Poll: Biggest American (War) Cluster F?

[Bitek]

Vietnam, Korean war, Iraq war II?

Which war was the most pointless/waste of life/dubious mission?
I'm excluding both world wars, civil war, and misc 19th century wars, not within the scope.

Vietnam, socially disruptive, was brutal and bloody, but the country is relatively peaceful and prosperous.

Korea, also bloody, forgotten, and has left us NK. Deeply impoverished, hostile to it's neighbors, and nuclear armed. 60 years later and no resolution in sight.

Iraq. Expensive, bloody for civilians, but fairly safe for US soldiers. Has left us this mess, who knows where it goes.


Data for reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States_military_casualties_of_war

 

[MongGrel]

You've excluded most things that would be pertainent, so it's a bit of a pointless question.

 

[Bitek]

You've excluded most things that would be pertainent, so it's a bit of a pointless question.

It's open ended. You have to have some opinion...

 

[JEDIYoda]

Vietnam, Korean war, Iraq war II?

Which war was the most pointless/waste of life/dubious mission?
I'm excluding both world wars, civil war, and misc 19th century wars.

Vietnam, socially disruptive, was brutal and bloody, but the country is relatively peaceful and prosperous.

Korea, also bloody, forgotten, and has left us NK.

Iraq. Expensive, bloody for civilians, but fairly safe for US soldiers. Has left us this mess, who knows where it goes.


Data for reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States_military_casualties_of_war

You need to define cluster f.....for each military action...

 

[HTFOff]

From those three probably Korea. It was disastrous early on for us.

During Nam' American forces had a 10-1 k/d ratio.

Although America led the fight, we fought along side dozens of other countries in Iraq.

The insurgency in iraq was probably a walk in the park compared to the hordes of chinese/nk forces and the vietcong.

 

[bradley]

I'll just vote all of the above, which isn't an option.

 

[Bitek]

You need to define cluster f.....for each military action...

Damn guys, this isn't that complicated. Cluster f isn't a technical term.

If you need an expanded definition:
"Jesus, that didn't turn out as intended... Wish we could take that one back..."

They are all different wars with different failures. That is the point. On balance which one was the most screwed up, and for what reason?

 

[Bitek]

I'll just vote all of the above, which isn't an option.

That's cheating!

 

[Bitek]

From those three probably Korea. It was disastrous early on for us.

During Nam' American forces had a 10-1 k/d ratio.

Although America led the fight, we fought along side dozens of other countries in Iraq.

The insurgency in iraq was probably a walk in the park compared to the hordes of chinese/nk forces and the vietcong.

I'm inclined to agree, but Iraq may take some time to show it's full impact. It has been terribly expensive and politically disruptive, but has not inflicted the same scale of suffering.

Still living with the failures of Korea, but I imagine the avg American couldn't even give a recollection of what the war was about or its major actions.

Vietnam killed the most, but the conflict is the most settled, just not in our favor. It had been the most socially damaging, but I think that is being eclipsed.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Korea was a UN effort that was practically a world war when compared to the other two
Vietnam had 4 times as many SV fighting as Americans and only a couple of other countries involved
Outside of the US, Iraq was/is considered crazy, the worlds largest antiwar protests etc
Dozens of other countries involved but only with like 10 people

TIL India supported both sides in the Korean War, I wonder what the story is behind that

 

[TheSlamma]

Korea for sure.

Iraq is soon to be a nightmare again though.

Vietnam would have gone far better if that loser Johnson wasn't president. Air Force bomber pilots were mega pissed they were never given the green-light to hit Ho Chi Minh City, which they felt confident they could have. As HTF said we actually beat them really bad even in Tet 68, but Boomers actually knew how to protest back then (far better than this social media armchair attempt people make now)

 

[Attic]

Whatever is the most current, because we know better.

 

[ThatsABigOne]

Korean war as it set a precedence that US forces can leave the war zone when it is unstable.

 

[pcgeek11]

Korea. The war was won at the point when they had beaten North Korea to the upper part of the country. If they had of stopped there China would not have gotten involved.

