, I believe things that seem to fit logic. I don't believe things that would be nice to believe in, but don't present any real actual reasons beyond that.

I don't consider that to be "closed minded" as I gave several hours of thought into my decision to abstain from the Church back in 1988 when I was 8 years old.

I am playing the odds, I think that they are very strongly in my favor. Not that it makes any difference though.

You are crazy. OMG Crazy. How arrogant are you to even once, for a second, to think that in this universe, not just the reality of life as we perceive here on earth, but that in this universe, all things came to be out of some random occurance. I've come to the conclusion that anybody that believes, or even doubts in GOD, the supernatural essence of the creator, is simply a FOOL. The kind of fool that could tell you that they have money problems, and when you try to give them a gold brick, they turn it down. FOOLS!

The chance of this life as we know it coming to be, you know the little things like, family, love, hate, pleasure, pain, etc. .... the chance of these things coming to be, in a form that we comprehend and conciously enjoy, the chances are like a tornado ripping through a junkyard and by chance of random, managing to assemple a perfectly flyable, safe, 747 with a bling bling polish to it. Aint gonna happen. The chance of us somehow managing to find a way to communicate, via accepted language, across wires, using an accepted protocol, at damn near the speed of light, all while sitting something as random as a working computer, the chances are none.

Life as we know it has been designed, and our creator gave us free will, simply so that we would not be robots and have the ability to conciously think for ourselves. This free will gives us a degree of seperation from GOD that allows God to relate to us. Without this seperation, we could never appreciate life for what it is, nor understand GOD for what it is.

AMEN.

Thats my man right there. Go tech boy go tech boy Let this post fire up some quoted replies!

 

[shoegazer]

Originally posted by: chrisms

Agnostic:
1. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
2. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
2. One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.

You could be closer to agnostic than atheist

what's "true atheism"?

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
An agnostic is just an atheist without the courage of his convictions.

LOL.

You're joking right?

 

[n yusef]

Originally posted by: chambersc
catholic church killed people not christianity

=

guns don't kill people, dangerous minorities do.

BOTH TRUE!

OT
------------
I hope that's some attempt on sarcasm, because dangerous people do. Not just minorities.

And guns don't kill people, but a lot of them (the ones not made for hunting) are made with the sole purpose of shooting another human being with them.
------------
OT

On topic:
I would consider myself an agnostic, leaning to the existance of some higher being. I don't think that any of the religions around are accurate in their depictions of God, but I also doubt any of the other theories of how the universe was created. I also wonder that if their is a God, how was it created? Also, God has to be an idiot, if he does exist, as his design for humans is so bad (without saying anything about my political stances, look at the state of the world right now).

 

[Nebben]

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: chambersc
catholic church killed people not christianity

=

guns don't kill people, dangerous minorities do.

BOTH TRUE!

OT
------------
I hope that's some attempt on sarcasm, because dangerous people do. Not just minorities.

And guns don't kill people, but a lot of them (the ones not made for hunting) are made with the sole purpose of shooting another human being with them.
------------

I had the same reaction you did at first, but I think what he meant by 'minorities' was not a racial group, but a 'minority' as in certain types of people (murderers, molesters, etc) that are dangerous to society but are a 'minority' as they make up a small amount of the population.

 

[chrisms]

Originally posted by: shoegazer

Originally posted by: chrisms

Agnostic:
1. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
2. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
2. One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.

You could be closer to agnostic than atheist

what's "true atheism"?

I'm not that authority on that, but I would say that true atheism is the belief there there is without a doubt no god. Agnostics can lean one way or the other but admit in the end that we can't really know.

 

[SVT Cobra]

God and religion is a bunch of made up BS...no one created everything...look at the patterns right in front of your very eyes and apply them to a bigger scale and you will see...there is not a god...



I could go on and on about how here is no god and why i believe so..but it doesnt matter...people who believe in god will still believe in him and continue to call no believers ignorant....nothing against thme though..

 

[Nebben]

Originally posted by: Son of a N00b
God and religion is a bunch of made up BS...no one created everything...look at the patterns right in front of your very eyes and apply them to a bigger scale and you will see...there is not a god...

There's the wise and thoughtful stuff ATOT is made of!

Thanks for setting us straight, Son of a N00b.

 

[xSauronx]

Originally posted by: vshah
agnostic, because if you say you're atheist, you're almost required to argue it.

indeed, i tried arguing it with myself, too much trouble, and i didnt care anyway

 

[shoegazer]

Originally posted by: chrisms

Originally posted by: shoegazer

Originally posted by: chrisms

Agnostic:
1. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
2. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
2. One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.

You could be closer to agnostic than atheist

what's "true atheism"?

I'm not that authority on that, but I would say that true atheism is the belief there there is without a doubt no god. Agnostics can lean one way or the other but admit in the end that we can't really know.

even my very religous friends admit to me that they aren't completely sure there is a god. i don't think they're agnostic.

i'm as sure that there is no god as i am that there is gravity. but, there always has to be some doubt.

