Poll: Creationism Trumps Evolution

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
I do not understand why Creationism and Evolution cannot co-exist...the historical accuracy of the Bible is extremely questionable, but the intent of the message contained within is certainly a nice set of guidelines for how to live one's life...and the same can be said for the scriptures, tomes and literature of every major religion.

Evolution provides an explanation for how humans and other species have evolved over millions of years, but evolution does not and currently cannot explain the origin...the true understanding of the origin of it all is still beyond the grasp of human science, and it is perhaps beyond the grasp of human comprehension.

This void...this origin...this unexplained, undocumented and intangible beginning...perhaps it is spiritual in nature, or at least suggests the existence of a higher being, even it is not necessarily the Christian God.

There is no reason why our society cannot accept and recognize evolution without denying the existence of God.

The problem is ine is based on science and te other is based on myth.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
I do not understand why Creationism and Evolution cannot co-exist...the historical accuracy of the Bible is extremely questionable, but the intent of the message contained within is certainly a nice set of guidelines for how to live one's life...and the same can be said for the scriptures, tomes and literature of every major religion.

Evolution provides an explanation for how humans and other species have evolved over millions of years, but evolution does not and currently cannot explain the origin...the true understanding of the origin of it all is still beyond the grasp of human science, and it is perhaps beyond the grasp of human comprehension.

This void...this origin...this unexplained, undocumented and intangible beginning...perhaps it is spiritual in nature, or at least suggests the existence of a higher being, even it is not necessarily the Christian God.

There is no reason why our society cannot accept and recognize evolution without denying the existence of God.

You're missing the point. Creationists distort the Bible as badly as bin Laden distorts Islam. The Bible wasn't meant to be used as literal timeframe of when events occurred. It's about the human condition and a search to live right by God (with some socio-economic influences thrown in.)

Creationists distort that into their agenda to disprove evolution. Note the rise of Creationism following Darwin's work.

 

[slurmsmackenzie]

in considering human evolution, what have humans done since documented history that coincides with the advancement of our species? we don't live based on necessity. we have the cognitive choice to proceed to our detriment if we so desire. so is a moral understanding of what we can and can't do in order to maintain a healthy coexistence with the rest of the world (or universe for that matter) essential? it must be. how else can you explain the fact that with all of our "advancements" (notwithstanding the fact that the human brain is less capable today than it was thousands of years ago) that we are on a self inflicted path to destruction that will come to fruition far sooner than any other dominant species? how is that evolving?

 

[Starbuck1975]

The problem is ine is based on science and te other is based on myth.

Both have a place in an enlightened society.

You're missing the point. Creationists distort the Bible as badly as bin Laden distorts Islam. The Bible wasn't meant to be used as literal timeframe of when events occurred. It's about the human condition and a search to live right by God (with some socio-economic influences thrown in.)

Creationists as an ideology certainly do just that, but it is quite possible to extract the themes from the Bible and believe in spirituality without necessary condemning or restricting science.

 

[imported_Sasha]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Isn't 67% about the same as the percentage who believe Iraq was connected to 9/11? Coincidence?

The majorical percentage of a group can be in agreement and still be wrong. Now, I am not saying in this case they are/not wrong, but I think this is an unworthy note to force down the thoats of those that do not agree with them.

I am currently living in what many call 'the south' and some of them have some strong feelings. In Cobb County, Georgia they want creationism to be in the classrom and evolution not. To me, I see no difference in their efforts than the terrorist training camps brainwashing their young.

Its all a timebomb. We should divide up the county into religios and scientific groups and part ways before the killing (of minds) goes any further.

 

[slurmsmackenzie]

Originally posted by: Sasha

Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Isn't 67% about the same as the percentage who believe Iraq was connected to 9/11? Coincidence?

The majorical percentage of a group can be in agreement and still be wrong. Now, I am not saying in this case they are/not wrong, but I think this is an unworthy note to force down the thoats of those that do not agree with them.

