Poll: God or science

[Jex]

Is this thread still going on? Man, how can you guys stand to hear/repeat the same arguments over and over? I said my piece and left it at that. Just agree to disagree already.

Edit: Awe crap! I just bumped the thread. Oh well, guess I'll go be mad at myself.

 

[DRDEATH]

RossGr,
Man, starts wars. Man, Kills. Man, makes biological weapons. Man, make nuclear bombs. Funny thing is The men doing these things never seem to think they are in the wrong... Hitler did NOT!

If you choose to beleive in the things of MAN. Go ahead I cant change your heart for you.

PCResources,

You do not KNOW what will happen when you die, nobody does, you have FAITH, you BELIEVE in something, that is ok, but you still don't KNOW.

I Do KNOW where I am going after death THANKS!

I am as defensive as you would be if someone told you 2+2= 5 You, KNOW it is 4. Much like,I know GOD DOES EXIST.

I'M sorry,YOU NoN-Believers ARE THE WEAKEST LINK!

GOODBYE!!!:Q

 

[PCResources]

<< I'M sorry,YOU NoN-Believers ARE THE WEAKEST LINK! >>



Hey, what happened with &quot;turn the other cheek&quot;?

I guess you will have to repent for that one, what a great religion, you can do whatever you like, if you are truly sorry then you are forgiven...

Patrick

 

[Jothaxe]

I dont want to get in the middle of the spirited conversation here, but just have a curious question to pose.

When I was younger (and still religious) I read the Bible extensively.

One of the Old Testament stories that I found a bit disturbing is about Jephthah. In Judges 11:30-31 he vows to sacrifice to Jehovah the next thing that walks through the door, so long as Jehovah gives him victory over the Ammonites.

How surprised was he when his daughter then walks in! The thing that always confused me is that God doesn't tell him to forget the vow, and Jephthah goes ahead and &quot;righteously&quot; sacrifices his daughter.

Maybe this would be fine if he was then considered a rash or foolish or evil man, but in the New Testament (Hebrews 11:32-33) he is praised along with the prophets for his righteousness!

This always bothered me when I was religious, because I didn't like the idea of a God that appreciated human sacrifice in any way.

In my opinion this and other OT stories paints the picture of a very wrathful, and bloodthirsty Jehovah. Since this time I have completely disowned the idea of the Christian Jehovah God, and this has put my conscious to rest on this story (and many others especially in the OT.)


The Question: for those who feel stongly that the Bible is infallible, how do you feel about this story, and the many other &quot;questionable&quot; stories like it in the Bible? Do you have any problems incorporating them into your beliefs, or do you suspend your disbelief with some of them?


I am genuinely curious about this, so please dont feel like you need to flame me because you think I am trying to stir up trouble. I dont want to argue, I just want to understand how you feel. Thanks for any answers!

-jothaxe

 

[DRDEATH]

This is My last Post... But good question.
Jephthah, Made the promise. HE KNEW a person would walk threw the door.


I do not understand the whole Bible. NoONE Can say they do in its Intirety.

Jephthahs, Daughter Did not suffer. She went straight to heaven!

Judges 1135) When he saw her, he tore his clothes and cried.&quot;OH! MY DAUGHTER! You have made me miserable and wretched, because I have made a vow to the Lord that I cannot break.&quot; (36) &quot;MY FATHER,&quot; she replied, &quot; you have given your word to the lord. Do to me just as you promised, now that the LORD has avenged you and your enemies, the ammorites.(37)But grant me this one request,&quot;she said. &quot; Give me two months to roam the hills and weep with my freinds, because I will never marry.&quot;

Now thats faith. She did it on her own free will. Had she not wanted to die for GOD generousity on the battle feild. She could have just not came home...

This is definatly something I dont understand. But, She went to heaven and I for one would rather be in heaven ANY DAY OF THE WEEK. Than be here. But that brings us back to Gods Plane for my life. When God wants me in heaven I will be there for eternaty.

ETERNALLY HAPPY!

Like Jephthahs Daughter.



He is Praised for Trusting and keeping his Promise to God. Exactly how GOD keeps his promise to US!

In the new testament, God says to not make sacrifices to him of any kind. Unless there denieing yourself of a sin you want to commit. Because. God Let His son be crucified. Jesus Died for ALL Sin's Of ALL MAN.

 

[MrPALCO]

<< The thing that always confused me is that God doesn't tell him to forget the vow, and Jephthah goes ahead and &quot;righteously&quot; sacrifices his daughter. >>



Does Life flow from Words or from the blood in the veins?

 

[PCResources]

<< Does Life flow from Words or from the blood in the veins? >>



Let's see, with complete silence and without reading Words you might be bored but still alive...

Without blood you would be stone dead...

So i guess it is pretty obvious to me...