 

[TechBoyJK]

Originally posted by: Son of a N00b
God and religion is a bunch of made up BS...no one created everything...look at the patterns right in front of your very eyes and apply them to a bigger scale and you will see...there is not a god...



I could go on and on about how here is no god and why i believe so..but it doesnt matter...people who believe in god will still believe in him and continue to call no believers ignorant....nothing against thme though..

Trying to enjoy the real essence of God by trying to explain it in a religious sense is like trying to explain the natural beauty of the cheetah while looking at in when its in a cage. Set the essence of GOD in your mind free from the bounds of your negative associations to religion and you will release yourself from the bounds that make me say, YOuze a FOOL!

 

[hardwareuser]

You are crazy. OMG Crazy. How arrogant are you to even once, for a second, to think that in this universe, not just the reality of life as we perceive here on earth, but that in this universe, all things came to be out of some random occurance. I've come to the conclusion that anybody that believes, or even doubts in GOD, the supernatural essence of the creator, is simply a FOOL. The kind of fool that could tell you that they have money problems, and when you try to give them a gold brick, they turn it down. FOOLS!

This guy calls people crazy, all the while he's talking like a madman.

 

[SVT Cobra]

Originally posted by: Nebben

Originally posted by: Son of a N00b
God and religion is a bunch of made up BS...no one created everything...look at the patterns right in front of your very eyes and apply them to a bigger scale and you will see...there is not a god...

There's the wise and thoughtful stuff ATOT is made of!

Thanks for setting us straight, Son of a N00b.

np any time

seriously thats just me though...IMO god ws made up to understand things that we do not yet know...how can you laugh at the egyptians for thinking that there was a sun god (and it was he who really went baout the earth and rose and set, but we know better now) and then go believe in a god that created everyone (what we do not yet know).....

And no I am not a fool as someone stated....even without a religious sence...there is no omnipotent being....everything is explained by science...

*puts on flame suit*
god is the stupid mans excuse to everything


okay ill stop posting now....

 

[angrycomputer]

Originally posted by: Son of a N00b
God and religion is a bunch of made up BS...no one created everything...look at the patterns right in front of your very eyes and apply them to a bigger scale and you will see...there is not a god...



I could go on and on about how here is no god and why i believe so..but it doesnt matter...

No you couldnt go on an on about it. Your post is basically just telling us to agree with you and is of no help to this topic at all.

 

[SVT Cobra]

Originally posted by: angrycomputer

Originally posted by: Son of a N00b
God and religion is a bunch of made up BS...no one created everything...look at the patterns right in front of your very eyes and apply them to a bigger scale and you will see...there is not a god...



I could go on and on about how here is no god and why i believe so..but it doesnt matter...

No you couldnt go on an on about it. Your post is basically just telling us to agree with you and is of no help to this topic at all.

learn to quote first of all.....

second, i did not want to start a flame fest, as you are beggining to...

 

[Nebben]

Originally posted by: Son of a N00b

Originally posted by: angrycomputer

Originally posted by: Son of a N00b
God and religion is a bunch of made up BS...no one created everything...look at the patterns right in front of your very eyes and apply them to a bigger scale and you will see...there is not a god...



I could go on and on about how here is no god and why i believe so..but it doesnt matter...

No you couldnt go on an on about it. Your post is basically just telling us to agree with you and is of no help to this topic at all.

learn to quote first of all.....

second, i did not want to start a flame fest, as you are beggining to...

Let's not start a flame fest. I notice you edited your post, but the initial post was pretty much what he said it was. It seemed pretty arrogant.

I'm sure this thread will degenerate into "OmMG UR aN IDIOT" within the evening, since this is ATOT, after all. But let's get some discussion out of it while we can.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Originally posted by: TechBoyJK

You are crazy. OMG Crazy. How arrogant are you to even once, for a second, to think that in this universe, not just the reality of life as we perceive here on earth, but that in this universe, all things came to be out of some random occurance.

That isn't what an atheist necessarily believes, and nowhere in his post did he claim to believe it. You've set up a strawman.

I've come to the conclusion that anybody that believes, or even doubts in GOD, the supernatural essence of the creator, is simply a FOOL. The kind of fool that could tell you that they have money problems, and when you try to give them a gold brick, they turn it down. FOOLS!

I bet it helps you to believe that about people whose worldviews you cannot explain. It's always much easier to dismiss them out-of-hand than to confront the fact that the evidence of God simply isn't very convincing to a great many highly intelligent, knowledgeable people.

The chance of this life as we know it coming to be, you know the little things like, family, love, hate, pleasure, pain, etc. .... the chance of these things coming to be, in a form that we comprehend and conciously enjoy, the chances are like a tornado ripping through a junkyard and by chance of random, managing to assemple a perfectly flyable, safe, 747 with a bling bling polish to it.