Instead that big headed General MacArthur had to push all the way to the Chinese border...

 

[Thebobo]

Vietnam, Korean war, Iraq war II?

Which war was the most pointless/waste of life/dubious mission?
I'm excluding both world wars, civil war, and misc 19th century wars, not within the scope.

Vietnam, socially disruptive, was brutal and bloody, but the country is relatively peaceful and prosperous.

Korea, also bloody, forgotten, and has left us NK. Deeply impoverished, hostile to it's neighbors, and nuclear armed. 60 years later and no resolution in sight.

Iraq. Expensive, bloody for civilians, but fairly safe for US soldiers. Has left us this mess, who knows where it goes.

Data for reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States_military_casualties_of_war

Vietnam was pointless - other then we were there we cant claim any succusess to their current state.

Korea - coming of a WW11 high the military industrial complex wanted another conflict. - another waste.

Irag - biggest cluster F by far. Send bush rice and cheeny and the crew back

 

[nageov3t]

in terms of global impact, probably Iraq.

 

[Newell Steamer]

Hands down; Iraq 2.

We fucked up due to hubris, arrogance and pretending to bring democracy to Iraq. We were there for our own interests, no one else's. We made a bad situation (Sadam's reign) much worse AND we got our asses kicked.

Where as for Vietnam, they flat out kicked our asses.

 

[OutHouse]

im torn between Vietnam and Iraq.

i say vietnam for the 57,000 or so american soldiers who died and the untold many who who got wounded for no fucking reason.

i also say Iraq due to being lied to about WMD and going and destabilizing an entire region.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Iraq II, but Vietnam was a close 2nd.
We had absolutely no real justification to go into Iraq, a war based solely on lies, misdirection, misinformation and greed

 

[OutHouse]

Hands down; Iraq 2.

We fucked up due to hubris, arrogance and pretending to bring democracy to Iraq. We were there for our own interests, no one else's. We made a bad situation (Sadam's reign) much worse AND we got our asses kicked.

Where as for Vietnam, they flat out kicked our asses.

you failed at history didnt you.

 

[Zorba]

Vietnam was a cluster, but in general the country seems to be doing alright now. I think the ramifications of the cluster are going to be much higher from Iraq II, especially for Iraq and it's neighbors.

There was also at least some real justification for Vietnam, unlike Iraq II that was based on lies and made up reasons.

 

[glenn1]

Vietnam, since the U.S. had basically zero justification for involving itself and doing so was pointless from the get-go. Vietnam didn't threaten the U.S. in any way and we had no real strategic interests there, the idea of the "domino effect" was stupid then and it's stupid now. Iraq looks dumb in hindsight, but at least there was some uncertainty about whether Saddam had WMD and the ongoing no-fly zone fiasco after the Gulf War provided some semblance of reason to remove him from power.

 

[nageov3t]

Vietnam, since the U.S. had basically zero justification for involving itself and doing so was pointless from the get-go. Vietnam didn't threaten the U.S. in any way and we had no real strategic interests there, the idea of the "domino effect" was stupid then and it's stupid now. Iraq looks dumb in hindsight, but at least there was some uncertainty about whether Saddam had WMD and the ongoing no-fly zone fiasco after the Gulf War provided some semblance of reason to remove him from power.

I'd like to at least think that the people involved in getting us into Vietnam truly believed in the Domino Effect, as opposed to Iraq II where everyone important knew full well that they were misleading the public into war.

in terms of geopolitical impact, Vietnam seems pretty stable and self-contained. Iraq seems to have had the most impact by destabilizing the entire region and undermining US foreign policy (though Korea would leap to the forefront if they ever launched a nuke or something)

 

[soulcougher73]

Iraq/terrorism. Were dealing with a religious ideal and not a gov. military force. Cant win against ideals.

 

[Absolution75]

Went with Iraq II, this shit is going to last far longer then problems with Vietnam ever did. And on the whole, we don't hate Vietnam anymore/they don't hate us.