Poll: Do you need a degree to be an official engineer?

[Adn4n]

Accountants have been replaced.

 

[TXHokie]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
IMO, a "Network Engineer" in IT is usually not a real engineer.

You're kidding right?

 

[Rudee]

Many Engineers here in Canada get iron rings when they graduate. I haven't taken mine off since it was put on back in 94 when I graduated with a degree in MechEng. I was quite proud that I went back to University after nearly a decade away from high school. I find it laughable the amount of people who call themselves "engineers" these days.

 

[IronWing]

I've worked with lots of Civils and a few Electrical and Mechanical Engineers. Most have PEs. The ones that don't go by Engineering Technician. The rules on who can call themselves engineers and who can't varies from state to state and field to field. My criteria for when I want to see a PE sign off is very simple: If the design fails, is the outcome unacceptable? If yes, I want to see a PE's stamp, if not, I don't care who designs it. Unacceptable in general: someone dies, someone gets maimed, someone goes to jail, something hugely expensive or irreplacable gets busted.

IMHO, the IT field is overdue for a shaking out wrt the term engineer. People are using IT infrastructure in ways that will trigger unacceptable outcomes should systems fail. In the medical field, there are certification requirements for IT systems affecting life support. IMHO, these should be designed by PEs willing to sign off, putting their professional reputations on the line w/ every job. Likewise financial systems software (the kind in the ATM and at the bank, not the kind on your desktop) should be designed and signed off by some form of PE.

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
For civil engineering: you don't really need a degree. If you work under a registered professional engineer for 6 years you can take the PE exam. But before that you have to take EIT (Engineer in Training) exam. An accredited degree just shaves 4 years off from that. This is in CA.

For other fields: the term "engineer" is so widely used... I don't really care anymore just as long as people with blue collar jobs don't call themselves "engineers", like "sanitary engineer".

Wouldn't you call a guy who works in construction a "blue collar worker"?

What if he's the engineer who designed the structure and gets his hands dirty as part of the job working on the project?

"blue collar worker" are the laborers. Construction management people are not blue collar workers, but they're not engineers either.

Engineer who designed the structure (engineer on record?) is responsible for the structural design of the building. Engineers don't go out to build these things.

 

[judasmachine]

Experience is still the best teacher.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
For civil engineering: you don't really need a degree. If you work under a registered professional engineer for 6 years you can take the PE exam. But before that you have to take EIT (Engineer in Training) exam. An accredited degree just shaves 4 years off from that. This is in CA.

For other fields: the term "engineer" is so widely used... I don't really care anymore just as long as people with blue collar jobs don't call themselves "engineers", like "sanitary engineer".

Wouldn't you call a guy who works in construction a "blue collar worker"?

What if he's the engineer who designed the structure and gets his hands dirty as part of the job working on the project?

"blue collar worker" are the laborers. Construction management people are not blue collar workers, but they're not engineers either.

Engineer who designed the structure (engineer on record?) is responsible for the structural design of the building. Engineers don't go out to build these things.

I think you'll find that in a lot of small firms that build upgrades to houses and such, you'll have someone who is the engineer and the foreman on the job. You won't find that on a huge skyscraper project, but if an architect founds his own home upgrade business, he's going to be heavily involved in all aspects of the construction.

 

[HomeAppraiser]

My father in law works for Parsons writing procedures and editing the engineer?s reports. He was a Navy non-com, has an A-1 nuclear certification, but never went to formal college for a degree. All of the other engineers have fancy letters at the end of their office door nameplates and on their reports. He says they know their field, but can?t write reports worth a damn. The company that contracted them spent tons of money and here the final product looks like it was written by a third grader.

Anyway, he went a head and ordered himself a new office door nameplate with CSE at the end. It took over a week before one of the other engineers asked him what CSE stood for. He told them Common Sense Engineer.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: TXHokie

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
IMO, a "Network Engineer" in IT is usually not a real engineer.

You're kidding right?

no

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: TXHokie

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
IMO, a "Network Engineer" in IT is usually not a real engineer.

You're kidding right?

Network engineers just do what the network architects tell them to do.

 

[imported_hscorpio]

Originally posted by: preslove
Engineering |= profession

To officially become a member of a professional body you are required to take a licensure examination and hold the required credentials. You are a "real" doctor because the AMA says you are a doctor; you are a real "lawyer" because the [insert state] Bar Association says you are a lawyer; and you are a "real" massage therapist because your state's licensing board says you are. AFAIK there are no engineering licensure qualifications, making it a general descriptor of a generalized field of work, not a profession. Therefore, there is no such thing as a "real" engineer. Any engineers making the claim have over-inflated images of themselves.