Rhetorically that argument sounds really good, but as many times as I've seen it, I've never so much as once seen something that resembled substantiation of it. Wanna be the first? What, exactly, is the probability of "family, love, hate, pleasure, pain, etc ... coming to be." Tell us how you calculated those probabilities, and then do likewise for the proability of a tornado assemblig a 747 out of a junkyard. I wanna see how those probabilities actually compare.

Or are you just blowing smoke like everyone else I've ever heard use that argument?

Also, wanna bet that I can demosntrate the occurance of a sequence of events with a probability smaller than 1 in 10^6000 in the span of merely a day?

Aint gonna happen.

Says you. Lets see you put your money where your mouth is.

The chance of us somehow managing to find a way to communicate, via accepted language, across wires, using an accepted protocol, at damn near the speed of light, all while sitting something as random as a working computer, the chances are none.

Evidence? Proof? Bueller?

Anybody can make assertions like yours, but I know for a fact that they're not substantive.

Life as we know it has been designed, and our creator gave us free will, simply so that we would not be robots and have the ability to conciously think for ourselves. This free will gives us a degree of seperation from GOD that allows God to relate to us. Without this seperation, we could never appreciate life for what it is, nor understand GOD for what it is.

Please do not confuse your beliefs -- however honest and strong -- with objectively established and generally recognized facts.

 

[SVT Cobra]

Originally posted by: Nebben

Originally posted by: Son of a N00b

Originally posted by: angrycomputer

Originally posted by: Son of a N00b
God and religion is a bunch of made up BS...no one created everything...look at the patterns right in front of your very eyes and apply them to a bigger scale and you will see...there is not a god...



I could go on and on about how here is no god and why i believe so..but it doesnt matter...

No you couldnt go on an on about it. Your post is basically just telling us to agree with you and is of no help to this topic at all.

learn to quote first of all.....

second, i did not want to start a flame fest, as you are beggining to...

Let's not start a flame fest. I notice you edited your post, but the initial post was pretty much what he said it was. It seemed pretty arrogant.

I'm sure this thread will degenerate into "OmMG UR aN IDIOT" within the evening, since this is ATOT, after all. But let's get some discussion out of it while we can.

okay...you are correct

as i said i do not believe in any form of god, as i believe he was made up to explain things we do not know...god once used to be blamed for lighting and ocean storms...now we no god does not control that....why can one not assume that god does not control the creation of life, if he even exsists?

and for those who follow god becuase they need faith, like a death in the family, or living in a war zone ect...why can one not dig down and believe in himself and take matters into his own hands and deal with mentally himself, rather then praying to a "fictional" character

 

[hardwareuser]

noob, I think we probably think the same way about religion. I think it's for 2 things: manipulation, and comfort.

 

[Nightfall]

Agnostic here. Wasn't always agnostic though. My parents were protestant, and I went to a lot of summer bible school and sunday school as a kid. As I grew older, I read the bible and really had a lot of questions that no one could answer. I really started to have doubts, and eventually I became Agnostic.

It is impossible to rule out the existance of a God. However, I haven't seen such proof that God exists to this day. That is why I am agnostic.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

I think many in this thread are under some common misconceptions about the meanings of atheism and agnosticism. For example, they are not mutually exclusive with eachother, and agnosticism is not some "middle ground" or "third option" between atheism and theism. Atheism and theism form a perfect dichotomy, and likewise do gnosticism and agnosticism. With respect to eachother, the dichotomies are orthogonal. It is not only coherent, but more useful to talk about agnostic atheists, and agnostic or gnostic theists since this usage is more descriptive.

Also, contrary to what seems to be a popular opinion in here, the minimally sufficient criteria for qualification as an atheist is simply a lack of belief in God, not the inclusion of an affirmative belief that no God exists. Therefore, being an atheist does not incur some ridiculous burden to prove false a hypothesis which is prima facie unfalsifiable.

-Garth

 

[SVT Cobra]

Originally posted by: hardwareuser
noob, I think we probably think the same way about religion. I think it's for 2 things: manipulation, and comfort.

i'll remember to memorize that, that pretty much sums it up

 

[chambersc]

Originally posted by: Garth
I think many in this thread are under some common misconceptions about the meanings of atheism and agnosticism. For example, they are not mutually exclusive with eachother, and agnosticism is not some "middle ground" or "third option" between atheism and theism. Atheism and theism form a perfect dichotomy, and likewise do gnosticism and agnosticism. With respect to eachother, the dichotomies are orthogonal. It is not only coherent, but more useful to talk about agnostic atheists, and agnostic or gnostic theists since this usage is more descriptive.

Also, contrary to what seems to be a popular opinion in here, the minimally sufficient criteria for qualification as an atheist is simply a lack of belief in God, not the inclusion of an affirmative belief that no God exists. Therefore, being an atheist does not incur some ridiculous burden to prove false a hypothesis which is prima facie unfalsifiable.

-Garth

atheism, by its definition, says that one believes that there is a 0% chance of a God not "minimally sufficient criteria for qualification as an atheist is simply a lack of belief in God." your statement leaves the option that one believes somewhat (greater than 0%) in a god, which by the very definition of atheism isn't possible.