Poll: GT300 VS. HD5870

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: RussianSensation

Originally posted by: Astrallite
Reviewers focus so much on high AA/AF benchmarks, the 5870 might end up looking a LOT more competitive with GT300 simply due to reviewer convention. I say this because nvidia cards can take as much as a 30% hit in performance with 8xAA, whereas ATI this generation is under 10%.

More likely than not, NV will address 8AA performance with the new architecture. They must be aware that they are uncompetitive with their efficiency in that mode. Also, they have a great shot to up the memory bandwidth on their card which will help with 8AA as well.

I don't know, 8xAA is still not high on most people's radar. They're already spending a lot of effort on cuda and physix, at some point the die will simply get too big. I think that they'll settle for a decent lead at 4xAA and let ati fans claim that they're close at 8x.

 

[Schmide]

Originally posted by: ronnn
Kyle thinks gt300 is meaningless. A little exteme, but if true will be very hard on nvidia.

Defending Kyle. Must not ehhhhh

Originally posted by: Kyle_Bennett
I personally think that NVIDIA's GT300 will not see the light of a retail shelf for 4 to 6 months. Therefore it is my opinion that the GT300 is currently meaningless in this market place. Had the situation been different, I would have said exactly so.

A very contingent sentence based upon his opinion on when the GT300 sees the light of day and what the current market place is. Very different than saying flat out meaningless.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Schmide

Originally posted by: Kyle_Bennett
I personally think that NVIDIA's GT300 will not see the light of a retail shelf for 4 to 6 months. Therefore it is my opinion that the GT300 is currently meaningless in this market place. Had the situation been different, I would have said exactly so.

A very contingent sentence based upon his opinion on when the GT300 sees the light of day and what the current market place is. Very different than saying flat out meaningless.

Agreed, the caveat matters and was included for logical reason.

But really, if anyone other than Charlie was going to spin anti-NV on GT300 who would we put near the top of that list? Wasn't the "falling out" handled rather publicly over the rebadging situation this summer? With Kyle taking a rather public stand on it?

 

[ronnn]

Kyle has had many falling outs. But he does keep going.

edit: I guess the question is: are his sources within tsmc real and are they right?

 

[Genx87]

I am guessing ~295 performance for a single GPU. It may not be as fast as people want it to be due to them concentrating on GPGPU.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: ronnn
Kyle has had many falling outs. But he does keep going.

edit: I guess the question is: are his sources within tsmc real and are they right?

You talking about this:
http://www.hardforum.com/showp...34673723&postcount=388

With such classy prose, I can't see why anyone would question the validity of the claims. :laugh:

 

[Nemesis 1]

I couldn't vote . LOL A real card Vs. I none existant card. Which one is faster. Let me guess. The REAL one. NOT a HYPED CARD.

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: ronnn
Kyle has had many falling outs. But he does keep going.

edit: I guess the question is: are his sources within tsmc real and are they right?

You talking about this:
http://www.hardforum.com/showp...34673723&postcount=388

With such classy prose, I can't see why anyone would question the validity of the claims. :laugh:

I certainly question the validity, but to be honest I don't have any idea what his track record is. He does make me laugh, as he has a habit of just trashing things he doesn't like.

 

[Wreckage]

Based on an overall average of reviews. The HD5870 is roughly 18.4% faster than a GTX285. So a mere die shrink of the GTX285 could close that gap.

I believe the GT300 will be 40-50% faster overall than the 5870.

http://www.madshrimps.be/vbull...rformance-chart-66465/

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Based on an overall average of reviews. The HD5870 is roughly 18.4% faster than a GTX285. So a mere die shrink of the GTX285 could close that gap.

I believe the GT300 will be 40-50% faster overall than the 5870.

http://www.madshrimps.be/vbull...rformance-chart-66465/

Depending on the game and resolution, the 5870 can be much, much faster than the GTX285. I don't think a shrink is going to close the gap. The GT300 may be slower, it could be 3x as fast, we just don't know. Right now we're guessing on vaporware. Where is the part? I've seen everything from October to Q210 estimates...

 

[bryanW1995]

It looks like kyle was responding to an aggressive post by one of his members. I think that it is perfectly legitimate to say that gt300 doesn't matter atm. If we start seeing badass benchmarks or at least hear something out of santa clara that is stronger than "but, but, PHYSIX!!!" then gt300 could start becoming relevant. Until then we have wreckage's belief that gt300 will beat 5870 by 40-50% vs the certainty that 5870 kicks the crap out of gtx 285 and is highly competitive with gtx 295. Advantage ati.

edit: oh, and 18% is a little conservative wreckage, don't you think. I think that 30-40% is more realistic if you look at all sites.