I am currently living in what many call 'the south' and some of them have some strong feelings. In Cobb County, Georgia they want creationism to be in the classrom and evolution not. To me, I see no difference in their efforts than the terrorist training camps brainwashing their young.

Its all a timebomb. We should divide up the county into religios and scientific groups and part ways before the killing (of minds) goes any further.

majorical isn't a word..... and they are split up, that's the problem. the two agendas..... not their reasonings are at odds. you can be a well educated scientist and still believe in God... unless the 15th century is back in full swing. one of the teachings of christianity is that God is bound by the rules he sets. therein lies his justice. so what is moral is also scientific. God isn't a wand waving slight of hand magician. he's the ultimate scientist. the entire universe is a process set in motion to allow for God's greatest creation, us. our solar system is unique. in what appears to be a turbulent, destuctive universe exists the setting for life, earth. while the actual center of the universe has changed with the increase in knowledge, the earth still remains the center as far as intellegent life. science???? our God given right as the only intellegent beings in the universe.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: daveshel
I'm not so sure this proves anything about ignorance, since the theory of evolution is still a theory. Moreover, it seems to me the most telling statistic would be the percentage that believes that God created the human race through the forces of evolution.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

The problem is ine is based on science and te other is based on myth.

Both have a place in an enlightened society.

True but that doesn't mean that you can marry a myth to scientific evidence. Well you can and those who support ID do but there is absolutely no evidence to support it.

 

[slurmsmackenzie]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

The problem is ine is based on science and te other is based on myth.

Both have a place in an enlightened society.

True but that doesn't mean that you can marry a myth to scientific evidence. Well you can and those who support ID do but there is absolutely no evidence to support it.

kinda like the big bang? where does "existence" start for you?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: slurmsmackenzie

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

The problem is ine is based on science and te other is based on myth.

Both have a place in an enlightened society.

True but that doesn't mean that you can marry a myth to scientific evidence. Well you can and those who support ID do but there is absolutely no evidence to support it.

kinda like the big bang? where does "existence" start for you?

I don't know and nobody else really does either. I can tell you how it doesn't start it, it doesn't start as depicted in the Bible.

 

[slurmsmackenzie]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: slurmsmackenzie

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

The problem is ine is based on science and te other is based on myth.

Both have a place in an enlightened society.

True but that doesn't mean that you can marry a myth to scientific evidence. Well you can and those who support ID do but there is absolutely no evidence to support it.

kinda like the big bang? where does "existence" start for you?

I don't know and nobody else really does either.

exactly

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: conjur
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories...polls/main657083.shtml

(CBS) Americans do not believe that humans evolved, and the vast majority says that even if they evolved, God guided the process. Just 13 percent say that God was not involved. But most would not substitute the teaching of creationism for the teaching of evolution in public schools.

Support for evolution is more heavily concentrated among those with more education and among those who attend religious services rarely or not at all.

There are also differences between voters who supported Kerry and those who supported Bush: 47 percent of John Kerry?s voters think God created humans as they are now, compared with 67 percent of Bush voters.

More proof that ignorance is bliss.

I weep for this nation.

Let's get down to the nitty gritty.

How many career geneticists can you find that support the theory of punctuated equilibrium?

 

[artikk]

Originally posted by: biostud

Originally posted by: IAteYourMother

Originally posted by: biostud
Who made the snake that lured Eve into eating the apple?

the snake was Satan

Did god create satan? If not where did satan origin?

He(Satan) was one of the high level angels before he was struck down to the earth by god.

Evolution is still a THEORY so it can't be used as a fact. :disgust: Before you flame all of the creationists get your FACTS straight. The probability of a creating a LIVING cell from amino acids using the primordial soup state is VERY LOW so one can't claim for life to be created randomly(remember very very low probability of life existing/being spontaneously created by itself/NATURE) without the help of the creator.(aka God)

Originally posted by: daveshel
I'm not so sure this proves anything about ignorance, since the theory of evolution is still a theory. Moreover, it seems to me the most telling statistic would be the percentage that believes that God created the human race through the forces of evolution.