Isn't it nice how religion can justify the murder of your own child, as long as you do it in the name of god the most horrible action is a justified...

I killed my daughter, but just because god told me to... off to the asylum with you buddy...

Patrick

 

[Jothaxe]

<< Does Life flow from Words or from the blood in the veins? >>



MrPALCO: I would prefer your honest feelings about my post, rather than just getting back a rhetorical question. I am a little bit disappointed

DRDEATH, thank you for your direct answer.

-jothaxe

 

[MrPALCO]

<< I am genuinely curious about this, so please dont feel like you need to flame me because you think I am trying to stir up trouble. I dont want to argue, I just want to understand how you feel. Thanks for any answers! >>





<< MrPALCO: I would prefer your honest feelings about my post, rather than just getting back a rhetorical question. I am a little bit disappointed :
( >>



Do you really want to know the full story about the tragedy of Jephthah,
or do you wish to remain angry and aloof from the sweet, innocent and kind God?

 

[Jothaxe]

<< Do you really want to know the full story about the tragedy of Jephthah,
or do you wish to remain angry and aloof from the sweet, innocent and kind God? >>



MrPALCO,

I simply asked for an explanation of your feelings. I do not think that I said anything that warranted your calling me &quot;angry and aloof.&quot; While &quot;aloof&quot; may be a fair characterisation since I have no dealings with any Jehovah type of god, I do not believe &quot;angry&quot; is accurate in any way. Actually, I am very much at peace with my beliefs, and have no animosity towards anybody's god.

It is fine if you would prefer not to answer the question I asked. I wholly respect that. But I specifically asked you not to resond again with a rhetorical question, and yet you have done so again.

Given this, I think I would prefer not to have any further discussion with you, at least regarding this subject. Thank you, and may your god bless you!

-jothaxe

 

[Netopia]

You people have completely crapped on Presence's thread, which was supposed to be a poll and not a discussion. Perhaps I will resurrect another strictly as a poll.

In the mean time, what if I pick &quot;Quantum God&quot;? If Hawkings can use &quot;Imaginary Time&quot; to make his theories of how the universe began work, or if others can theorize that there are infinite dimensions, or if others still theorize that entire new dimensions might be &quot;bubbling off&quot; of our dimensions, why is simply believing that God is the cause of everything any different? They are all pointing to an unknown, unprovable, eternal material as the center of all things. Why then is it implausible that I point to a known, unprovable, eternal immaterial spirit to be the center of all things.

My Vote=God

 

[Netopia]

It has also occurred to me that you can't say God and not science, as that would be like saying you believe in a Baker but not in baked goods. God is the Baker, science the study of the goods created by that baker. To some scientists, however, science is the study of how donuts came out of nowhere.

Joe

 

[ghetto buck]

Well it's interesting to see that even though like 80% of Americans &quot;SAY&quot; their Christians, DrDeath is in the vast minority on this board. But it's instances like this when true faith is tested, and all the &quot;fakes&quot; and CONFORMISTS are weeded out. Good job drdeath I agree with you completely.

EngineNr9
PCResources
and others (threads too long),

Eternity is a loooooooooooong time

 

[ghetto buck]

<< In the mean time, what if I pick &quot;Quantum God&quot;? If Hawkings can use &quot;Imaginary Time&quot; to make his theories of how the universe began work, or if others can theorize that there are infinite dimensions, or if others still theorize that entire new dimensions might be &quot;bubbling off&quot; of our dimensions, why is simply believing that God is the cause of everything any different? They are all pointing to an unknown, unprovable, eternal material as the center of all things. Why then is it implausible that I point to a known, unprovable, eternal immaterial spirit to be the center of all things.

My Vote=God >>



Right on my thoughts exactly. It ticks me off when people say &quot;so where did God come from? What do you mean he's just ALWAYS been here?&quot; And then they turn around and say &quot;there was this extremely dense cluster and then BANG, it was every planet and star&quot;. Well where did the big cluster come from?

Seems kinda hypocritical to me. One way or another you can't PROVE where it all came from. I wish I could show you harder evidence than the Bible. You have to read it, try your best to understand it and have some faith. Sure maybe no one has found Eden but no one has found &quot;the missing link (what a joke!) either&quot;

BTW Engine, explain to me why an aethiast such as yourself has a Satan avatar?

 

[PistachioByAzul]

BTW Engine, explain to me why an aethiast such as yourself has a Satan avatar?

Because Satan is my lord.

 

[PistachioByAzul]

Eternity is a loooooooooooong time

Ignorance is bliss, I almost envy it. You never have to question anything and just look to some mythical God who's conveniently completely relative to your own existance.

There is no hope for humanity if people cannot learn to see things outside of their own limited understandings, and never bother to challenge the unchallengable.