 

[alcoholbob]

A little more than 18%...check out the Crysis numbers...

Based on this, 5870 is 44% faster than a stock GTX 285 with no AA, and 64% faster with 8xAA. (according to firingsquad, the SSC is 6.8% faster than the stock 285 running Crysis VH). Both tested on brand spanking new OS with zero apps installed, only video drivers, using Windows 7.

1920x1080 VH
GTX285 SSC 27.6fps
5870 37.3 fps
improvement: 44% faster than stock GTX 285.

8XAA
GTX285 SSC 21.9fps
5870 33.7fps
improvement: 64.4% faster than stock GTX 285.

GTX 285 SSC:
http://img188.imageshack.us/im.../285crysisaavsnoaa.jpg

stock 5870:
http://img24.imageshack.us/img...rysis1080noaavs8xa.jpg

Right now triple SLI 285 is only 35% faster than a 5870, so GT300 being 50% faster than the 5870--basically, the GTX380 would be as fast as FOUR GTX 285s.

The 8800GTX was nowhere near 7950X2 QUAD SLI.

 

[MODEL3]

The GTX280 (65nm 576mm2 600MHz) launched in Q2 2008.
Let's suppose that the GT300 will launch in Q1 2010.

What someone is logical to expect for a probable difference in performance per MHz between GT200 and GT300?

After that, what someone is logical to expect in the MHz department? (65nm, 55nm, 45nm, 40nm)

55nm 650MHz GTX285 is close to +10% perf. in relation with a 600MHz GTX280.

So, overall, what someone is logical to expect for a probable difference in performance between GT300 & 5870 with 4X AA and 16X AF?

These questions are rhetorical in nature.

 

[lopri]

@IDC: I think you're taking a strange way of thinking. Reading what you've posted in this thread, it seems to me you're taking Charlie and Kyle's ways and going a step further.

 

[OCGuy]

Well, he is predicting GT300 at the end of Jan '10. Others are saying before Xmas '09.


Not matter what happens, there are going to be many people eating crow one way or the other, and exposed for their biases. People are putting reputations out on the line, and it will be interesting to see what happens.

I still dont see a mass exodus of people sitting on 4XXX or GT200 to 5870, but I guess we will find out.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: Astrallite
A little more than 18%...check out the Crysis numbers...

18% is the number given using multiple games and review sites. On average that is what has been shown. Certainly you can cherry pick a game here or there. Some would even show less than 18%.

I did not generate the graph, but looking at the data it seems fairly accurate. The 5870 is on average maybe 20% faster give or take than the 285.

It's also worth noting that it is around 10% slower (on average) than the 295. So it did miss the crown by a smidgen.

I think it's best to look at a broad range of games and review sites when forming an opinion and that's what that graph does.

 

[lopri]

And I could never understand why people identify themselves with hardware companies.

 

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

18% is the number given using multiple games and review sites. On average that is what has been shown. Certainly you can cherry pick a game here or there. Some would even show less than 18%.

I did not generate the graph, but looking at the data it seems fairly accurate. The 5870 is on average maybe 20% faster give or take than the 285.

> 18% check out Firingsquad for example.

Fallout 3 2560x1600 4AA/16AF
5870 = 72.3 (+23%)
285 = 58.7

Call of Duty 5 2560x1600 4AA/16AF
5870 = 58.6 (+12%)
285 = 52.4

Crysis 2560x1600 4AA/8AF
5870 = 33.8 (+52%)
285 = 22.2

Far Cry 2 2560x1600 4AA/16AF
5870 = 47.8 (+23%)
285 = 39

STALKER: Clear Sky 2560x1600 8AF
5870 = 32.1 (+44%)
285 = 22.3

Left 4 Dead 2560x1600 4AA/16AF
5870 = 63 (+38%)
285 = 45.7

Resident Evil 5 2560x1600 4AA/16AF
5870 = 72.6 (+25%)
285 = 58.1

Batman: AA 2560x1600 8AF
5870 = 72.1 (+21%)
285 = 59.8

HAWX 2560x1600 4AA/8AF
5870 = 55 (+53%)
285 = 36

Wolfenstein 2560x1600 4AA/8AF
5870 = 54.6 (+11%)
285 = 49.4

Average: 30%

I bet with 8AA on, the difference would be more like 40-50%.

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: OCguy
Well, he is predicting GT300 at the end of Jan '10. Others are saying before Xmas '09.


Not matter what happens, there are going to be many people eating crow one way or the other, and exposed for their biases. People are putting reputations out on the line, and it will be interesting to see what happens.