:thumbsup:

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: piasabird
Evolution is statistically improbable. Prove Man evolved.

Just because some species became extinct is not an indication of evolution.

Today we have people who study genetics and want to do cloning. It is not too absurd to thing mankind or an intelligent being could create a person through intelligent design. Just think of God as a very smart geneticist. The words for create in the bible that create was interpreted from have a literal meaning which means "To Organize!"

You are right. When you look at individual mutations, evolution is highly improbable. The odds are much, much worse than winning Powerball, for example.......

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: russianpower
He(Satan) was one of the high level angels before he was struck down to the earth by god.

Pure allegory. Angels were titular names for the Jewish priests.

Evolution is still a THEORY so it can't be used as a fact. :disgust:

Say what? Honestly, do you do any research or are you being sarcastic here?

Before you flame all of the creationists get your FACTS straight. The probability of a creating a LIVING cell from amino acids using the primordial soup state is VERY LOW so one can't claim for life to be created randomly(remember very very low probability of life existing/being spontaneously created by itself/NATURE) without the help of the creator.(aka God)

Oh, you're serious on this, aren't you? "Because I can't explain how the first organic cell was formed it MUST have been because of God."


Wow.


:roll:

 

[artikk]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: russianpower

Before you flame all of the creationists get your FACTS straight. The probability of a creating a LIVING cell from amino acids using the primordial soup state is VERY LOW so one can't claim for life to be created randomly(remember very very low probability of life existing/being spontaneously created by itself/NATURE) without the help of the creator.(aka God)

Oh, you're serious on this, aren't you? "Because I can't explain how the first organic cell was formed it MUST have been because of God."


Wow.


:roll:

Abiogenesis: Well tell me then. Did science figure out how life was created? No. So don't tell me then that it was created randomly by nature.
Evolution: Evolution is still a theory backed up by some evidence. Hence the theory of evolution. A fact is something completely different and since evolution is still a theory it can't be judged as a fact.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: russianpower

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: russianpower
Before you flame all of the creationists get your FACTS straight. The probability of a creating a LIVING cell from amino acids using the primordial soup state is VERY LOW so one can't claim for life to be created randomly(remember very very low probability of life existing/being spontaneously created by itself/NATURE) without the help of the creator.(aka God)

Oh, you're serious on this, aren't you? "Because I can't explain how the first organic cell was formed it MUST have been because of God."


Wow.


:roll:

Abiogenesis: Well tell me then. Did science figure out how life was created? No. So don't tell me then that it was created randomly by nature.
Evolution: Evolution is still a theory backed up by some evidence. Hence the theory of evolution.

Bravo! You've managed to confuse evolution with abiogenesis despite copious amounts of information up here in this type of thread that clearly delineate the differences between the two.

And, again, you confuse the Theory of Evolution with the Facts of Evolution. Evolution, itself, is a FACT. It's been proven through observation. The Theory involves the "how" of it. Evolution does NOT attempt to answer how life began. That is abiogenesis (and related to exobiology.)

 

[artikk]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: russianpower

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: russianpower
Before you flame all of the creationists get your FACTS straight. The probability of a creating a LIVING cell from amino acids using the primordial soup state is VERY LOW so one can't claim for life to be created randomly(remember very very low probability of life existing/being spontaneously created by itself/NATURE) without the help of the creator.(aka God)

Oh, you're serious on this, aren't you? "Because I can't explain how the first organic cell was formed it MUST have been because of God."


Wow.


:roll:

Abiogenesis: Well tell me then. Did science figure out how life was created? No. So don't tell me then that it was created randomly by nature.
Evolution: Evolution is still a theory backed up by some evidence. Hence the theory of evolution.

Bravo! You've managed to confuse evolution with abiogenesis despite copious amounts of information up here in this type of thread that clearly delineate the differences between the two.

And, again, you confuse the Theory of Evolution with the Facts of Evolution. Evolution, itself, is a FACT. It's been proven through observation. The Theory involves the "how" of it. Evolution does NOT attempt to answer how life began. That is abiogenesis (and related to exobiology.)