Your friends are "engineering snobs," not "real engineers."

Actually there is a similar licensing system in order to use the title Professional Engineer. It is against the law for someone to use the title & put P.E. after their name unless they have been licensed by a state board. This is mostly a safety & liability issue in disciplines where design failure can end up killing someone (bridges, buildings, power systems...)

Anyone can use the generic term "engineer" in their title but if they try to change it to "Professional Engineer" without actually being licensed they can face criminal charges.
Here's an example of what happens to people in california that claim to offer Professional Engineering services without a proper license.

CARDINELLE, ROBERT W.
Unlicensed
March 14, 2002: 2 years informal probation, $2,700 fine or 33 days in jail
The Board investigated four complaints that Robert W. Cardinelle was offering and practicing civil/structural engineering through companies he owned and operated named SECO (Structures, Environments Company, Inc.) and LoadsForces Company and that he was representing himself as a structural engineer. Cardinelle is not licensed by the Board.
On March 9, 2001, Cardinelle was charged with sixteen misdemeanor counts for practicing or offering to practice civil/structural engineering without legal authorization; for unlawfully representing himself as being able to practice civil/structural engineering; for willfully and unlawfully managing and conducting a business offering civil/structural engineering; and for unlawfully, knowingly, designedly, and fraudulently getting possession of money and property and obtaining labor and service of another, violations of Business and Professions Code §§6787(a), (f), and (g) and Penal Code §532(a).
On March 14, 2002, in the Superior Court for the County of Sacramento, Cardinelle entered a no contest plea to the misdemeanor charge of violating Business and Professions Code §16240 in that from on or about March 17 through August 6, 2000, he practiced, offered to practice, or advertised a business without holding a current and valid license. The other charges against Cardinelle were dismissed as part of the plea agreement. Cardinelle was placed on informal probation for two years with conditions. One condition requires him to pay fines and assessments to the court in the amount of $2700.00 or serve 33 days in jail.

 

[brjames]

My quick little rule for what makes a "real" engineer. Is the field you work in commonly taught in the engineering school of most universities? If its not, you're not. If it is, its possible to claim it, if you have enough experience to roughly equal what you can get out of one of those engineering degrees. You don't necessarily need the degree. Many of the people I work with at a major defense firm are engineers without having a degree. Of course, they were technicians at the company for about 10~15 years before they became an engineer, but that college degree is worth something =)


Also, I will second (or third or whatever) the notion that the PE is worthless for most forms of engineering. Yes, all you civil engineers have to get it, that doesn't mean that those of us who do interesting forms of engineering have to get it =P

 

[Engineer]

By the way, while I think that many "engineers" are grandfathered into the system without a degree (experience vs college), I don't think that the title transfers well from the grandfathering company to another company. A degreed engineer would have a much easier time obtaining an "engineering" position as an engineer than someone with experience only, IMO.

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: TXHokie

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
IMO, a "Network Engineer" in IT is usually not a real engineer.

You're kidding right?

Let me guess, you assembled a PC and now you're a "computer engineer", right?

 

[Aikouka]

An engineer is really just someone who can take a project in a certain field (i.e. whatever your designation is) and go from the start to the finish. Software Engineer is not equivalent to a Programmer. Programming is merely a subset of Software Engineering for example (although I think it's the most fun part ).

 

[animalia]

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: animalia

Originally posted by: 3NF
Again, the title doesn't matter - it's all about what you provide to society

Lawyers - :thumbsdown: - worthless

so you'd rather have your trial in the hands of the judge and jury only...with no lgal knowledge to defend yourself for something you did not do?

Sorry, but I have absolutely no respect for lawyers, politicians, the judicial system, etc., in any way whatsoever. I haven't been to court and I don't plan to go to court. I just live my life with one sense - "common sense". Seems to have kept me out of trouble for many years now.

Our government should be about geniocracy.

most politicians ARE in it for themselvse only, but some do truley care. Your common sense lifestle is a good one, but the problem is not everyone lives that way. So when there are murderers and thieves, lawyers are necessary to defend the innocent or prosecute the guilty.

 

[Mday]

look up the term professional engineer. nuff said.