I still dont see a mass exodus of people sitting on 4XXX or GT200 to 5870, but I guess we will find out.

I imagine there will be lots of leeway as what is readily available is often a moving definition. Many have predicted a very soft launch before christmas, but nothing to buy until well into the New Year.

Cards need to be available to have a mass exodus. Ati will be happy if they sell what they can make at a premium and absorb all the love during the windows 7 launch. The exodus may start after the launch. I hope so, as that would mean these new dx11 games give people a reason to put away the xbox.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: RussianSensation

> 18%[/b] check out Firingsquad for example.

Once again...... the graph i linked used several sites and games. Certainly you could cherrypick a site or game. But I would assume it would be more prudent to look beyond just 1 source. Having read through the 5870 thread and other threads on multiple forums, it looks like around 20% seems fairly accurate.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
I think it's best to look at a broad range of games and review sites when forming an opinion and that's what that graph does.

Although without the parameters of how this chart is made its pretty just one more "game benchmark" from madshrimps.

I'm much more intrigued with results like this http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6594/bf1920.png, although without additional games nor nVidia results at DX11 I just stay with my curiosity itch.

We are pretty much basing our expectations on DX10 (as it is the only one) performance, but DX11 performance will be much more interesting for the future, to see which company got their DX11 right.

 

[Nemesis 1]

I really don't understand this thread,

I assume that if the NV385 isn't launched by Jan . A simular poll between the ATI 6870 vs the NV 385 would be just as relavent as this one. Honestly these kinda threads are NV hype threads comparring non existant parts against real parts .

But it has been allowed so When the and IF the NV385 launches ATIs 6870 will be as relavent as this BS hype thread. Don't BUY the NV385 because ATIs soon to be launched 6870 slaps it silly. LOL this is a joke right? No responsiable enthusiast is falling for this BS hype on a product thats 6 months away.

 

[imported_Shaq]

Also the FS benchmarks were all at 2560 with 4AA in some cases. It would make more sense to bench at 1680 and 1920 and average the results because the vast majority of gamers have a 22" or 24" monitor. Just showing the highest resolutions and high levels of AA is trying to skew the results in favor of ATI. It is established that the 5870 is better with high AA and high resolutions. But does it really matter if a 285 gets 60 FPS and the 5870 gets 75 FPS in a certain game? They are both very playable. It comes down to cost and availability at that point and for some people power consumption and heat. The 285 can be found for $296 versus the $379 5870 if you can find it. That is 25% cheaper and about how much faster the 5870 is compared to the 285 at common resolutions.

 

[MODEL3]

Originally posted by: Shaq
Also the FS benchmarks were all at 2560 with 4AA in some cases. It would make more sense to bench at 1680 and 1920 and average the results because the vast majority of gamers have a 22" or 24" monitor. Just showing the highest resolutions and high levels of AA is trying to skew the results in favor of ATI. It is established that the 5870 is better with high AA and high resolutions. But does it really matter if a 285 gets 60 FPS and the 5870 gets 75 FPS in a certain game? They are both very playable. It comes down to cost and availability at that point and for some people power consumption and heat. The 285 can be found for $296 versus the $379 5870 if you can find it. That is 25% cheaper and about how much faster the 5870 is compared to the 285 at common resolutions.

I don't have a problem with 2560 res testing, although i would like 1920 testing also.
For this kind of cards 1680 testing (at launch) is not essential imo.

I don't like 8X AA testing because it favors ATI.
It's like if you want to favor NV, do test at 0X AA.
(of cource i prefer 8X AA testing than 0X AA testing)
The thing is 4X AA produce very good results and the difference between 4X AA and 0X AA is big imo but the difference between 8X AA and 4X AA is much smaller imo regarding quality perception.

---------------------------------------------------------
Regarding prices, you forgot $259 5850.

 

[MODEL3]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
I really don't understand this thread,

I assume that if the NV385 isn't launched by Jan . A simular poll between the ATI 6870 vs the NV 385 would be just as relavent as this one. Honestly these kinda threads are NV hype threads comparring non existant parts against real parts .

But it has been allowed so When the and IF the NV385 launches ATIs 6870 will be as relavent as this BS hype thread. Don't BUY the NV385 because ATIs soon to be launched 6870 slaps it silly. LOL this is a joke right? No responsiable enthusiast is falling for this BS hype on a product thats 6 months away.

I approached the whole topic from a theoritical point of view. (unless NV launch GT380 in Dec., which according to some sources is not very probable)

Sure, if NV launch in Q1 2010 and by the time NV has good avaliability for GT380 then at least something like a 5890 part will be near.