My apologies. :thumbsup:

 

[conjur]

Whew!

One down...42 million to go.

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: conjur
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories...polls/main657083.shtml

(CBS) Americans do not believe that humans evolved, and the vast majority says that even if they evolved, God guided the process. Just 13 percent say that God was not involved. But most would not substitute the teaching of creationism for the teaching of evolution in public schools.

Support for evolution is more heavily concentrated among those with more education and among those who attend religious services rarely or not at all.

There are also differences between voters who supported Kerry and those who supported Bush: 47 percent of John Kerry?s voters think God created humans as they are now, compared with 67 percent of Bush voters.

More proof that ignorance is bliss.

I weep for this nation.

Let's get down to the nitty gritty.

How many career geneticists can you find that support the theory of punctuated equilibrium?

If you chose to ignore this you're burying your head in the sand, not unlike all those whom you criticize. Palentologists and zooligists and geneticists cannot agree on this issue, and until someone comes up with a reasonable explanation, no educated person can comfortably accept evolution without an intelligent impetus.

 

[slash196]

If you believe evolution is wrong, chances are you don't fully understand it.

 

[MonkeyK]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: jlmadyson

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
I don't see how anyone can believe in creationism. If you think about it, particularly those who believe in God, the mere existence of God rules out his creating man. According to religious credo God is a perfect being. Man is an imperfect being. If God did create man, it means that either:

1) Man is perfect, or

2) God is not perfect as God could not create an imperfect being and maintain perfection, even willingly. If he did create imperfection he would himself have to be flawed in some way.

#1 seems highly doubtful, based on observation and, if #2 is true and he is flawed, it wouldn't seem that God is much of an actual God.

Some from the Great Books have argued something called Free Will?

Of course everyone has their own take on this.

I've read some of those arguments but they address only our imperfect thoughts, not our imperfect physical being. Babies are born deformed and retarded every single day in this world. Does a benevolent God intentionally cripple people or start them and not even allow them to be born? Or did God screw up genetics?

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
I don't see how anyone can believe in creationism. If you think about it, particularly those who believe in God, the mere existence of God rules out his creating man. According to religious credo God is a perfect being. Man is an imperfect being. If God did create man, it means that either:

1) Man is perfect, or

2) God is not perfect as God could not create an imperfect being and maintain perfection, even willingly. If he did create imperfection he would himself have to be flawed in some way.

Why can't God intentionally create an imperfect being? What's the logic behind #2, just out of curiosity?

The thinking behind it is that in order to be able to create imperfection you have to be able to think and/or act imperfectly. If a being can think or act imperfectly it is, by definition, an imperfect being itself.

To know if a created thing is imperfect you would have to know the creator's goal in creating that thing. A boat is a highly imperfect car.

 

[wchou]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
I do not understand why Creationism and Evolution cannot co-exist...the historical accuracy of the Bible is extremely questionable, but the intent of the message contained within is certainly a nice set of guidelines for how to live one's life...and the same can be said for the scriptures, tomes and literature of every major religion.

Evolution provides an explanation for how humans and other species have evolved over millions of years, but evolution does not and currently cannot explain the origin...the true understanding of the origin of it all is still beyond the grasp of human science, and it is perhaps beyond the grasp of human comprehension.

This void...this origin...this unexplained, undocumented and intangible beginning...perhaps it is spiritual in nature, or at least suggests the existence of a higher being, even it is not necessarily the Christian God.

There is no reason why our society cannot accept and recognize evolution without denying the existence of God.

They cannot coexist, just like apes and human cannot because one is much more intelligent then the others.
I believe everything just came by itself by mere chance just like with good luck and bad luck
No one made anything happen before we existed by believing so you are only fooling yourself otherwise. We are an evolved form of dinosaurs with smaller body and bigger brain
They never died, we are them they are us.
They only way they died is that life cease to exist, as long as their is a living organism alive even after some species extinction, evolution continue to evolve into another lifeform that is usually smarter, better looking and very adaptive to the environment.
Sounds scary doesn't it?

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: wchou

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
I do not understand why Creationism and Evolution cannot co-exist...the historical accuracy of the Bible is extremely questionable, but the intent of the message contained within is certainly a nice set of guidelines for how to live one's life...and the same can be said for the scriptures, tomes and literature of every major religion.

Evolution provides an explanation for how humans and other species have evolved over millions of years, but evolution does not and currently cannot explain the origin...the true understanding of the origin of it all is still beyond the grasp of human science, and it is perhaps beyond the grasp of human comprehension.

This void...this origin...this unexplained, undocumented and intangible beginning...perhaps it is spiritual in nature, or at least suggests the existence of a higher being, even it is not necessarily the Christian God.

There is no reason why our society cannot accept and recognize evolution without denying the existence of God.

They cannot coexist, just like apes and human cannot because one is much more intelligent then the others.
I believe everything just came by itself by mere chance just like with good luck and bad luck
No one made anything happen before we existed by believing so you are only fooling yourself otherwise. We are an evolved form of dinosaurs with smaller body and bigger brain
They never died, we are them they are us.
They only way they died is that life cease to exist, as long as their is a living organism alive even after some species extinction, evolution continue to evolve into another lifeform that is usually smarter, better looking and very adaptive to the environment.
Sounds scary doesn't it?

Well nobody could be better looking than you so we must be fully evolved .


Evolution does provide an understanding of the simple origin of life if not the answers themselves. Life on our planet very easily could have began without intelligent design but one cannot discount that posibility. I am not religous and therefore do not believe in any god, but I do believe in the Drake Equation. There are probably millions of intelligent beings beyond our planet that have the technolgy and ability to seed lifeless planets.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: conjur
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories...polls/main657083.shtml

(CBS) Americans do not believe that humans evolved, and the vast majority says that even if they evolved, God guided the process. Just 13 percent say that God was not involved. But most would not substitute the teaching of creationism for the teaching of evolution in public schools.

Support for evolution is more heavily concentrated among those with more education and among those who attend religious services rarely or not at all.

There are also differences between voters who supported Kerry and those who supported Bush: 47 percent of John Kerry?s voters think God created humans as they are now, compared with 67 percent of Bush voters.

More proof that ignorance is bliss.

I weep for this nation.

Let's get down to the nitty gritty.

How many career geneticists can you find that support the theory of punctuated equilibrium?

Next time I run into a career geneticist, I'll ask.

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: conjur
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories...polls/main657083.shtml

(CBS) Americans do not believe that humans evolved, and the vast majority says that even if they evolved, God guided the process. Just 13 percent say that God was not involved. But most would not substitute the teaching of creationism for the teaching of evolution in public schools.

Support for evolution is more heavily concentrated among those with more education and among those who attend religious services rarely or not at all.

There are also differences between voters who supported Kerry and those who supported Bush: 47 percent of John Kerry?s voters think God created humans as they are now, compared with 67 percent of Bush voters.

More proof that ignorance is bliss.

I weep for this nation.

Let's get down to the nitty gritty.

How many career geneticists can you find that support the theory of punctuated equilibrium?

Next time I run into a career geneticist, I'll ask.

Well, being as how genetics is really the key to whether all this evolution stuff is possible or not, and that PE is the key component of evolution which tries to explain all the dramatic sequences in the history of evolution, I'd say avoiding this issue or not reading up on it leaves you with *quite* a roadblock.

In fact, I would say it takes more faith to believe what you believe than for me to believe in God.

Do you know how precisely tuned each of the dozens of physical constants in the universe has to be to support life? The charges of subatomic particles, the ratio of helium to deuterium, the gravitational constant, etc... If any of these things were off by a tiny fraction, fusion wouldn't be able to form in the sun, or particles wouldn't be able to come together to form matter, or planets would never be able to congeal.

So what do you believe? That we won some sort of grand lottery, or that there's an Intelligent Creator?